Mao Asada

Barb · Sep 23, 2015

Meoima said:
My point is, realistically, when her jumps are borderline, there is high chance that judges will call her. So even if it's 1/4 under rotated to your eyes, judges will call her. So it doesn't matter if her fans say "it's not UR", if judges call it UR she will loose points.

To get over it, she needs to jump bigger, so big that judges have no chance to give her dubious calls. You don't think so?

Sadly this is the case, because she has reputation with UR among the judges. And I have checked many of her protocols, there are events it's not Shin Amano working as the tech specialists, other tech specialists were still very strict on her.

I think her team know all of this, that's what training is for. I don't think there is any panic yet. It's still early and Mao is a very hard worker so maybe she will make it. I am also excited to see her programs, because most programs from ladies of this season so far have been quite disappointing. I hope Mao will be the savior for that.

Well, yes, one thing is to say judges can or can not give a jump but it is different to say her jumps are always UR because prerotation, etc. We are not blind, Mao is not consistent with 3a, she sometimes ur but there are others very clearly fully rotated. And it is annoying to me that because she ur some jumps automatically everyone think she ur all her 3a. When judges validated her a 3a they are not being indulgent, she deserve it. So in your second post you are not saying something new for us, we know judges are super strict and she needs work harder. I simply don´t accept people say she ur all her jumps or that all of her previous ur called from judges are fair.

Meoima · Sep 23, 2015

@Gotoschool: I don't get why you are bringing back the past to contradict the current? I said she should have got the WR at Sochi and it has no conflict with the post in which I think her current jumps in practice are not "up there" compare to her best form at Saitama. :shrug:

And that her jumps are prone to get more preview and scrutiny from the tech panel? :scratch:
That is a sad fact, but she has to live up with it and there is no better way of overcoming it other than Mao executes her jumps better than herself before.

solani · Sep 23, 2015

I want to add that Mao should be competitive with UR and edge calls, she has been in 2013/14 and earlier. The score for 3L< in combination f.e. is not bad at all. If she doesn't get UR calls next season (that edge call on the lutz will stay ...) she'll be very very hard to beat.
And I also think that Mao would have won gold in Sochi if she wouldn't have messed up her SP. She had two very good programs, the tech content was insane and the performance in the FP was crazy-good. I don't remember ever seeing a performance at the Olympics with that kind of intensity. But if she would have been a medal contender at that point maybe her performance would have been more restrained ... and we wouldn't see her this season! :cheer:

KansaiPJ · Sep 23, 2015

Fellow Mao fans, I have extra tickets for the Japan Open and Carnival on Ice on October 3rd in Saitama. Not looking to profit. Will sell the tickets at face value (OR LESS!!). If you are near Saitama and would like to go to one or both events, please send me a private message. :biggrin:

inskate · Sep 23, 2015

Mao does not pre-rotate. A small (up to 1/4) skid is considered normal and most of the male skaters do it as well. Some (like Javier or Stephane) had/have even bigger "skids". From Wikipedia:

It is common for skaters to skid the forward take off edge, especially on double and triple Axels, rather than vaulting directly off a clean edge. The skid helps the blade grip the ice on the take off, and is considered an acceptable technique as long as the skid does not make the skater pre-rotate the jump or take off the back of the blade.

Pre-rotating happens when the skater's body starts to rotate before the blade leaves the ice (the blade 'skids' for more than 1/4 revolution, or the toepick is used as a 'pivot'). This often happens when the skater is swinging the free leg and right arm around (i.e. they stick out to the sides) while pivoting around the left foot (for a CCW skater). Visually, it looks as if the skater was jumping butt-first, tucking in before the blade leaves the ice. In a correctly executed Axel, the first half rotation should take place while the skater is in an open position, with a bit 'delayed' rotation.

I watched an old-ish (back from 2006 or so) ISU training video which showed (digitally drawn) ice tracings from "ideal" Axel, a common 3A, and a 3A with a big skid. The commentary was similar to the Wikipedia entry.

Here's Javi's 3A: http://imgur.com/SUHlGos
His skid is significantly bigger than Mao's - almost half a revolution.

Here's Plushy's 3A: http://imgur.com/BzbAqv9
His skid is 1/4 - the same as Mao (there was even a video comparison somewhere on YT, but I can't find it). Because he skated with great speed and power, the cloud of ice shavings and the ice tracing of the skid is very visible.

Here's 2A by Matthew Kessinger: http://www.dit.upm.es/~jantonio/personal/patinaje/images/dax3.avi
This was listed on a coach's website as "an excellent example of how you're supposed to step up into the jump". 1/4 skid. Amazing height. (Ironically enough, with the recent rules, I can actually see more 2As with no or minimal skid, because the speed out of jump is more valued than the height (as it's easier to tack on a 3T this way)).

