Mao Asada news

[bekalc]

In 2006, Mao would be TOO young to feel the pressure. China like their Gymnasts young for a reason. Mao had what it take to get a silver. Her PCS were quite good for a 15yo. Having said that, I don't think they would place her over Shizuka. Shizuka LP was absolutely stunning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Nqqm23xBY

She did a triple triple during warm up, just a few mins before she skated. She was quite consistent that whole week. I think she would/could bring it had she felt threatened.

I don't buy the whole too young to feel pressure thing. It really depends on the athlete. The Chinese age cheating was nothing new, they had a lot of headcase teams in the past though because they didn't compete their youngsters enough to see who could handle pressure and who couldn't.

 

[janetfan]

I don't buy the whole too young to feel pressure thing. It really depends on the athlete. The Chinese age cheating was nothing new, they had a lot of headcase teams in the past though because they didn't compete their youngsters enough to see who could handle pressure and who couldn't.

Kimmie Meisner might have benefited a little at '06 Worlds by not feeling as much pressure as some of the others.

Now imagine Kimmie was Japanese and the whole scenario feels a little different especially if Kimmie had been competing as well as Mao had that season.

For that matter, if Kimmie had been winning as much as Mao and was American the pressure would have been much greater.

To think that Mao, the prodigy and favorite of her nation would not have felt pressure had she qualified for Torino in '06 seems like hogwash to me. The pressure would have been similar to what Midori went through and maybe worse. I doubt that a 15 year old could have ignored it.

 

[rtureck]

For me, as a musician I identify more with how a skater moves and interprets the music. Character portrayals are nice but not as important as the blades on the ice, body line and rhythmic feel. The overall expression a skater projects it what matters the most.

OK from one Nagasu fan to another. What do you think is Mirai's artisitc development along the lines of blades on ice, body line rhythmic feel and over expression? And what is her future potential in this area?

Sochi is > 3 yrs away and the Mao vs Mirai talk has begun LOL fun

 

[Nadine]

Earlier today someone posted this exhibition piece of Mao Asada skating in 2008 (which I had never seen before) ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY7jXgLmAbM ~ OMG, I fell in love with it!!!!!!

This is not only the first exhibition piece of hers that I enjoy, but I personally consider it a true "masterpiece" in the vein of Katarina Witt & Carmen, Oksana Baiul & The Swan, Michelle Kwan & Salome, et al. Words fail me except to say that she & this program represent everything I love about skating, everything! In fact it instantly reminded me of Oksana Baiul skating to "The Hours Between Night & Day" (seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQSF0qU_tNo) and "Paquita" (click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pz6Zkbkhvs). Same body, playfulness, character, charm, line, beauty, and on & on & on & on.

I so wish Mao would incorporate this into a competitive piece (preferably this program "fit for the gods"), but it might not work as such, but she could try. Then again it seems to me her best skating, thus far, was in the 2007-2008 season, imho. I hope I'm wrong and she dazzles me with another program like the above, complete with that same character/style/playfulness/abandon!!!!!! Let herself go, feel the music, become one with the universe ~ fly Mao-chan, fly!

 

[Blades of Passion]

Amen. I can't believe anyone would suggest Mirai was better at 14, maybe Mirai had a bit more mature programs, but frankly Nagasu was lucky she got credit for her jumps at that Nationals, considering how her jumps were treated at the international events that year.

At the Nationals where Mirai was 14, she wasn't having serious jump problems. She did a complete 3Lutz-3Toe in the SP. It was the season after, when she was 15, when the big problems came.

So, yes, Mirai was better at 14 than Mao. Better speed, better edges, more fluidity, better extension, and more expression.

If Mirai had been properly coached from the start, I wonder if she would have had such a bad 2009 season. Considering how quickly Frank Carroll got her back on track, I'm guessing no. Her 2009 season probably would have amounted to her 2010 season and then instead of trying to rebuild in 2010 she would have been a serious contender and probably taken a medal at both Olympics and Worlds.

 

[bekalc]

At the Nationals where Mirai was 14, she wasn't having serious jump problems. She did a complete 3Lutz-3Toe in the SP. It was the season after, when she was 15, when the big problems came.

