Men's Free Skate - Thurs, 18th 8pm EST | Page 66 | Golden Skate

Men's Free Skate - Thurs, 18th 8pm EST

I watched more of the comp.

Chan: Great edges and wonderful flow. I enjoyed the program. That has some dramas.

Re skating skills, I think that Koz, Chan, and Takahashi had the best edges and Koz the fastest. He was truly fab in his skating skills.

Re steps, I liked Dai's steps the best. They were very powerful, dynamic, and had great personality and appeal.

In terms of spins, certainly Lambi was the best. But Koz, Nob, and Chan were also pretty good.

Re jumps, I liked Plushy, Nob, Koz, and Chan (when he landed them). Johnny's jumps were all very beautiful. I feel that his 3A might have been bigger in the past. Yet, I am very impressed that he had all the combos.

Re artistry, Dai, hands down. His program was so rich! Steph was an eye candy looking like a prince. But his program had too many stumbles. Johnny was beautiful, but he might have been a little introverted at this time.

Re scores, I think that Lambi, Evan, and Chan were held up. I don't think that Lambi should have been placed 4th with those shaky landings and rather slow skating. Evan's PCS shouldn't have been that high, either. My dad knows nothing about skating but was commenting that Evan's skating was not beautiful despite the clean program. I think that he was getting at the arm flaring that he seemed to have found distracting.

I think that Johnny and Koz, esp Johnny, were undermarked. A possible explanation is that Johnny's skating might look a bit small. I have a similar impression on Jeremy and he also does not get high PCS. Yet, Lambi's skating was no bigger, or even smaller because his jumps are relatively low and skating was so slow. I don't find Johnny's low PCS fair.

Nob would have scored better without the lace problem. He said that it was cut at landing the flip. Then his fall on the loop might have been due to the lace. But with the performance he did I think that he deserved that score. It's just Chan and Steph were overmarked rather than Nob was undermarked.

I respect Even went clean, but I think that it was rather a beatable, not that memorable program for an Olympic champion. Yet, it is still admirable that he was clean under all those pressures without the quad. But Plushy simply looked better to me. Perhaps I should try to analyze the protocol and examine where their jumps were placed in the program and how they maxed the elements. But boy, Plushy's jumps looked simply better and he did something more difficult than anyone else. Evan had to labor a lot to rotate his 3A whereas Plushy easily saved the landing despite having an off-axis. Evan's most difficult jump was 3A-2T whereas Plushy's was 4-3. And Plushy's program was a lot more interesting and had personality. I am sorry that Plushy missed the Gold.
 
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Seniorita:

I tried most of the night to get on the forum, and got up early to try again, just because I wanted to see your comments. In my mind you have been Plushy's biggest supporter, and the class, balance, and perspective of your reaction says a lot about you. Just wanted to let you know how impressed I was by what you had to say.
 
I don't like Plushy and am happy for Frank Carroll and the US, but I can't help believing that if Plushy were American, Scott Hamilton would be bleating about how Plushy did the QUAD and he'd be reciting from the book of Plushy - that in men's you need the quad.

Remember Yagudin's brilliant skate in 2002 and how Hamilton touted Tim Goebel because of Goebel's jumps? The hypcrisy kills me. Now all of a sudden the quad is eh and the "complete package" is everything. And I know it's not because Hamilton suddenly is a fan of CoP.
 
Morning after tweets:

Johnny: Congratulations to the medalists. Thank you to the world for showing me love and I hope I didn't let you down. I am proud.
Jeremy: Right here, right now... I solemnly swear that I will no longer be the forgotten child! It's time to step up and take my place in the world!
Evan: I can't believe it!!! Thank You to everyone who helped me get here. I'm the OLYMPIC CHAMPION!!!!

And everyone sending their congrats to Evan!
JoRo: Yay congrats Evan!!
EmSam: A huge congrats to Evan Lysacek!!! Olympic champion! And all the other U.S. men were amazing as well; we love you Jeremy and Johnny!!!!
Rachael: WOW!!! CONGRATS to all the men last night (especially Evan, Johnny, and Jeremy)! So happy for all of you! What an event :)

And others like Apolo Ohno also sending their congrats.
 
Last night, I couldn't access the forum, dont really know why, so I couldn't comment at the moment.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Evgeni in 2nd place. I'm not a fan of Evan nor Evgeni, but, in my opinion, Evgeni deserved to win.

