Marketing of FS

[iluvtodd]

Well, my husband definitely likes and appreciates figure skating. He may not follow the sport quite as much as I do, but he willingly accompanies me to local shows and competitions. He was the one who ordered tickets a year in advance for the 1998 Nationals in Philly. I never would have dreamt that he was that interested in going for that. The same is true for 2003 Worlds in Washington, DC. I never even suggested it - he was the one who did! From his point of view, it was a no brainer to attend the weekend parts of Skate America 2003 (Reading) and 2005 (Atlantic City), respectively.

 

[gio]

but I would still claim near 1/4 the adult men are gay (not a crticism or a complaint, just an observation).

And how do you know that? Have you asked every single men in the arena if he is gay or not?

 

[gio]

Figure Skating attracts a lot of women. More than men from what I've seen in the arena. (The group I go with are about 2/3 gals; 1/3 guys.) Haven't a clue about their preferences besides skating. Women are not that much attracted to Boxing but they seem to love Pro Wrestling. Cosi Fan Tutti?

However, one who goes to the arena for figure skating should take note that many many women are leaving it.

Joe

No Giuseppe, non fanno tutti cosi'!! Translate = no Joe, not all the people do like that!
to gsrossano - My professor of anthropology will say that the anglosaxon school is used to categorize everything!
For what I know I think that FS is loved or hated by all demographics (straight men and women, gay men and women, black and white, children and adults). There are no need to categorize!

 

[enlight78]

I agree with gio.:yes:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

No Giuseppe, non fanno tutti cosi'!! Translate = no Joe, not all the people do like that!

Grazia Giovani - I was under the impression that the Opera Cosi Fan Tutti refered to 'Women are like that".

Giuseppe

 

[gsrossano]

And how do you know that? Have you asked every single men in the arena if he is gay or not?

It's obviously, just a guess. duh!

 

[gsrossano]

For what I know I think that FS is loved or hated by all demographics (straight men and women, gay men and women, black and white, children and adults). There are no need to categorize!

For what I know, I think that FS is loved or hated by all demographics, but not equally well by all demographics.

And getting back to marketing, for marketing to be successful you have to know your demographic group and target it effectively. If you think that all demographic groupss have the exact same interest then you would market one way. If you think your group is skewed to one group or another, you market a different way. That's just the way they do it. So, yes, to market a product successfully marketing people do categorize. All the time.

I claim, if you look at who shows up at a comptition it is clear (to me) than not all demographic groups like figure skating equally well. Clearly TV thinks that figure skating is not appealing to 18-49 year old males and is cutting back on coverage of skating for that reason, and may get out of it entirely in a few years (See the PH's article on this subject).

 

[krenseby]

Yeap

For what I know, I think that FS is loved or hated by all demographics, but not equally well by all demographics.

And getting back to marketing, for marketing to be successful you have to know your demoraphic group and target it effectively. If you think that all demographic groupss have the exact same interest then you would market one way. If you think your group is skewed to one group or another, you market a different way. That's just the way they do it. So, yes, to market a product successfully marketing people do categorize. All the time.

I claim, if you look at who shows up at a comptition it is clear (to me) than not all demographic groups like figure skating equally well. Clearly TV thinks that figure skating is not appealing to 18-49 year old males and is cutting back on coverage of skating for that reason, and may get out of it entirely in a few years (See the PH's article on this subject).

Yeap, it's very clear that figure skating appeals more to ladies than men. After all, we've got two US ladies lined up for the GP final but no male single skaters at all. What could we do to get the American males more interested in figure skating?

 

[SeaniBu]

It is starting to sound like there is a lot of "opportunity" for single men to meet some ladies at these events. Odds are pretty good anyway, more men than women ratio and some of the guys there are only helping your odds. :agree:
Guys - hello - your chances of meeting some ladies here.:agree:

Bottom Line is I don't believe the gay men who happen to like figure skating are bringing the sport down and neither do any other stereotypes whom you will find in the arena. They and others are supporting the sport

Joe.