Thats not true. Take a look at how Mirai's jumps were treated that season. She was getting a TON of downgrades throughout the international season in the free skate. Its really questionable if an international caller was judging that event, if Flatt really would have won. Except for her first Junior Grand Prix event, where Mirai got just one downgrade. She got two or more downgrades at every event in the free skate, including the LA Open. I remember this because I was a fan and I was getting concerned.

 

[Olympia]

Earlier today someone posted this exhibition piece of Mao Asada skating in 2008 (which I had never seen before) ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY7jXgLmAbM ~ OMG, I fell in love with it!!!!!!

This is not only the first exhibition piece of hers that I enjoy, but I personally consider it a true "masterpiece" in the vein of Katarina Witt & Carmen, Oksana Baiul & The Swan, Michelle Kwan & Salome, et al. Words fail me except to say that she & this program represent everything I love about skating, everything! In fact it instantly reminded me of Oksana Baiul skating to "The Hours Between Night & Day" (seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQSF0qU_tNo) and "Paquita" (click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pz6Zkbkhvs). Same body, playfulness, character, charm, line, beauty, and on & on & on & on.

I so wish Mao would incorporate this into a competitive piece (preferably this program "fit for the gods"), but it might not work as such, but she could try. Then again it seems to me her best skating, thus far, was in the 2007-2008 season, imho. I hope I'm wrong and she dazzles me with another program like the above, complete with that same character/style/playfulness/abandon!!!!!! Let herself go, feel the music, become one with the universe ~ fly Mao-chan, fly!

I'd seen that program before (and also fallen in love with it), but when you made the link, of course I had to go back and watch it. As you say, playfulness, character, charm, line, beauty, and a representation of everything I love in skating as well. I do hope that you get your wish and she dazzles us this season with programs of this quality for her short and long programs, not just her exhibition. (You have seen this year's Chopin program, right?) Now that she's with Nobuo Sato, maybe it will come to pass. This girl is a diamond.

 

[Nadine]

Yes, I'm pretty sure I've seen all her competitive programs, except for her exhibition ones. I haven't been a fan of those...until now...this one I'm definitely a fan of! Oh, what I must have been missing not to have seen it when it first debuted.

Btw, I loved her "Nutcracker" program; it was age-appropriate and fit her like a glove, and her lyrical programs make me cry, especially "Claire de Lune". And when I heard the first notes of Liebestraum I'm almost cried, lol, seriously it was meant for Mao. Cannot wait to see this one.

But her 2008 exhibition piece is the first time Mao has ever moved me with that type of music. Now I can see that she is capable of skating to & becoming a more bravura type character, not just lyrical, she can do it all!!!!! *clapping*

And, yes, she most definitely is a diamond, just as Oksana Baiul was classified as one, as well as Carolina Kostner.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Take a look at how Mirai's jumps were treated that season. She was getting a TON of downgrades throughout the international season in the free skate. Except for her first Junior Grand Prix event, where Mirai got just one downgrade, she got two or more downgrades at every event in the free skate.

Two downgrades across both phases of competition is not "a ton of downgrades". And she only got 1 downgrade at both U.S. Nationals and her first Grand Prix event of the season.

Her only jump that was underrotated at Nationals was the second part of her 3Lutz-3Toe in the LP. The quality of her jumps were all equal or better than Mao's at that age.

In fact, let's look at the actual performances instead of just conjecturing. Here are both of their programs from their National Championships at 14 years old:

Mirai Nagasu SHORT PROGRAM

Mirai Nagasu LONG PROGRAM

---

Mao Asada SHORT PROGRAM

Mao Asada LONG PROGRAM

Asada has a much more severe flutz. She cheats both jumps of her 3Flip-3Toe combination. Her 3Axel is not good quality either - she is titled in the air, barely makes the 1/4 turn mark, and nearly touches the ice with the free foot on the landing. Mirai had a fall in the LP but Asada completely messed up one of her jumps as well (her first Triple Flip attempt is simply an overrotated Double Flip and she had to drop out of the landing).

