Men's FS

[Zuranthium]

Ten years ago, almost every medalist can do a quad. Now a major world gold medal contender can not even do a 3A!!!

No wonder you're seeing empty seats, he is killing the sport.

LMAO?

Talk about extreme, unrealistc hyperbole!

Yes, Jeffrey Buttle is killing figure skating. IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

~Z

 

[demarinis5]

There is nothing to psychoanalyze truly. Your comments do not reflect the knowledge or seriousness of a true skating fan that is concerned about the true standards of skaters or skating being upheld, nor the true value of their skating being reflected in scores. You instead come across as that "other type" of skating fan, which is fine, as I said the sport needs a mix of the serious skating fan and the skating fans like yourself. The important thing is their marking is not offensive in a way that turns off the more serious skating fans from holding the same interest level in the sport.

So tell me "true skating fan" in all your trueness how do you think the FS should have been scored. I can only go by what I read since I did not see the competition. It would be nice for a change to have a discussion about a competition without a six page thread on how the judging is inept and wrong.
COP was implemented to change all that.. I have been following figure skating for years and no matter what system is in place 6.0 or COP fans do not agree with the scores. It is obvious that you do not think Evan deserved his scores and I think a little bit of that has to do with you being disappointed about Buttle.

Just the opinion of that "other type of fan"

 

[kittycat26]

GREAT JOB EVAN! His victory is well deserved. There's nothing wrong with the score, I think it's fair. Even without a quad, his Carmen can always easily get 150+. And now with a solid 4-3 under his belt

Justification of current overscoring with the addition of a new jump, by reference of past overscoring minus that jump, by virtue of addition, is a flawed way to justify the merits of the overscoring a particular skater. All it shows is the extreme level of overscoring is consistent with the past extreme level of overscoring, and thus carried over to the same extent with the accurate addition of the new jump. Thus still just as enormously flawed and troubling for the sport of figure skating.

 

[iloveaxel]

Justification of current overscoring with the addition of a new jump, by reference of past overscoring minus that jump, by virtue of addition, is a flawed way to justify the merits of the overscoring a particular skater. All it shows is the extreme level of overscoring is consistent with the past extreme level of overscoring, and thus carried over to the same extent with the accurate addition of the new jump. Thus still just as enormously flawed and troubling for the sport of figure skating.

Both Evan and Buttle have been constantly overscored. But in this particular competition, Buttle was overmarked to extreme extent. Without a 3A, he scored sth only 6 points below his personal best. That's a scandalous mark.Evan, on the other hand, had 4t+3t, 2 3As.

I really don't want to see a MALE skater to medal at worlds with a quad-less and axel-less program.

 

[La Rhumba]

offtopic: http://www.usfigureskating.org/cont...rcontinents/backstage/belbagos-carruthers.jpg

Oh this look on Tanith's face is priceless. Peter did it again

Thanks for that!

 

[La Rhumba]

He could not do a 3A, always depends on PCS. He should go to the ladies' competition.

:disagree: :sheesh: :scowl:

 

[enlight78]

I realy don't want to see a MALE skater win a medal at worlds without a complete program.In other words, without artistry.

 

[happy hollow]

Just to add my two cents...I would rather watch Buttle skate anyday than watch Evan. It's not that I dislike Evan, he is just not my kind of skater. Kurt Browning did some commentary with Brian Williams during the Olympics and I agreed with him wholeheartedly. He said Plushenko allowed you to watch his programs without wprrying because he conserved so much energy for his jumps, which were so secure, that you didn't worry about him falling. Then they showed a clip of Jeff and Stephane, and emphasized how they grabbed you right away, not with their jumps but with their choreography. Kurt said he preferred Jeff's style of skating, but understood why people liked Plushenko, and that he was an amazing jumper and deserved to win. Then Elvis Stojko came on (who I used to love, but find I would only ever rewatch his martial arts program) and said the opposite. I would watch, and have, Jeff skate all day. Unlike Eman, even if Jeff's jumps aren't on, the quality of everything else makes you want to watch him.
Just my 2 cents!!

