Mao Asada

[gotoschool]

Here is another fancam of Mao's SP at the Grand Prix Final:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjv9hF-UqC0

 

[gotoschool]

I think Mao just needs a vacation. Lol I'm shocked that she finished last but she's been through worse so it's not so bad. And her SP was still great even with the 1Lz.

I just hope Mao's health improves quickly. No one should have to skate with the illnesses she has had.

I really appreciate the support you have given to Mao in your posts, but I and many others do not think that Mao should have finished in last place. Mao was only 3/10 of a point lower than Gracie and I definitely think that Mao should have gotten a significantly higher score on her step sequence in the SP, but she didn't- Gracie did. That alone would have made the difference. Mao was also hit with not 1 but 2 ur calls in her SP, which seems extremely harsh- at the very least the 3 flip looked fine to me, while quite a few have commented on how the urs of other skaters with less height on the jumps were not called. To be honest, the whole combo looked beautiful just as the eurosport commentators said and her jumps to me are more beautiful that jumps with less height that get called rotated because of her erect posture, flow in and out, symmetry of rotation and flair of movement on exit. The scores are what they are and I know I can't change them, but I have grown weary of the extreme focus of rotation since it doesn't seem to me to be applied consistently and because all the other much more obvious qualities seem to be ignored.

If Mao had been focusing only on placements, she would have replaced the 3 lutz with the 3 loop and gone with the 3 flip and 2 loop and then she would have been in the medals even sick. Also though Mao had quite a few issues with her jumps mainly due to illness, I think that Mao's skating, expression, interpretation and steps in her long program were very beautiful and delivered with force and commitment and there were no glaring interruptions like falls or big pops, so I believe her PCS was also underscored relative to the competition, especially since she finished with only 4th place PCS in the LP. I won't say exactly where Mao should have finished but there were only 7 points separating Mao from 3rd place, and I definitely think she was given disadvantageous scoring.

Furthermore, Mao has never been given such huge increases in scores as many of the skaters In the Grand Prix Final 2015 were given between seasons even when her skating skills, expression, interpretation, artistry and quality of her jumps have noticeably improved. While I admit there was some really good performances, a couple of skaters in this competition have LP scores that have risen almost 20 or more points in one season for almost equally clean performances with only minor changes in base tech score.

Compare this to Mao's flat line increase in scores for obvious improvements:

Mao's Swan Lake LP at Worlds 2013. 134 with a double footed triple axel and a missed triple- 7 triples total one two footed

Mao's Sochi LP 142- Mao's score in her legendary Sochi LP that to me and many others looks like 8 triples ( though an edge call on the lutz), a triple axel, triple flip and loop, and an incredible step sequences that French and Russian world champions and multi- Olympic medalists called the performance of an Olympic champion. Almost 2.5 million views on her most viewed video of the performance. Yet, it only received 3rd place in the freeskate with 5th place PCS and 6th place GOE. In my view, despite there being some very good skates in the Grand Prix Final LP, Mao's skate should still have a considerably higher score than any skate in the competition. But, it doesn't.

This is effectively no increase in score despite obvious improvement in technique, skating skills, interpretation and artistry. Mao's Sochi LP is truly a performance that is an archetype of excellence, but where is the reward in score?

For those wishing to break out the unjust skating order argument, Mao's Worlds LP 2014 received a mere 138 and 11 points in tech deductions, while the 3A / 3F / 3L all initially received as high or higher GOE (both well over +1) than almost any jumps in the women's Grand Prix Final competition.

Mao has had some tough skates this season during her illnesses in the last two competitions (and one really good one), but if we compare her 2014 Sochi LP and Worlds LP to her best performances this season, it is easy to see that Mao is actually seeing a flat line or reduction in scores.

