Marshalls on ABC

[kwanette]

ITA! Maybe, if he has the time, Denis could choreograph an exhibition routine for Johnny -- it could be good for both of them, and Denis could practice choreography for singles skaters without consequences if something proves to be non-CoP friendly.

G and P will be doing the Boston, Detroit, and Rochester COI shows. I assume, according to johnny's myspave comments, that they will be performing the "trio" number...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Shoot the Duck forwards, backwards and sideways should be banned. We used to do it as a game to knock over the others when coaches weren't looking. It just ain't difficult.

BTW. Did this silly exhibition get good TV ratings for a Saturday afternoon?

Joe

 

[iluvtodd]

BTW. Did this silly exhibition get good TV ratings for a Saturday afternoon?

Joe

I have no idea what ratings the show got, but it wasn't a silly exhibition to those of us who were fortunate enough to attend it. We were very pleased to attend a show in which we got to see all of the senior level US medalists (why can't TPTB at COI take a hint?) and several of the top junior medalists. I take issue with ABC for chacking so many of the participants (Alissa, Rena & John, Mirai, Ashley Wagner, Naomi & Themi ... , etc.). :disapp:

 

[twinsissv]

debdelilah, such an informative and extensive body of information. Thank you! I am especially intrigued at the occurrence of same gender attraction (in other species) in nature. I had no idea. This explains so much. It's a shame that this is not better understood and accepted by more people. Perhaps then we could learn to appreciate human diversity with less antagonism and hatred. Again...thank you. :yes:

 

[Hsuhs]

I assume, according to johnny's myspave comments, that they will be performing the "trio" number...

Oh I'd so love to see it performed live. Why doens't COI come to Europe? I'd go!

 

[R.D.]

didn't COI do Russia last year?

 

[Hsuhs]

I don't know. No?
I meant Benelux, Germany, prob GB.

 

[dutchherder]

That would depend on which play...and which members of the audience. But no, it's not just a latter day interpretation; it's part of the reason Oliver Cromwell had all the theatres in England closed when he came to power. Edward II by Christopher Marlowe is quite explicit in it's theme of homosexuality. The use of the name Ganymede in As You Like It is a classical reference to homosexuality--audience members would have picked up on that. There are also plays by Shakespeare's contemporaries that go further--like Galathea by John Lyly--in which two girls(played by boys) disguise themselves as boys to avoid being part of a sacrifice to Neptune, and while disguised, fall in love with each other. When they find that they are both girls, they are still in love with each other--in the resolution, Venus says that she is going to turn one of them into a guy(but keep in mind too, that all plays had to pass through censorship at this time; quick fixes at the end don't change the fact that the playwright chose to deal with these themes in the first place).


IJames I came to the throne in 1603 in England; he himself, though he had children with Queen Anne of Denmark, had a number of male lovers; he also loved theatre, and was the sponser of Shakespeare's company, which was called "The King's Men" during his reign. (It had been called "The Lord Chamberlain's Men" under Elizabeth).

I think many people use modern standards when attempting to determine the sexuality of famous men of the Renaissance. This is a mistake. Many intellectual men of the time period had intense relationships-- some sexual, some not-- with other intellectual men. Even if there was no actual sex involved, there was definitely a love relationship there. Women, by and large, were so repressed that they were not allowed to indulge in intellectual pursuits, which made a cerebral bond between man and woman highly unlikely. While a man might be physically attracted to a woman, he had to find mental stimulation elsewhere-- from a man!

 

[debdelilah]

I think many people use modern standards when attempting to determine the sexuality of famous men of the Renaissance. This is a mistake. Many intellectual men of the time period had intense relationships-- some sexual, some not-- with other intellectual men. Even if there was no actual sex involved, there was definitely a love relationship there. Women, by and large, were so repressed that they were not allowed to indulge in intellectual pursuits, which made a cerebral bond between man and woman highly unlikely. While a man might be physically attracted to a woman, he had to find mental stimulation elsewhere-- from a man!

Intellect and intellectual persuits are not the same thing; also, the androgyny of the period wasn't limited to men. This was the time of "passionate friendships" on the female side, too.
Conservatives of the time were worried both about women becoming too masculine(Hic Mulier) and about men becoming too feminine(Haec Vir) in essays written in the 1620s.

Back to skating though... sorry for diverting the thread.

 

[Mathman]

Thanks debdelilah and dutchherder for an interesting exchange of information and ideas.

 

[waxel]

One of the most annoying things Dick has ever said:

"That's a really difficult move, that back shoot the duck."

I have seen pre-juvs doing a back shoot the duck into a double lutz/double loop combo. Most prelims can do a good backward shoot the duck.

Didn't Johnny do anything else that impressed Dick!?

I think the point was that the line and extension of Johnny's position was exquisite and thus, difficult to achieve ... it is ludicrous to suggest a pre-juv skater could approach that kind of finesse.

Don't get why this comment annoyed you so significantly. Dick was highly complimentary of the program in general.

 

[Mathman]

One more question along these lines. Can most pre-juveniles do a double Lutz/double loop combination? What do they work on when they move up to intermediate?

 

[gkelly]

Can most pre-juveniles do a double Lutz/double loop combination?

No. The competition rules for prejuvenile allow a maximum of four different doubles, so very often the one that's missing, aside from the axel, is the lutz. Or the quality of the jumps is weak enough that double-double combinations are inconsistent and/or cheated.

It's a pretty standard combination at the juvenile level though. If a skater *can* do that combination well, they would probably do reasonably well competing at the juvenile level. Most of the 9- to 12-year-olds I see who have double lutzes and double-double combinations compete at the juvenile level.

Some might stay in pre-juvenile if 1) they're very young or got the doubles very quickly after starting lessons and want more experience before competing at a qualifying level, 2) they're already 13 and ineligible for juvenile anyway so they hold back until they're ready to move up to intermediate, or 3) their jumps are so much better than the rest of their skating that they wouldn't be competitive in juvenile. Or maybe 4) holding back to win medals so they can burst on the juvenile scene with a double axel already as well a year or two later instead of working their way up through the juvenile ranks.

That said, a serious prejuvenile skater is probably working on learning double lutz and double loop combinations, so they might be attempting double lutz-double loop at least in practice.

What do they work on when they move up to intermediate?

There's a very wide range of ability at the intermediate level. Some skaters pass the test as soon as they can, with only maybe two double jumps in their repertoire, and some can already do several triples . . . some barely passed the intermediate Moves in the Field test, and others have already passed the senior MITF.

 

[Mathman]

Thanks, gkelly. I am astonished that 9 to 12 year olds can routinely do a variety of double jumps.

 

[gkelly]

The serious competitors can.

Note that I said "Most of the 9- to 12-year-olds I see who have double lutzes and double-double combinations compete at the juvenile level" . . . not that most 9- to 12-year-olds that I see can do those jumps.

 

[IDLERACER]

This stuff is starting to show up on YouTube. Click HERE
​

 

[bibi]

actually, my brother is 10 years old and this year, he won sectional (in Québec) with double lutz-double loop-loop combination. He was pre juvenile and next year he's going to be competing as a juvenile.

 

[Mathman]

^ Go, Bro!