Here's a comparison between Mao's 3A and one that was actually pre-rotated (pivoting on the blade + jump butt-first): http://imgur.com/c9wznzD
(In Evan's defense, he did fix his 3A somewhat for the 2010 Olympics, but even then it had a skid that was over 1/4 revolution).

It's not impossible to do a 3A with less tha 1/4 skid - but it's quite rare. Ilia Klimkin and Nobunari Oda (later in his career) had great ones. Sadly, they never got properly appreciated by the judges.

I think it's kind of unfair to expect Mao to jump better than men in order to have her 3A ratified.

ETA: I agree that her jumps in the recent clips aren't at her 100% yet, but they are in better form than at the same point in the pre-season in her recent competitive years. In 2013-14 season Sochi was the first time she even attempted 3-3 in her program, and 3A was somewhat unstable in the mid-season due to back pain.
None of the veteran ladies seem to be in 100% form yet, as is expected. They'll probably aim to peak towards the end of the season.

YesWay · Sep 23, 2015

inskate said:
I think it's kind of unfair to expect Mao to jump better than men in order to have her 3A ratified.

Yes - good points, well made, and backed by appropriate supporting evidence/examples.

inskate said:
ETA: I agree that her jumps in the recent clips aren't at her 100% yet, but they are in better form than at the same point in the pre-season in her recent competitive years. In 2013-14 season Sochi was the first time she even attempted 3-3 in her program, and 3A was somewhat unstable in the mid-season due to back pain.
None of the veteran ladies seem to be in 100% form yet, as is expected. They'll probably aim to peak towards the end of the season.

Yes - "peaking" is an important consideration, yet seems to be often forgotten in performance discussions.

IIRC, I once heard Arakawa talking about peaking - how she planned it, how her performance (and weight!) changed over the course of a competitive season etc. ie. For top athletes, "peaking" is not simply left to random chance - they try to work it so they peak at their most important competitions. (Not always successfully though, of course).

I think Mao is in great shape right now with respect to how early it is in the season - no worries at this point!

cohkaix · Sep 23, 2015

Meoima said:
....it has no conflict with the post in which I think her current jumps in practice are not "up there" compare to her best form at Saitama. And that her jumps are prone to get more preview and scrutiny from the tech panel? :scratch:
That is a sad fact, but she has to live up with it and there is no better way of overcoming it other than Mao executes her jumps better than herself before.

Though a long-term fan (and therefore admittedly biased to some extend), I rarely make a post here. But I think the discussion here has gone a little too far and been losing the focus. I wonder why no one bothers to look into what Mao has said regarding her choice of returning to competitions. Remember, she stated very clearly that her gaol for returning is to make it to the level/status/condition as she was at during World 14. The following is a rough translation of some key points of the most recent practice clip:

- Mao says now she's in the same condition as what she used to be at the same moment of previous seasons (i.e. similar pre-season condition).
- Mao says her goal now for the first competition is to have perfect performance
- Mao says she feels more comfortable/ relieved in that if she could return to the previous status/condition of World 14 (this is followed up by Akiko's comment: that's the highest level to reach)
- In the final comment, Mao says that once she took the time off, she has come to realize how much she couldn't get away without skating. But she also thinks it is necessary that she took the year off.

So, I don't think she has to live up with 'it', she has 'it' as a goal. And we have to remember, we are talking about Mao. Just as Akiko explained: that's the highest level within the current field of ladies' figure skating. But for Mao, that's her lowest standard and she definitely will aim to go beyond that. If the argument here has to be based on one or two successful/unsuccessful landed jumps in practices...okay, so let it be. And yes, like Daisuke's comment, things may fall apart, but it's her passion about skating (and hence setting a clear goal and keeping up with her own condition as such...) that should be honoured.

Franklin99 · Sep 23, 2015

cohkaix said:
Though a long-term fan (and therefore admittedly biased to some extend), I rarely make a post here. But I think the discussion here has gone a little too far and been losing the focus. I wonder why no one bothers to look into what Mao has said regarding her choice of returning to competitions. Remember, she stated very clearly that her gaol for returning is to make it to the level/status/condition as she was at during World 14. The following is a rough translation of some key points of the most recent practice clip:

- Mao says now she's in the same condition as what she used to be at the same moment of previous seasons (i.e. similar pre-season condition).
- Mao says her goal now for the first competition is to have perfect performance
- Mao says she feels more comfortable/ relieved in that if she could return to the previous status/condition of World 14 (this is followed up by Akiko's comment: that's the highest level to reach)
- In the final comment, Mao says that once she took the time off, she has come to realize how much she couldn't get away without skating. But she also thinks it is necessary that she took the year off.