So, actually, Asada wasn't jumping better than Mirai at this age. She executes 4 Triples, 2 underrotated Triples, and 1 Double Axel in her LP. Mirai executed 5 clean Triples, 1 underrotated Triple, and 1 Double Axel. Since 1 of Mao's triples was a 3Axel you can call them equal in terms of planned content, but then since Mao has a worse flutz than Mirai I'd say she would actually be scored a little lower overall for her jumps.

In EVERY other area of skating Mirai is better. More speed, better edges, better spins, better spirals, better footwork, better extension, more fluidity of body movement, superior expression.

Mirai got worse at 15 years of age, however, whereas Mao got better. That's where their careers diverge.

 

[feraina]

Mao's new tango SP (performed at S&Z's skating extravaganza for their wedding in Beijing)!
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjA0MDcyNDcy.html

She's only been practicing it for a very little while; she said until recently she had focusing mainly on jumps and other elements. Plus apparently the ice wasn't very good -- wet and slushy in the spot she fell, where a lot of the other skaters fell too.

I like her new SP, I think it has a lot of potential! I hope she gets it ready in time for the GP's.

 

[ballade]

Interesting
it doens't bother me who did better at the same age
the important thing for me is who does better at the same stage
Luckily, we will see that very soon

 

[Olympia]

Mirai got worse at 15 years of age, however, whereas Mao got better. That's where their careers diverge.

That's something that has impressed me about Mao. A lot of early stars lose a step as they mature and never quite recover. Mao is still a prodigious talent and is improving artistically and technically. Her staying power is one part of what makes me a fan. Not to take anything away from Mirai, who is wonderful, but there's something truly magnifique about Mao.

 

[seniorita]

I like both very much, I think they are my two fav current ladies, but I think I watch Mao as a more light skater and she looks effortless, she is like a dancing fairy, Mirai is graceful and has more powerful kind of skate, I dont find their style similar.

 

[janetfan]

That's something that has impressed me about Mao. A lot of early stars lose a step as they mature and never quite recover. Mao is still a prodigious talent and is improving artistically and technically. Her staying power is one part of what makes me a fan. Not to take anything away from Mirai, who is wonderful, but there's something truly magnifique about Mao.

I agree that there is something magical about Mao's skating and I think Mr Sato can make Mao even better if she stays with him........."if" being the key.

Let's see Mirai after another season or two with Frank Carroll. Once Frank has Mirai's jumps stabilized I think that is when the serious artistic developement will start to happen. For now it doesn't matter because Sochi is four seasons away and Mirai is a natural and charasmatic performer.

Was Mirai's "Carmen" as dramatic as some fans thought it should be?
To be honest it never entered my mind and just watching the energy and graceful movements Mirai showed was more than enough for me. In fact Mirai dazzled me the way she skated to that music.

BTW, whoever said Carmen was a 30 year old drepressed hag? They would be wrong!

 

[Nadine]

All this comparison between these two lovely skaters has really made me stop and think about what I would do if I were judging them objectively, which would be hard to do because I favor Mao moreso than I do Mirai.

That said, if each skated their very best, I would give it to Mao hands down due to technical difficulty. But everything else would basically tie. However, Mirai's natural effervescence and charm would probably make me give her slightly higher PCS marks. It all depends though on what Mao is doing, as she herself is more than capable of matching Mirai on the second mark, as seen in her lyrical programs, as well as her 2008 exhibition piece.

Such an interesting scenario though, as they are both ballerina type skaters versus the stockier type (whom always have to rely on their jumps to beat the former). Add Yuna Kim to the mix and imho she would win over both of them if everybody skated the exact number & type of jumps, et al. But if they had her jumps, hmmm, that's where it gets very very interesting. That's where performance truly comes into play, as each is more than capable of skating a masterpiece program, and that's where it gets subjective ~ whichever you prefer on that particular night, depending on the judge, no two are alike.

 

[seniorita]

I watched the GPF of 2005 this afterooon (i loved her orange dress, what a beauty and the Ex!), and was wondering how worse she could have skated or feel the pressure two months later in Torino?SHe didnt have pressure in GPF?

 

[janetfan]

I watched the GPF of 2005 this afterooon (i loved her orange dress, what a beauty and the Ex!), and was wondering how worse she could have skated or feel the pressure two months later in Torino?SHe didnt have pressure in GPF?