Mao's Madame Butterfly at the Japan Open, which is by far the most viewed women's freeskate this season on youtube, received less than 70 PCS which is almost a 3 point drop in PCS score compared to her Worlds LP in Japan in 2014 and about equal to her Sochi LP PCS, which is widely considered to be considerably deflated anyway. Then, there is Mao's Cup of China SP, by far the most viewed women's SPs this season on youtube, and her Grand Prix Final SP, both have lower PCS scores than her Worlds SP 2014 performance.

So, while those around Mao have benefited from huge increases in scores, Mao's scores are flat line or falling even when she gives great or very good performances and it is a process that has happened over repeated seasons even when she has had obvious improvements. To me, this indicates a double standard.

 

[gotoschool]

Someone posted this on youtube TSL's 2015 GPF Recap:

Mina Frolove 1 day ago
Regarding Mao, Tarasova during the event said that she has problems with acclimatization - on 3-4 day it strikes her bad and she cannot deal with it. Tarasova even addressed that issue but Mao's team do not believe in such a thing as acclimatization.


I was wondering if someone here who speaks Russian, can translate Tarasova's commentary on Mao's LP performance and confirm the acclimatization part.

I will tell you what I thought I understood, though my Russian needs improvement and I could be wrong about some of it. I can confirm that Tatianna said that when she worked with Mao she had difficulty with acclimatization from 2 to 8 days (seems kind of long) and that she didn't listen or respond as well and her performance level would drop a bit during this time. I believe Tatianna also said that the JSF's way of handling it caused her to stop working with them. I know that in another article I posted she said that she thought they made Mao practice too much between the SP and the LP at Vancouver when she wanted Mao to rest more. Tatianna thought this caused problems with Mao's endurance in the LP. She also said that she didn't want to assume responsibility for the performance of a skater when as a coach she couldn't control their practice schedules, so she said this was a reason she stopped working with Mao. The male commentator suggests that Mao should come to the competitions earlier despite the extra expense. They show a lot of concern for Mao in the performance.

But, they didn't realize that Mao had a stomach virus with symptoms including nausea, muscle aches, headaches, fever, chills and even more unpleasant symptoms.

Still, Mao's performance is my favorite to watch. I could watch her skate around the rink and do step sequences, spins and spirals all day. One good sign is that Mao's performance level improved a lot in the last few jumping passes and reached a nice climax in the step sequence with the perfectly timed spread eagle at the height of the soprano's note.

Her first year back after a year off, Mao has had prolonged illness while reworking the lutz edge, trying the most difficult layouts, learning new programs for the Ice, a new SP and LP with completely different styles and moods, and then learning a new version of Jupiter to perform in January while trying to satisfy such high expectations. I just wish Mao would take it a little easier on herself.

 

[petitebrie]

So, while those around Mao have benefited from huge increases in scores, Mao's scores are flat line or falling even when she gives great or very good performances and it is a process that has happened over repeated seasons even when she has had obvious improvements. To me, this indicates a double standard.

Another problem may be that the higher scores in PCS are now used for different skaters. Mao doesn't have that big of a PCS advantage anymore because there are other skaters that get the same marks as her (whether they deserve it or not). In her and e.g. Carolina Kostner's absence the highest marks had to go to someone else. Are the judges prepared to give Mao a 10.00 for skating skills when they have given 9.00 and 9.50 to skaters who arguably don't have as strong skating skills or interpretation, but have had the better SS of the current field? I think they'll probably – out of habit or in an attempt to be "fair" to the other skaters by not lowering their previous marks – give Mao the same marks as they used to, regardless of how she should be scored relative to other competitors.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Judges are weird with Mao. For great skates they give her relatively low PCS compared to others. But when she bombs, they give her a little boost by not "bombing" her PCS. For example, here at GPF:

A great Mao FS will get 69 PCS (too low). She bombed and still got 68 (pretty good, considering). It doesn't make sense to me1

 

[gotoschool]

Another problem may be that the higher scores in PCS are now used for different skaters. Mao doesn't have that big of a PCS advantage anymore because there are other skaters that get the same marks as her (whether they deserve it or not). In her and e.g. Carolina Kostner's absence the highest marks had to go to someone else. Are the judges prepared to give Mao a 10.00 for skating skills when they have given 9.00 and 9.50 to skaters who arguably don't have as strong skating skills or interpretation, but have had the better SS of the current field? I think they'll probably – out of habit or in an attempt to be "fair" to the other skaters by not lowering their previous marks – give Mao the same marks as they used to, regardless of how she should be scored relative to other competitors.