Congratulations to Evgeni and the Japanese men!

:love:

Oh! And Johnny was so underscored!

:disapp:
 
I watched more of the comp.

Chan: Great edges and wonderful flow. I enjoyed the program. That has some dramas. I am surprised about the placement.

Re skating skills, I think that Koz, Chan, and Takahashi had the best edges and Koz the fastest. He was truly fab in his skating skills.

Re steps, I liked Dai's steps the best. They were very powerful, dynamic, and had great personality and appeal.

In terms of spins, certainly Lambi was the best. But Koz, Nob, and Chan were also pretty good.

Re jumps, I liked Plushy, Nob, Koz, and Chan (when he landed them). Johnny's jumps were all very beautiful. I feel that his 3A might have been bigger in the past. Yet, I am very impressed that he had all the combos.

Re artistry, Dai, hands down. His program was so rich! Steph was an eye candy looking like a prince. But his program had too many stumbles. Johnny was beautiful, but he might have been a little introverted at this time.

Re scores, I think that Lambi, Evan, and Chan were held up. I don't think that Lambi should have been placed 4th with those shaky landings and rather slow skating. Evan's PCS shouldn't have been that high, either. My dad knows nothing about skating but was commenting that Evan's skating was not beautiful despite the clean program. I think that he was getting at the arm flaring that he seemed to have found distracting.

I think that Johnny and Koz, esp Johnny, were undermarked. A possible explanation is that Johnny's skating might look a bit small. I have a similar impression on Jeremy and he also does not get high PCS. Yet, Lambi's skating was no bigger, or even smaller because his jumps are relatively low. So I don't find Johnny's low PCS fair.

Nob would have scored better without the lace problem. He said that it was cut at landing the flip. Then his fall on the loop might have been due to the lace. But with the performance he did I think that he deserved that score. It's just Chan and Steph were overmarked rather than Nob was undermarked.

I respect Even went clean, but I think that it was rather a beatable, not that memorable program for an Olympic champion. Yet, it is still admirable that he was clean under all those pressures without the quad. But Plushy simply looked better to me. Perhaps I should try to analyze the protocol and examine where their jumps were placed in the program and how they maxed the elements. But boy, Plushy's jumps looked simply better and he did something more difficult than anyone else. Evan had to labor a lot to rotate his 3A whereas Plushy easily saved the landing despite having an off-axis. Evan's most difficult jump was 3A-2T whereas Plushy's was 4-3. And Plushy's program was a lot more interesting and had personality. I am sorry that Plushy missed it.

I think Kozuka learned to skate from his parents who were national level skaters from Japan (men's single FS and ice dancing; father & mother respectively)
 
Ok, 87 pages later (my internet was spazzy and only going for national pages, was enough for me as far as watching is concerned...), here are some of my unsolicited thoughts:

*thought the mexican announcer couldn't get enough of announcing that Amodio was born in Brazil? Try the brazilian announcer...:biggrin: Amodio is awsome, and despite the fact that a huge brazilian talent is off on French lands, given his place of birth, had he stayed, his life would have been all difficulty and struggle. Go Amodio, and I hope he gets even better by Sochi.

*Chan has beautiful skating, but his jumps didn't match it. Way overscored...

*I'd much rather watch a slow and faulty Lambiel than a perfect Chan.

*Johnny was robbed. At least he got the rose crown.

*Takahashi!!!!!! Love him regardless.

*Plushenko lost to his GOEs. But 3 olympic medals is a fantastic acheivement.

*Lysacek, olympic champion: bleh! I pity you, americans with ears, with Scott probably going bezerk.

Well, I got my dream podium in pairs, guess I'll have to live with 2/3 of the men's podium being my nightmare...
 
Im sorry but evan skated the cleanest and deserve to win; I wonder if Plushenko was MIA during his own performance; all his jumps but two were slopply; His program was front loaded so he was missing out on the 10% bonus; also he didn't even stick to the program he completely left out a double two; the way he talk you would have thought he didn't witness the short program;i got the impressiion that plush feels like if he just land a quad he should be able to walk off the ice and still win; I don't think the quad has loss if value; Nobody outskatedd evan tonight period; He earned the gold; when a skater pops up that can do the quad and everything else; he will take all; until then
 
How Evan Lysacek Won and Why the Judges Don't Like Johnny Weir
Detailed break down of who was up on what points and where...