Why would she have much pressure at a GPF? For pete's sake even Sasha withstood the limited pressure of a GPF

You think the pressure at a GPF is in any conceivable way close to Olympic pressure - which builds and increases all season long? :think:
Maybe you should ask Midori what I am talking about :yes:

 

[seniorita]

Of course there is pressure, but what exactly would people and japan wait from her with miki and shizuka already there? She was not WC, she had won teb and gpf coming from juniors and there was the hype. Of course there is pressure but the younger you are the less the pressure and expectations, if you remember with what joy she skated sp lp and ex, I would love to see it repeated in torino. Take Brezina and Fernandez, their first Olys and they did much better than some oldies. Or Amodio as french champion

I mean she certainly had tones more pressure in Vancouver after a meltdown half season and she did great!

 

[janetfan]

Of course there is pressure, but what exactly would people and japan wait from her with miki and shizuka already there? She was not WC, she had won teb and gpf coming from juniors and there was the hype. Of course there is pressure but the younger you are the less the pressure and expectations, if you remember with what joy she skated sp lp and ex, I would love to see it repeated in torino. Take Brezina and Fernandez, their first Olys and they did much better than some oldies. Or Amodio as french champion

I mean she certainly had tones more pressure in Vancouver after a meltdown half season and she did great!

Ok, try this out for size. Do you think Joubert and Amodio had equal expectations and pressure in Vancouver?

What you said is really not true about Mao. She had a great season, beat Shiz and Miki and everybody. But all of Japan knew Mao would not be at the Olympics.

Now IF Mao had been eligible all year and had won the way she did she MOST CERTAINLY would have been a favorite in Torino.
It is OK to speculate but let's keep the facts straight.

If Mao had been eligible there would have been pressure on her not seen since Midori in '92.
Miki was gifted onto the '06 Natl team. Many thought Yukari deserved it. Japanese hopes were for one of their three of their girls to possibly medal. Shiz did not go to Torino as the favorite. Neither did Miki or Fumie.

If Mao had gone, after the season she had the pressure woud have been closer to what Yuna had this season. Don't forget no Japanese Lady had ever won before Shiz.

Maybe I am wrong but I remember the Midori/Kristi battle as one of the most hyped and pressurized in Olympic history.
I think 15 year old Mao, the absolute darling daughter of Japan would have faced impossible pressure had she been eligible for Torino. Others may feel differently. But don't say Mao was just another skater. She won all year and would have been expected to continue.

 

[FlattFan]

What you said is really not true about Mao. She had a great season, beat Shiz and Miki and everybody. But all of Japan knew Mao would not be at the Olympics.

There were talks about petitioning to get her on the Olympics team. She probably would have gone in place of Miki. Shizuka, a former world champion, and a late surge wouldn't stay home. Fumie won Japan nationals that year, multiple worlds medalist wouldn't stay home. Besides, Mao was too young. Young kids don't feel as much pressure. Comparing her to Midori is invalid. Midori was a former champion. Midori dominated the season up until the Olympics. Midori was hitting the triple Axel - triple toe combination the moment she arrived in Albertville. Midori was much older. Midori was competing alone. There weren't anyone that good on the team. Mao would have Shizuka, Fumie to share the burden.

Now IF Mao had been eligible all year and had won the way she did she MOST CERTAINLY would have been a favorite in Torino.
It is OK to speculate but let's keep the facts straight.

Yes, keep the fact straight. Don't confuse the Mao situation with the Midori situation.

Shiz did not go to Torino as the favorite. Neither did Miki or Fumie.

Shiz was the favorite the moment she landed in Torino. I remember watching something on TV even before the SP, they said watch out for Shizuka, she separated herself from the pack. The judges were so impressed by all of her practice sessions, she got a personal best in the SP with a shaky combo and a lip. They were ready to give it to her.

Maybe I am wrong but I remember the Midori/Kristi battle as one of the most hyped and pressurized in Olympic history.

I agree with this. Too bad both of them kinda fizzled out. They said Midori planned LP would rival any of the men's programs. She had the triple axel - triple toe, and triple lutz- triple toe planned in the LP, and 2 triple flips. That totally pwns Evan LP in 2010.