 

[La Rhumba]

He failed to land one 3A tonight. Those marks were ridiculous. It's really not fair to other skaters. As a male skater, he has to do 3A, period. Many years ago, many many male skaters were doing quad. It's really regressed a lot technically, Jeff bears responsibility.

If he can't jump, do ice dancing. It's ridiculous to reward such mediocre skaters with those PCS. No wonder figure skating is turning ordinary folks off.

What a load of prejudiced tosh!!

FYI skating is not ALL about Quads! Some of us prefer to see Artistic male skaters, such as Jeff, who give attention to their choreography and all aspects of their skating, not just Jumps!

Just because *you* don't appreciate someone's skating, or Ice Dance, or anything else you insult, no need to denigrate in the way that you do.

Oh, and just so you know, FS is very popular here in Europe, and growing all the time! So don't make assumptions!

 

[kittycat26]

I realy don't want to see a MALE skater win a medal at worlds without a complete program.In other words, without artistry.

Unfortunately the standard of artistry and aspects of skating, that according to the mandated rules, should be what goes into the PC scores, are not enforced with any integrity by the judging community.

 

[lutzskate]

Those who are on the anti-Jeff, "quad" bandwagon are simply showing their ignorance to understanding the sport.

Just ask Hamilton, Boitano, Orser, Browning, Yagudin, and they'll all tell you that a well executed spin or superb footwork is just as difficult as a triple axel or a quad. Look at some of the skaters who have the quad. They can't move their feet like a Kurt or they don't have the quality of line of a Boitano.

Saying that quads define the best, is just plain ignorant.

If it was a "jumping competition" then yes, but it's a SKATING competition. With a good skater, there's a lot more stuff between the jumps than there are jumps. That's what makes a good program. Not telegraphing a jump by skating from one end of the ice to the other to prepare for a quad.

 

[Maribelle]

Why are people so down on Evan and Buttle?

Evan has always scored pretty high in international competitions, so there must be something that judges like in him. Maybe they like that he is a more masculine skater.

The unfairness to me seems to always have been that the Russians always won the ice dancing, and probably still win win that. At least now there are other countries moving up in ice dancing so that it is a lot more fun to watch now.

I am not a figure skater, but I do like watching Evan skate. I also like Johnny Weir.
I don't like to watch the skaters who do not push the technical limits of the sport and I am happy that finally the American skaters are doing some quads now. Makes it seem more like a sport, than just ballet on ice.

 

[iloveaxel]

I realy don't want to see a MALE skater win a medal at worlds without a complete program.In other words, without artistry.

As I said, you can watch shows, there're tons. But it's really unfair to reward a skater in a competition who can not do a 3A. It is shameless. Do you know how hard those other skaters are doing to get those quads, 3A.

It's like to toss out a medal to a male sprinter who can only do 100 metres in 13 seconds just because you think he has a pretty face.

I hope Buttle will quit and join pro soon so all of us can still enjoy his skating without compromising the integrity of this sport.

 

[Hsuhs]

From here:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/c...-3787-4771-layout160-129898-news-item,00.html

Skating to “Carmen”, Lysacek put out a solid program that featured a slightly two-footed quadruple- triple toeloop combination, a triple Axel-triple toe as well as four more triple jumps. The two-time World bronze medallist was awarded a level four for two of his spins and his two footwork sequences were graded a level three. He only put down his hand on his first triple Axel.

Buttle hit a triple flip-triple toeloop combination and five other triples in his program to Armenian music from the soundtrack “Ararat”, but he doubled his first planned triple Axel and singled the second.

 

[iloveaxel]

Buttle hit a triple flip-triple toeloop combination and five other triples in his program to Armenian music from the soundtrack “Ararat”, but he doubled his first planned triple Axel and singled the second.

I can't imagine how you could get 146 points with only 5 triples, not even a 3axel.
This sort of technical content is not even competitive among elite FEMALE skaters.

Shameless judges.