I understand your argument, but the PCS scores show that the big increase came with Mao's return not in her absence. At last year's Grand Prix final, Elizavetta had the top PCS score of 65, Elena a little under 64 and Ashley Wagner had 64. So, the highest marks did go to someone else, but they were considerably lower than Mao's.

Here are Elizavetta's skating skills scores: Skating Skills 8.25 8.00 8.25 8.00 7.75 8.25 8.00 8.75 8.00 no 9's at all.


Most of Ashley's increase in score in this Grand Prix LP 2015 came from an 8 point increase in PCS. While realizing that Evgenia should have some increase in PCS moving from Juniors to Seniors, her PCS rose 16 points between the Junior Grand Prix LP in 2014 and the Grand Prix Final LP 2015: from 56 to 72: a score that Mao has had only 1 time. I think Evgenia is a very good skater but I think that increase is far too large, though I think she is the rightful winner. However, I do think scores are very important because they often set precedents that are carried into subsequent competitions.

Mao did have a few 10's in her Worlds LP 2014. However, even with an outstanding performance of Madame Butterfly at the Japan Open her PCS advantage was only 1 point more than Ashley's LP skate at Skate Canada, and 1 point over Gracie's LP skate at Skate America, and 1 point over Elena and 2 points over Evgenia at Rostelecom. I think Mao should have had about a 5 point advantage over these skates for her Madame Butterfly performance at the Japan Open and about 6-7 point compared to Evgenia's at Rostelecom or Skate America. Interestingly, Mao's Madame Butterfly performance at the JO did have almost exactly a 5 point higher PCS score than Ashely's LP at the Grand Prix Final 2014. But now, Mao's Japan Open Madame Butterfly performance has a large PCS disadvantage, which I strongly disagree with especially since new precedents may have been set. Again, Mao has had prolonged illness, so she has faced a lot of issues with her LP since the Japan Open, so I can understand some drop in her PCS advantage, but I definitely don't think it should have turned into a significant disadvantage. Besides, PCS is supposed to measure different criteria, not just a tie to tech score. One of the reasons Maoe has lost so much is that skating skills were tied to tech scores in the LPs at the Grand Prix Final:

Mao's skating skills: Skating Skills 8.50 8.50 8.75 9.25 9.00 8.75 8.50 8.50 8.75 8.68
Ashley's skating skills Grand Prix Final 2015 LP: Skating Skills 8.75 8.75 8.75 8.75 9.25 7.75 9.25 9.00 8.50 8.82
Evgenia's skating skills: Skating Skills 8.75 9.00 9.00 8.50 9.25 9.25 9.25 8.75 9.50 9.04

Yet, Mao has better skating skills than either Ashley or Evgenia.

I disagree with the way Mao is scored and have for a long time, but I do hope that when Mao gets healthy and has better skates she will rewarded for it. Honestly, I just watch performances and decide which ones I like best. Scores aren't a criteria for whether I like a performance or not. Most of my favorite LPs didn't win the freeskate: Mao's Rach II Sochi LP, Mao's 2010 Worlds LP and Lu Chen's Rach II at Worlds 1996 are just some examples.

 

[YesWay]

gotoschool, I think part of what we're seing there is the effect of consistency on PCS (what many would call "reputation"). My pet theory is that judges see consistency as a sign of better skating skills, and maybe that's not an unreasonable concept.