How did Evan Lysacek top him for the gold Thursday night? For the first time in Olympic history, the world can look at the scores of a close figure skating contest and know the answer definitively.

And the answer shows how dramatically the new scoring system has changed figure skating. Evan Lysacek won gold because of his spins.

Under the 6.0 system, such a statement would have been almost inconceivable.

Plushenko was the favorite, he did the bigger jumps, and he didn’t fall. What’s more, his showmanship stood in stark contrast to Lysacek’s cool efficiency.

Yet by all subjective measures, the judges saw the two performances evenly. In the so-called program components, where judges have some license to score based on broad categories such as choreography and interpretation, Lysacek and Plushenko scored an identical 82.80 points.
The math behind the gold

It was in the tricks and their execution that Lysacek won. Specifically, it was on spins and step sequences – two elements that were almost time-fillers between jumps in the 6.0 system.

Led by his high-scoring quad toe loop–triple toe loop combination, Plushenko outscored Lysacek on his eight jumps. But Lysacek’s second-tier jumps – not the signature big scorers – were more difficult and cleaner than Plushenko’s, which kept him close.

In the end, Plushenko outscored Lysacek in the jumps by only 0.3 points. Given that his lead from the short program was thin – only 0.55 points – that brought the spins and step sequences into play as potential deciding factors.

They were. Plushenko lost his entire 0.85 advantage in spins. All three of Lysacek’s spin sequences were rated level 4 – the highest level of difficulty. Only two of Plushenko’s were level 4. Over all three spins, Lyscek outscored Plushenko by 1.26 points.

And Plushenko fell 0.9 points farther behind in his step sequences, resulting in Lysacek’s 1.31 overall margin of victory.
 
^Enlight, I couldn't have said it better. You can argue whether or not COP is a good system. But, if you understand it, it clearly shows why Evan won. Plushenko got his points for his quad, but it simply wasn't enough. His program wasn't well rounded. He would have won a jumping contest, but that's about it. People like Evan and Racheal may not be the most elegant skaters around, but they are showing everyone how to work around COP and get the points. I could understand the arguments more if Plushenko had more going for him. But it was all about the quad, which wasn't even landed well.
 
Oh, and from a link off of that article I just posted...
“...I know Elvis Stojko was a big proponent for butching up men’s skating, but I have a hard time taking suggestions from a man who rocked purple pajamas in the Olympic Games and World championships."
- Johnny Weir
 
First things first, I want to say thank you very much to GoldenSkate and it's staff for all your hard work and putting up with all the trouble the increased traffic may have caused. So again thank you. :thumbsup: Congratulations to Even Lysacek for winning the gold medal however I do prefer Plushenko and his jumps. But that is not the way the currently scoring system works. Also congratulations to Daisuke on winning the bronze. The kid has a great future ahead of him and Japan's figure skating could yet see another medal thanks for Mao, perhaps even gold. Not to mention Japanese born Yuko narrowly missed out on a medal in pairs. I'm off to watch hockey.
 
I read here when I woke up and I m amazed a little bit , in not good way. I can hardly see any consipracy and this coming from a huge Plushy fan. What conspiracy? Evgeni lost to himself for not having the CoP friendly program and from all the genious of Mishin, I still cannot shallow it. It hurts and it will hurt probably for long time this small distance from the gold.

You work so many years on the circuit, your skaters comes back, you fight illness, age and smashed knees and you give him less weapons to fight in his programs??? This goes for his music in Sp, major drawback and the jump layout in Lp. Age and all, PLush saved this insane 3axel and 3lutz, he was capable of landing something more than a 2axel in second half. I dont know why they didnt have a backup plan. When Plush finished his skate I was already blurred with tears, I knew he would not win Lysacek the moment he didnt do a 3 combo. But tears were of happyness that I was privileged to see him again in Olys, my dad woke up to see evgeni also and he told me to believe in fairytale and be inspired by it.

So i try to keep this although today I feel awful bad and not because of who won or lost but of Plush sad face in KnC. I wish he knew this is a majopr thing he managed. I m waiting for Stephane and Plush show tour now, I think I want to enjoy them for now on in shows and dont need to worry about their marks, otherwise I will lose the joy of fs.