So, I don't think she has to live up with 'it', she has 'it' as a goal. And we have to remember, we are talking about Mao. Just as Akiko explained: that's the highest level within the current field of ladies' figure skating. But for Mao, that's her lowest standard and she definitely will aim to go beyond that. If the argument here has to be based on one or two successful/unsuccessful landed jumps in practices...okay, so let it be. And yes, like Daisuke's comment, things may fall apart, but it's her passion about skating (and hence setting a clear goal and keeping up with her own condition as such...) that should be honoured.

roma · Sep 23, 2015

This is a Mao cheer thread. We all know there are people (incl coaches, controllers and judges) who will keep on putting her down. But no matter how many times they do that or no matter how many times she will fail, real fans of hers know she will keep on getting back up because she IS Mao Asada. We know she will keep on practicing and trying her best. Even during the times she said her goal was to win deep down we could see her real goal... and that is to be able to perform to the best of her ability. And when she does the score and protocols don't even matter afterwards. You'll know it by seeing that happy, beaming smile on her face that Mao fans would love to see more of.

With the goals she stated for returning, I am now very excited to see a renewed Mao. Don't want that excitement to be dragged down by all the negatives people say about her jumps coz she is not just about jumps. Her past competitive quad was a time of rebuilding and I thought even with her Sochi FS and Worlds performance, she hasn't skated to her true potential yet. I want her to be able to deliver both her pros the ways she wants to this season. Again, in the end the scores won't matter to me anymore so long as I can see that beaming smile again... a sign she knows she is satisfied with her performance.

Leonardo · Sep 23, 2015

roma said:
This is a Mao cheer thread. We all know there are people (incl coaches, controllers and judges) who will keep on putting her down.

Yes. People who are not Mao's fans and come here to comment only about urs and wrong edges, please go somewhere else. This is a Mao cheer thread, not the "My opinion on Mao's jumps: discussing urs and wrong edges to exhaustion" thread.

gotoschool · Sep 23, 2015

cohkaix said:
Though a long-term fan (and therefore admittedly biased to some extend), I rarely make a post here. But I think the discussion here has gone a little too far and been losing the focus. I wonder why no one bothers to look into what Mao has said regarding her choice of returning to competitions. Remember, she stated very clearly that her gaol for returning is to make it to the level/status/condition as she was at during World 14. The following is a rough translation of some key points of the most recent practice clip:

- Mao says now she's in the same condition as what she used to be at the same moment of previous seasons (i.e. similar pre-season condition).
- Mao says her goal now for the first competition is to have perfect performance
- Mao says she feels more comfortable/ relieved in that if she could return to the previous status/condition of World 14 (this is followed up by Akiko's comment: that's the highest level to reach)
- In the final comment, Mao says that once she took the time off, she has come to realize how much she couldn't get away without skating. But she also thinks it is necessary that she took the year off.

So, I don't think she has to live up with 'it', she has 'it' as a goal. And we have to remember, we are talking about Mao. Just as Akiko explained: that's the highest level within the current field of ladies' figure skating. But for Mao, that's her lowest standard and she definitely will aim to go beyond that. If the argument here has to be based on one or two successful/unsuccessful landed jumps in practices...okay, so let it be. And yes, like Daisuke's comment, things may fall apart, but it's her passion about skating (and hence setting a clear goal and keeping up with her own condition as such...) that should be honoured.

Thanks for the summary of Mao's recent goals / thoughts and of those close to her: Akiko and Daisuke, cohkaix. Here is a translation of the video clips you summarized. Thanks to rosewood for the translation. Great to see that Mao has a new found passion for skating.

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...her-beauty-is-her-biggest-weapon.95911/page-7 post 190

Analyzing alleged urs on instant replay never instilled me with any love for Mao's performances anyway. I ask politely and a little tongue and cheek, "Would the armchair tech specialist(s) visiting this thread for the main purpose of ur critique please lean back in his or her recliner and go to sleep?"

Franklin99 · Sep 23, 2015

gotoschool said:
Thanks for the summary of Mao's recent goals / thoughts and of those close to her: Akiko and Daisuke, cohkaix. Here is a translation of the video clips you translated. Thanks to rosewood for the translation. Great to see that Mao has a new found passion for skating.

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...her-beauty-is-her-biggest-weapon.95911/page-7 post 190

Analyzing urs on instant replay never instilled me with any love for Mao's performance anyway. I ask politely and a little tongue and cheek, "Would the armchair tech specialists visiting this thread for the main purpose of ur critique please lean back in their recliners and go to sleep?"

Thank you for posting a link to rosewood translation, gotoschool!

gotoschool · Sep 24, 2015

Your welcome Franklin99.

Happy Birthday Mao! To a wonderful woman who is beautiful inside and out. 25 on September 25. I hope your comeback fills you with all the satisfaction you are seeking in the new season and that your life outside the rink is everything you could ever dream. I am anticipating the inspiration from your new performances.