If Mao skated clean at several competitions in a row, I think she'd get higher PCS. But she has not been in good health at recent competitions, and she continues to have problems with the Lutz etc. If she really cared to "play the game" she'd swap out the Lutz for a more reliable jump until it was "competition ready". But that wouldn't be Mao...!

 

[gotoschool]

gotoschool, I think part of what we're seing there is the effect of consistency on PCS (what many would call "reputation"). My pet theory is that judges see consistency as a sign of better skating skills, and maybe that's not an unreasonable concept.

If Mao skated clean at several competitions in a row, I think she'd get higher PCS. But she has not been in good health at recent competitions, and she continues to have problems with the Lutz etc. If she really cared to "play the game" she'd swap out the Lutz for a more reliable jump until it was "competition ready". But that wouldn't be Mao...!

I know a lot of people want to say Mao should go for it all, but I agree with swapping out the triple lutz with another jump like the triple salchow with the triple flip and loop or the triple loop to go with the triple flip / double loop in the SP. Mao seems to be a bit more comfortable with the triple lutz in the LP. I can't help but think that Mao wants to do what her hero, Midori Ito, did by doing the triple axel and triple lutz in the same program, but I think of her SP and LP as running a gauntlet twice that must make her nervous especially so sick her first season back. But, I think even Midori Ito didn't do both in the same program that many times or at least without much consistency. I can only think of the 1989 and 1990 Worlds LP, but I haven't seen that many of Midori's programs, so I maybe wrong.

Far beyond scores, I would like Mao to back off the tech content just a bit because her skating is so incredibly beautiful when she relaxes and releases her self to the music. It's so organic and genuine with so much variety of expression between her sophisticated and attractive jazz number with the fluid intricacy of her dance moves building into a high leg in her SP to the stately majesty of of her lavender wings soaring and diving through expectation and desperation with prima ballerina positions in Madame Butterfly. Even with the jumping mistakes, these and the beautiful triple axels are the parts of her SP and LP I remember the most. When it all comes together like at the Japan Open or the Cup of China - it's just incredible.

 

[daphenaxa]

I never understood Mao's PCS tbh. I think she was always low-balled. But I also think it comes down to speed. Since the judges don't take the time to mark each component separately and accurately they just give their kind of general mark and since she isn't among the fastest skaters, it is reflected in her skating skills. Of course there is more to ss than speed but hey... Then they use skating skills as the general mark and so it is reflected in all her other components.
In the GPF they gave her that score because they really were generous to everyone in PCS and also because she really was against pretty young skaters with quite low/medium SS so the difference was maybe more stunning, idk.

 

[gotoschool]

I never understood Mao's PCS tbh. I think she was always low-balled. But I also think it comes down to speed. Since the judges don't take the time to mark each component separately and accurately they just give their kind of general mark and since she isn't among the fastest skaters, it is reflected in her skating skills. Of course there is more to ss than speed but hey... Then they use skating skills as the general mark and so it is reflected in all her other components.
In the GPF they gave her that score because they really were generous to everyone in PCS and also because she really was against pretty young skaters with quite low/medium SS so the difference was maybe more stunning, idk.

These are my general impressions of why I like Mao's skating skills so much. I think she has really good speed, just the right amount, but she doesn't stress it because she doesn't pump her arms and shoulders and the rest of her body to generate it, so it comes across as if she is floating lightly and rapidly like a swan gliding quickly across an icy pond, which I love. It seems she uses really nice edges instead of a lot of body motion for speed. I think that comes through best in her step sequences where she maintains smooth flow of the blades over the ice instead of lifting her blades repeatedly to generate speed. I love the dynamic nature of Mao's step sequences as when she kindles up slowly then builds "fire," as in Rach II and this year's SP without seeming to work her upper body hard to do it. This combined with executing such impressive dance moves with such fluidity really gives an impression of great skating skills for me. She also sways her weight back and forth and does a fair amount of one legged skating which is impressive when combined with her flexibility because of ballet training. I noticed this a lot in Rach II and Nocturne. I have also noticed in Nocturne and other programs that she had a lot of intricate transitions and fewer straight crossovers.