:agree: It is for "some reason" they decide to focus that aspect on FS - media / marketing. ??? It doesn't appear there are anymore of homosexual / heterosexual, visa versa, that the media and stereotype would have focus, but that likely is the same reasoning as "show tunes and theater."

Speed skating is a sportly sport. But no one watches it.

Yah, but come on, it's Speed skating sarcasm

Do you really believe it is gay men who are causing the decline in interest in figure skating?

I think it is more the prejudices and insecurities in the "potential viewer." The focus of the media also plays up on it making a "bad thing" for a macho man to ever like. The way they use FS in depicting stereotypes of homosexuality is almost slanderous to both the FS community and homosexuals themselves.

So are all the men / husbands or boyfriends who attend skating events there out of pressure or because they like skating?

Not that this comment isn't true - I believe it could be:agree: - but it reminded me of all the boys I heard yell, "I LOVE YOU SASHA!!!!" at COI. cute and surprising.

1)No costumes. Skaters would wear matching unitards akin to the uniform of speed skaters.
2)No music. Quarterbacks do not throw passes while Mozart echoes in the background.
3)Skaters would only do elements that show flexibility, strength, and jump technique. No choreography. In fact skaters would only be required to come out and do certain pre-assigned elements-jumps, spins, how well they control edge, number of rotations, etc. PCS would be gone. Pure TES.
4)All personal cutesy stuff would have to go; no stuffed animals, no roses, no kiss & cry, no crying fluff pieces.
5)Guys like Johnny Weir would be persuaded from competing. I’m not sure how that would be accomplished but, I’m sure the ensuing scuffle w/ the ACLU would be interesting to watch.

Wow that was extreme.

Automatic bonus points for any lady who has the guts to show up with (at least partially) free flowing hair (Tanith Belbin...) as opposed to that dreadful Cold War borderguard bun.

:agree: :agree: :agree:

Does anyone think the Scoreboard - and I am thinking at the event also - would help with popularity due to the "understanding, confirmation and definition" a scoreboard could provide? Would it increase viewers if their understanding was increased?

BTW, I think the stereotype will not be an issue in the future. Either by means of "social acceptance" or or buy understanding it is not really true as it is made out to be. Just like NASCAR getting over the "hillbilly," and computer users over the "nerd" associations.

 

[R.D.]

What could we do to get the American males more interested in figure skating?

You can't. I actually wish that the female FS fans (and male fans too) would just give this part up. There are ways to improve skating coverage and maybe even to get it promoted more but the solution is NOT to get more males watching. Actually, one way would be to show ONLY ladies competitors (since that's what we like to look at ) but we know that would 1) tick off the core audience and 2) probably wouldn't even work.

FS just isn't a "male" activity. That's the way it is and the way it's going to be. Before people jump on that statement let me clarify: I mean that FS isn't an activity that males typically would watch on TV. We need our football, basketball and baseball.

If FS fans REALLY wanted to cram skating down males' throats, they could arrange for a performance during a hockey game now how would THAT be received? see what I mean now?

 

[gsrossano]

If FS fans REALLY wanted to cram skating down males' throats, they could arrange for a performance during a hockey game now how would THAT be received? see what I mean now?

Occassionaly we have had figure skaters do an exhibition between periods at hockey games out here. It's rare, but it does happen.

And on to another thought.

Competition attendance is down.
TV viewership is down.
Show dates and attendance is down.
Competition-track membership in USFSA is flat.

Are these due to four different problems or one problem? A media buddy of mine several years back made the comment to me to the effect -- Michell Kwan is carrying all of skating on her back, and when she leaves the whole thing is going to collapse.

So, is it just a matter of one or two superstars to keep people's attention and distract them from the fact TV broadcast have always left a lot to be desired, and big events were never particularly user friendly on the audience, etc? Now without a superstar to prop it all up (and no way to manufacture one), each of the four problems above need to be tackled, and it's going to be hard.

 

[SeaniBu]

Hockey should have cheerleaders on figure skates

 

[Mathman]

If FS fans REALLY wanted to cram skating down males' throats, they could arrange for a performance during a hockey game now how would THAT be received? see what I mean now?