 

[enlight78]

As I said, you can watch shows, there're tons. But it's really unfair to reward a skater in a competition who can not do a 3A. It is shameless. Do you know how hard those other skaters are doing to get those quads, 3A.

It's like to toss out a medal to a male sprinter who can only do 100 metres in 13 seconds just because you think he has a pretty face.

I hope Buttle will quit and join pro soon so all of us can still enjoy his skating without compromising the integrity of this sport.

If skating was ONLY about the jumps I would agree with your analogy of the hundred meter race.But skating is not only about the jumps. A decathalon is a better representation. How can you say that the high jump is less important than the hundred meter dash. Or that the hurdles is worth more than the 100 meters. Should a track athlete not be able win the decathalon in he completely bombs the 100 meters, eventhough he ties the world record in high jump. Buttle is traing hard on triple Axel. If he doing anything; it is raising the level of figureskating. He is forcing thoughs skaters that don't have great artistry to do cleaner jumps, more quads, in order to win due to their lack in PCs. More difficult jumps doesn't nessasarily equal better figure skating but it does equal more injuries.

 

[Vodka Shot]

I realy don't want to see a MALE skater win a medal at worlds without a complete program.In other words, without artistry

.
ITA but it looks like that's what we're going to see? "You can jump a quad, really more then one-well the title is yours then-forget that artistry crap; that's for gays anyway." < that is what I'm beginning to see. I'm hoping that Takahashi saves worlds. He is IMO the only male that has a shot at the podium that has the proper balance of tech. and artistry. This massive attention and focus on jumps but, boring, uninspired programs is what's killing FS imo.

 

[silver.blades]

I'd rather watch Jeffery skate with or without the jumps. I'll admit that it's nice to see a well done quad every once and awhile, but if that's all the programs has, I don't want to watch it. Yes skating is a sport, but it's also and art. The jumps are not the only athletic sections. A good spin is really hard, and in many ways takes more effort than a 3 jump. Footwork is also athletic and the more intracet a program is the more physically demanding the program is. To say that a skater isn't a great athlete if they don't have a 3axel or quad is completly unjustified. That's like saying a ballerina isn't an athlete just becuase they don't participate in a sport, and all of them are in as good shape or better than any other professional athlete.
I havn't seen 4CC yet, but from the reports, Lysacek deserved to win the free by more than 10 point and he was marked accordingly, but he was down by 10 points after the short and Jeffery deserves 8's in his PC. Then he would have won, based not on his free, but on his supirior short, where Lysacek did not have a good skate. Both phases count. And someone needs to tell the judges that the PC marks do not need to be the same across the board. Lysacek deserves higher marks for I&P than SS and C. They're not equal and the marks should reflect that.

 

[rain]

I can't imagine how you could get 146 points with only 5 triples, not even a 3axel.
This sort of technical content is not even competitive among elite FEMALE skaters.

Shameless judges.

Did you even bother to read the jump content? With his triple/triple combination and FIVE other triples, he did a seven-triple program. Lysacek two-footed his quad, put his hand down on his triple axel and did SIX triples total.

You're more than free to like Lysacek better, but there's really no need to make ridiculous and inflamatory statements saying that Buttle is somehow compromising the integrity of mens skating.

Also, you might want to quit saying Buttle doesn't have a triple axel. He clearly does, as evidenced by his landing it in competition. No, he doesn't land it all the time, but then, neither do ANY of the other skaters. Saying it over and over again isn't going to make it any more true.

 

[Melody]

As I said, you can watch shows, there're tons. But it's really unfair to reward a skater in a competition who can not do a 3A. It is shameless. Do you know how hard those other skaters are doing to get those quads, 3A.

It's like to toss out a medal to a male sprinter who can only do 100 metres in 13 seconds just because you think he has a pretty face.

I hope Buttle will quit and join pro soon so all of us can still enjoy his skating without compromising the integrity of this sport.

I believe I will take advantage of the lovely joy of something called blocking. You are entitled to your opinion. Frankly, I just don't want to listen to it anymore.