I also notice how she sometimes seems to almost disappear in the corners of the rink in really wide arcs so that it seems that she will hit the boards then suddenly reappears as in her SP and LP this season. A fancam from highup of her Sochi LP was really impressive because she covered every corner of rink with her jump layout. I think this is one quality that gave her Sochi LP such a sense of epic grandeur and it demonstrates a great control of blades, edging and sense of space while skating. I also think the focus on straight line speed as opposed to the many other qualities of Mao's skating skills may come from the fact that the ISU is run by speed skaters. Personally, I think a considerable degree of speed is needed to get pleasure out of a performance, but I am very impressed with how Mao stresses many different facets of what I consider to be great skating, in addition to really good speed. It gives her skating great subtlety and sophistication.

 

[nolangoh]

I kind of buy the acclimatisation theory. Mao usually performed well in and around Japan. An illness during NHK and a long haul travelling from Japan to Spain is a heavy burden on her health, given that she might have just started to feel better after NHK.

 

[nolangoh]

The score at GPF this year is just...I don't even know what to say. Some said they gave super high scores because they initially gave a high score for Ashley so they have to boost the rest in order to make a 'reasonable' or 'clearer' gap between the skaters. And when I saw Evgenia got a 72 for PCS I was just...... Well I will just pretend it is a Christmas gift for everyone.

And I can't agree more with the peculiarity of Mao's scoring. Like at 2014 Worlds LP, the 3A looked exactly the same as the one in SP, yet it was somehow called UR and every judge gave a 0 GOE, I was like ***? It initially received more than 10 points but after a bunch of 'reviewing' or 'rescoring' (which I don't know if it should be allowed ). Mao should deserve undoubtedly a 9 for skating skills and interpretation and choreo from now on.

 

[nolangoh]

And the judges, or maybe it is the IJS that encourage the judges, at least I think so, to award skaters higher score with crazy transitions and unnecessary complex movements on the ice. We have Evgenia and Elena on the ladies side as examples, and we have Yuzuru and Javier on the men side as examples. DO NOT get me wrong, I love all of them, they had terrific performances, but I would just like them to like take a break in the middle to, you know, feel and reconnect to the music and let the music guide you, sometimes having a stationary or slow movement does not imply a lack in skating skills and transition, it is an artistic expression. The ISU should start reconsidering the rationale of judging.

 

[Shayuki]

Medvedeva got 67.81 at Rostelecom and that felt like underscoring compared to Radionova then, who received 68.78. Medvedeva's program in GPF was significantly better PCS-wise than her Rostelecom program. Maybe it should have been 70 or 71 instead, but it seriously would have zero effect on the standings so who cares?

About transitions, Hanyu's FS from the end of step sequence until the quad-triple combo was by far the most simple transition out of his, Fernandez's, Shoma's and Chan's FS skates. It of course is a calculated move in order to be able to do the long streak of difficult jumps afterwards but considering he received over 98 PCS despite this... It does sound wrong to say that they reward constant overly complex transitions.

 

[MaxSwagg]

Though I will say that she is slightly increasing in the SP. I think she's gotten 35s all season so far...

 

[gotoschool]

Though I will say that she is slightly increasing in the SP. I think she's gotten 35s all season so far...

Mao only got 34.6 in PCS in the Cup of China SP which I thought was quite low compared to other PCS scores and 32.7 at NHK, where she had a tough skate but did great on the 3F / 3L. But she shouldn't even have competed here because she was running a fever with sweat and very pale and weak, but had to to qualify for Nationals. Mao did get a 35 in the SP with that incredible triple axel. Then, illness struck before the LP even after she wasn't in the best of condition as the dark circles under her eyes showed in the SP.