Didn't Kristi Yamaguchi perform between periods at a couple of the Carolina Hurricane's games?

On the subject of stereotypes, Kristi says that Bret Hedican (now her husband) "broke my stereotype of hockey players."

According to an article in People Magazine, "Yamaguchi, 27, admits that 'figure skaters have awful perceptions of hockey players,' (but) the 28-year-old Hedican is different -- clean-cut and soft-spoken."

So there you go. Clean-cut and soft-spoken is in, macho ape-man is out.

 

[gio]

You can't. I actually wish that the female FS fans (and male fans too) would just give this part up. There are ways to improve skating coverage and maybe even to get it promoted more but the solution is NOT to get more males watching. Actually, one way would be to show ONLY ladies competitors (since that's what we like to look at ) but we know that would 1) tick off the core audience and 2) probably wouldn't even work.

FS just isn't a "male" activity. That's the way it is and the way it's going to be. Before people jump on that statement let me clarify: I mean that FS isn't an activity that males typically would watch on TV. We need our football, basketball and baseball.

Perceptions change from country to country. Football and baseball don't even exist in Italy. In Italy to be macho you have to watch and play soccer. But in the USA soccer is perceived as a femenine sport. In Italy a lot of girls play basketball and they're not stereotyped as lesbians.
And you say that FS isn't a male activity. Do you think that Russians and Japanese think the same way? If it is like this in the USA, it doesn't mean it is the same in the whole world.

:disagree: with all stereotypes

 

[R.D.]

Hmm, I wasn't aware that Fs perform at select hockey games. But hockey in the US isn't exactly getting a large TV audience, either. Didn't the Stanley Cup games on NBC only get like a 2.5 rating or something?

I don't care for hockey myself, so I don't really care that much...

 

[Mathman]

So, is it just a matter of one or two superstars to keep people's attention and distract them from the fact TV broadcast have always left a lot to be desired, and big events were never particularly user friendly on the audience, etc? Now without a superstar to prop it all up (and no way to manufacture one), each of the four problems above need to be tackled, and it's going to be hard.

It's a huge task.

Over the last decade American figure skating fans have enjoyed a gigantic mega-star in Michelle Kwan. A riveting international rival in Irina Slutskaya. An exquisite loyal oppostition/heir apparent in Sasha Cohen. Still, all of that was not enough to prevent the festering of the four problems that GSR has listed above.

On the other hand, going back to GSRossano's first post on this thread, is it really the end of the world if figure skating coverage moves to the "new media" -- the Internet and specialty cable networks?

Of the four problems listed, I would put them in order of "No growth in participation," "show attendance down," "competition attendance down," with "TV viewership down" being the least worrisome.

 

[R.D.]

Perceptions change from country to country. Football and baseball don't even exist in Italy. In Italy to be macho you have to watch and play soccer. But in the USA soccer is perceived as a femenine sport. In Italy a lot of girls play basketball and they're not stereotyped as lesbians.
And you say that FS isn't a male activity. Do you think that Russians and Japanese think the same way? If it is like this in the USA, it doesn't mean it is the same in the whole world.

I'm referring to the States only when I say that. I don't know what it's like in other countries.

But you say soccer (football) is a "butch" sport in Italy (and I imagine in most of Europe as well). So I suppose there's also a standard of what sports boys and girls should play over there too?

 

[gio]

So I suppose there's also a standard of what sports boys and girls should play over there too?

There are, but much less (as what I've read and learned here) than in the USA!!

 

[R.D.]

Of the four problems listed, I would put them in order of "No growth in participation," "show attendance down," "competition attendance down," with "TV viewership down" being the least worrisome.

But can you really categorize all the problems? I think they all link to each other somehow. For example, watching skating on TV might help boost the attendance of a few competitions (or hurt it, depending on how you see it).

 

[R.D.]

There are, but much less (as what I've read and learned here) than in the USA!!

I guess what I should ask then is that if a boy should attempt to play a "girl's sport" or vice versa, will the person be ridiculed/made fun of? I know it sure happens here.