On a happy note I laughed because the crowd was shouting at Plush '4 more years', i found it cute. :) I really believe Mr Button can sleep calm:), I dont see a skater breaking his record for many many years more, Plush was one of the few who could do it. I dont know when we will see the next one.

This is the sweetest post....

I'm torn. Mostly I think Evan won fairly under COP and I can't help being thrilled because I love Evan ... But Plushenko in so many ways is a much more impressive skater. He pushes the boundaries of the sport. Evan doesn't.

Seniorita. I read your post last night, too. Thanks for saying Congratulations to Evan even though you were so sad. It was really classy and touching.
 
Im sorry but evan skated the cleanest and deserve to win; I wonder if Plushenko was MIA during his own performance; all his jumps but two were slopply; His program was front loaded so he was missing out on the 10% bonus; also he didn't even stick to the program he completely left out a double two; the way he talk you would have thought he didn't witness the short program;i got the impressiion that plush feels like if he just land a quad he should be able to walk off the ice and still win; I don't think the quad has loss if value; Nobody outskatedd evan tonight period; He earned the gold; when a skater pops up that can do the quad and everything else; he will take all; until then

well i think plushenko could have had more time for practicing his spins and footworks if he had knew quads were worthless under the cop.
 
Last night, I couldn't access the forum, dont really know why, so I couldn't comment at the moment.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Evgeni in 2nd place. I'm not a fan of Evan nor Evgeni, but, in my opinion, Evgeni deserved to win.

Congratulations to Evgeni and the Japanese men!

:love:

Oh! And Johnny was so underscored!

:disapp:

:agree:

Completely agree. Johnny rocked, and Daisuke was great too.
 
congrats to evan, amazing i know you don'
t like what i am saying-sorry-but the competition is and always has been rigged figure skating fan, moderators get use to it why you way one thing like fair play and push fair play but when it comes to actually pulling it off and get the correct winner or score, you do the exact opposite and go for cheating rigging and what the joe iman stated -evgeny wouldn't win why-no transiistions and low choroegraphy and look at score he got. it would be better if you would just tell the american public --we never (usfsa and isu )wanted michelle to win the only reason sale and pellieter got gold is because of high ranking official in orgaznistion.
all skater we will tell you ahead of time where you are going to place, you reverted back to the school figures--now it is much more publc due to internet, you tube, and you can't run away from public opinion --evan a hughe star in us depends on how normal public sees it. he did skate clean a few bobbles, but calling out by us judge didn't help the fact evan and michelle skated alike 1998-2010 race played a part in michelle not getting plus the fact the usfsa behind the scens wanted youngest winner-didn't call out tara wrong edge jumps and other bobbles on michelles--yep still rigged i will bet everyone one how rigghed you are and the usfsa is calling the shots.
sorry-yes evan did win-but not the right way--not fair not square, rigging, evan skated the way he should but the judges, politics calling out played a part in it. instead of just stating what evgeny did wrong to media they should have stated what all skaters do wrong and point out what all skaters do right -but no-the usfsa has to do it their way to push and guess who lucks out of amedal with politcis all of sudden d/w and b/a are hoping to medal not going to medal, not the girls are even less of a chance . so guess what just hand out medal for dance now to v/m --gold--dominin shablin silver and france delobelel schoenfeld-bronze
what they should do now is take away , tara gold, sarah gold, why their skating technique wasnt all that good- only had triple tripe, not much in artistry
you wanted the women to do triple/triple so bad you didn't care how they did it and bad jumps wrong edge takeoff's etc, ur's etc but gave it to them inflated their artistry scores so they would win. over inflated the technqiue jumps a bit and overlook their faults.
what it boiled down to you overlooked evan glitches and not evgeny's.
yes evan did win because more of evgeny and other skaters mistakes not what evan did.
guess what evan skated slow and consitstent a few glitches, bobbles on landings like michelle did in 1998 and he gotgold michelle sivler,
evgeny skate with more bobbles on landings but not enough artistry,
to make it worse the judges (joe iman came out and stated we will watch you evgeny and mark down your transistions and they marked down choreography as well, yes evan skated decent clean, what he was suppose to do-slow methodically .evgeny a bit less artiiscally, daisuke okay-but guess who won-did they give it to evan because of the skate or more for Frank to have his gold medal.
so now what will happen to the quad and harder jumps-will they skaters clean up their jumps yes for the easier jumps to get a higher scores of course, especially the men-will they work on artistry more yes-
make it deal with to keep michelle from having it, which judges did the make a deal with to let tara winning become the youngest winner even though evan andmichelle skated like evan in 1998 and guess who won tara jumps not artistry-sarah jumps not artistry-iman gloated to press i didn't give michelle my
RIgged --BVirtue moir the gold medal is yours, yu-na the gold medal is yours -not because of your but because they want brain to have his gold medal.
d/w and b/a unfortunatley you not going to get a medal why- the u.s. rigged it so frank could have you.
tbhey gave up your standing to let frank has his. or so it seems.
sorry but it is more rigged now than evan and the u.s. is pushing ahead it tells me know and proves to me now more than ever than proves us never wanted michelle to win gold medal-you can rigge it behind scenes by calling out michelles mistakes to other judges and not tara-sarah-irina, sasha, rachel, mirai, ashley only skaters you don't want up there.
sorry doesn't feel right-feels so rigged and maniupilulated
 