Honestly though I don't think of Mao's programs in terms of scores. I can't put a numerical value on how they inspire me or give me such a profound sense of beauty, or make me sad when things don't go her way.

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that Mao's SP costume has leaned towards a lavender color like her Madame Butterfly and Nocturne costumes.

Here are beautiful HQ photos of Mao in her Madame Butterfly LP: http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/0a4bdb82bc25d831860f6a7067008438.jpg

http://d1udmfvw0p7cd2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/sp-jack-b-20151111.jpg

http://d1udmfvw0p7cd2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/sp-jack-a-20151111.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6NjUBWuQBvw/maxresdefault.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/91Z3en81hec/maxresdefault.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Alvh-Z4-bXY/maxresdefault.jpg

http://d1udmfvw0p7cd2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/sp-skate-b-20151108.jpg

Here is are beautiful HQ pictures of Mao in her SP http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9g7QBvma7...CA0JayM_0/s1600/MaoAsada_SP_Fotor_Collage.jpg

http://d1udmfvw0p7cd2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/sp-skate-a-20151107.jpg

http://d1udmfvw0p7cd2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/sp-skate-a-20151213.jpg

http://ww3.sinaimg.cn/large/0066nLNGgw1exrgzebzdoj311x1kwgwr.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XcIEj9l6FBU/maxresdefault.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/83/08/e9/8308e9a04efc0b019d6d3e299d67fec1.jpg

http://d1udmfvw0p7cd2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/sp-jack-c-20151128.jpg

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3773914/images/o-ASADA-MAO-facebook.jpg

http://d1udmfvw0p7cd2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/sp-skate-b-20151107.jpg

http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/large/c40c9639jw1exvsqsps99j20zb1i4hdt.jpg

 

[nolangoh]

Honestly though I don't think of Mao's programs in terms of scores. I can't put a numerical value on how they inspire me or give me such a profound sense of beauty, or make me sad when things don't go her way.

Absolutely, her beauty especially in Madama Butterfly program, is unquantifiable. The CCTV commentators said during her LP in China that she has created the effect "Her beauty has made people unable to breathe" (This is a chinese expression used to describe things that are so beautiful that is beyond description.)

 

[gotoschool]

Absolutely, her beauty especially in Madama Butterfly program, is unquantifiable. The CCTV commentators said during her LP in China that she has created the effect "Her beauty has made people unable to breathe" (This is a chinese expression used to describe things that are so beautiful that is beyond description.)

nolangoh. Mao's skating is breathlessly beautiful.

Here is a message posted by rosewood. (posted on Dec 18).
FB member saw Mao Asada today and said she seems relaxed and talking joyfully.
That's good to know! I'm quite relieved now.

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...her-biggest-weapon.95911/page-19#post-4658117 number 552

I am glad that Mao seems to be feeling better.

 

[Plumededragon]

nolangoh. Mao's skating is breathlessly beautiful.

Here is a message posted by rosewood. (posted on Dec 18).
FB member saw Mao Asada today and said she seems relaxed and talking joyfully.
That's good to know! I'm quite relieved now.

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...her-biggest-weapon.95911/page-19#post-4658117 number 552

I am glad that Mao seems to be feeling better.

Good! I want to see her on top health for Nationals. :agree: Between her and Satoko, it's going to be a great battle! (with Rika too, but Satoko will be her main rival for the title)

 

[YesWay]

Photos of Mao at the 2015 Grand Prix final

I have uploaded some photos I took of Mao at the Grand Prix final --> HERE

What a priviledge to see her skating in person, once again. Despite being unwell, and not at her best - she was still breathtakingly beautiful, elegant and graceful - more so than any other skater there, but of course that's no surprise. In my opinion, she's now the only ladies skater who cmbines such speed, skill and power... with mature sophistication, grace, elegance, subtlety etc.

And of course, the many triple axels we saw in practice and competition were magnificent - such a huge jump, uniquely impressive and beautiful. Still unmatched after all this time.

I hope you all like the photos.