If the PC scores are truly supposed to reflect things like choreography, presentation, musical interpretation, transitions, basic line and beauty in skating, then I would have Plushenko out of the medals. But of course we know it is not working that way. His jump content was there, but almost all the landings were off in some way. The program was sloppy and uninspiring. It didn't seem like he stretched or completed anything. I was shocked that his coaching staff would let him come to the Olympics with a program so lacking, even in the type of bravado energetic presentation that he is capable of doing well. It is hard for me to understand how some fans can think he should have won, but that's why we have a discussion.

Evan is not inspiring, either, but his jumps were much cleaner, much better edges and body poistion in his landings, he stretched his body and completed each element with fullness, and there was at least some choreography to look at. I would much prefer to see the gold go to a skater like Daisuke or really any of the top 6 except Plushenko and Evan, because I enjoy seeing a strong artistic/dance/musical presentation in skating as well as good jumps. But Evan was the closest to the full package plus clean, so it is a fair result to me.

Daisuke did really well and I would have had him 2nd.

I understand some of the reasons Johnny scored as low as he did, but it is still toooo low. For Labiel, who was slow and tight, and with those awkward landings, to be ahead of Johnny is just wrong. He should have been lower in both the short and long.

Chan is a beautiful skater, but he had mistakes and I think in the big picture, Johnny did better. I am glad for Johnny that he is proud of himself, controlled his nerves, and delivered a beautiful and complete program.
 
Does anyone know if I can find a video of the medal ceremony somewhere?
They didn't air it and I would love to see it.
 
I haven't seen Lysacek's LP yet, but I did happen to catch Plushenko's on Eurosport.

My first thought was that it would have probably won him the gold in Turin. The thing is, back in 2006 he had a huge lead after the SP and he didn't have to do much to walk away with it. Here he had a paper thin lead but he still skated as if he had a huge lead. I don't know if Lysacek won so much as Plushenko simply underestimated what he needed to do to win.

His program had front loading, barely controlled landings and no flip or no three-jump combos. His spins seemed watered down from Euros (I'm not sure, but he didn't look like he was trying to add features) and his footwork seemed on the slow side (as it has during his whole comeback). On the whole the program didn't seem to be designed to maximize his point potential as much as show he could still do a quad, which just isn't enough now (irregardless of what you think of quads, the math shows they're less important than they used to be).

All that said, even though I've never been a fan I do think his comeback should be regarded as a massive success and despite the immediate disappointment he should be super proud of three succesive olympic medals. Given the nature of competition now (both in terms of numbers of competitors and what they have to do) that's actually more impressive than Henie's or Rodnina's three golds IMO.
 
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ARGH, I can't believe I fell asleep right before the two final groups! Oh well, at least I remembered to record it (thank god). I want to give a HUGE congratulations to Evan. I guess Scott was right when he said that every reigning American world champ going into the Olympics has come out with an OGM.

I'm crushed for Brian. I mean I didn't expect him to do well, but I also didn't expect him to bomb like that.

Patrick was totally overscored, while Johnny WUZROBBED! However that performance got below a 160 is beyond me.

Well, Carroll finally has his OGM. Can't say I'm upset about that :)
 
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