Mens - Long Program

[pangtongfan]

Except not, because Chan's capacity for emoting is nowhere near as good as Amodio's and he doesn't have the same quality of movement in his limbs either. In his SP this year, Chan TRIES to do what Amodio does and he doesn't pull it off as well.

I am so very pleased with this result. Amodio has been by far the most interesting European guy this season. The interpretive quality of his LP is phenomenal and he moves like nobody else can.

LOL nice joke. Amodio is promising, but Chan does EVERYTHING better than Amodio right now.

 

[Violet Bliss]

BRAVO, Brian Joubert, BRAVO! :thumbsup:

That skate can easily medal at Worlds, even Gold if he doesn't put his hand down as he did on two jumps here, also most importantly he has to skate *clean* in both the SP & FS, not just one,

Not quite.

Joubert's LP has a base value of 76.48 (TES) whereas Chan's is 83.33. His SP's TES base value is 36.5 and Chan's is 35.6 at Canadian Nationals but if he does a 3A as planned, it would be 40.8. So it's 112.98 vs 124.13 before GOEs and PCS. Joubert will be hard pressed to pass Chan alone. And then there are others, namely Takahashi, Oda, Kozuka, and Abbott, all with better skills as well as better records this season. He's battling the likes of Amodio and Verner.

Odds are against Joubert on the podium, let alone winning Gold.

 

[Buttercup]

LOL nice joke. Amodio is promising, but Chan does EVERYTHING better than Amodio right now.

Florent is much better in terms of musicality than Patrick Chan, and really better than anyone competing right now. That's innate - skaters can improve their interpretation, but a natural feel for music isn't something that can be taught. That having been said, he should get a competitive program to showcase his ability and leave the exhibition programs for galas.

Skatefiguring, you're obviously aware that base values change from competition to competition. I see no point in comparing Euros, Canadians, and hypothetical performances at Worlds. Sometimes the favorites live up to their billing and sometimes they don't. Remember how Dai was supposed to blow everyone away in 2008, and then proceeded to Zayak himself off the podium? Let's just hope for a good event.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Florent is much better in terms of musicality than Patrick Chan, and really better than anyone competing right now. That's innate - skaters can improve their interpretation, but a natural feel for music isn't something that can be taught. That having been said, he should get a competitive program to showcase his ability and leave the exhibition programs for galas.

I disagree completely. Making faces, posing, and dancing to the same beat is not more musical than emoting with whole body and moving with melodramatic music of complex tempos and emotions. Amodio being the most musical of all competing skaters is far from an acknowledged or majority opinion. At least not by the judges.

Skatefiguring, you're obviously aware that base values change from competition to competition. I see no point in comparing Euros, Canadians, and hypothetical performances at Worlds. Sometimes the favorites live up to their billing and sometimes they don't. Remember how Dai was supposed to blow everyone away in 2008, and then proceeded to Zayak himself off the podium? Let's just hope for a good event.

That's what people do in the forum, discussing, dissecting and speculating. You may notice I have done various analyses and comparisons with data to calculate odds but I don't make prediction. I also study mindsets which I consider of utmost importance. Nobody can tell the actual results ahead. That's why there are actual competitions. Whether or not there is a point according to you, people - athletes and their teams, federations, fans, etc. - do research and compare data for various purposes, especially since COP scoring does facilitate such analyses.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Making faces, posing, and dancing to the same beat is not more musical than emoting with whole body and moving with melodramatic music of complex tempos and emotions.

Chan doesn't emote with his whole body. Also, the statement "dancing to the beat" would inherently infer a greater amount of musicality than "moving with melodramatic music". The former talks about movement in time with the music, while the latter does not.

IMO, Chan hardly relates any complex emotions in his performance. Amodio, on the other hand, does. He brings sorrow, he brings solace, he brings anger, her brings sexuality, and he brings excitement. A far more full-bodied interpretation and performance than what Chan does, even if the Skating Skills and Transitions are not on the same level.

 

[Buttercup]

That's what people do in the forum, discussing, dissecting and speculating. You may notice I have done various analyses and comparisons with data to calculate odds but I don't make prediction. I also study mindsets which I consider of utmost importance. Nobody can tell the actual results ahead. That's why there are actual competitions. Whether or not there is a point according to you, people - athletes and their teams, federations, fans, etc. - do research and compare data for various purposes, especially since COP scoring does facilitate such analyses.

As you may see from my post count, I am hardly a newby and am well aware of how forums function. You seem to have missed my point, though, and I'll leave you to figure it out - maybe once you're done analyzing why Patrick Chan is perfection itself. I rarely post here these days, primarily because of people who think that unless you are 100% in agreement with them, you must be a moron. That's not a discussion, it doesn't interest me, and really, it makes GS much less fun.

Chan doesn't emote with his whole body. Also, the statement "dancing to the beat" would inherently infer a greater amount of musicality than "moving with melodramatic music". The former talks about movement in time with the music, while the latter does not. IMO, Chan hardly relates any complex emotions in his performance. Amodio, on the other hand, does. He brings sorrow, he brings solace, he brings anger, her brings sexuality, and he brings excitement. A far more full-bodied interpretation and performance than what Chan does, even if the Skating Skills and Transitions are not on the same level.

Thank you, Blades, well put. I don't particularly like Amodio's choreography this season, but his natural musicality is, in my view, unparalleled among current men's skaters. I hope that eventually his choreography will become more demanding and allow him to truly shine.

 

[Violet Bliss]

BOP, I have no wish to argue with you since you always exude absolute authority. I retain my very different opinions and am glad those with actual authority, and whose opionions count, do as well.

As you may see from my post count, I am hardly a newby and am well aware of how forums function. You seem to have missed my point, though, and I'll leave you to figure it out - maybe once you're done analyzing why Patrick Chan is perfection itself. I rarely post here these days, primarily because of people who think that unless you are 100% in agreement with them, you must be a moron. That's not a discussion, it doesn't interest me, and really, it makes GS much less fun.

You are making assumptions about me and what I think.

Interestingly you then go on to exhibit such characterization youself.

 

[Holy]

I think it's obvious that Chan is technically superior to Amodio, but to say he is more artistic as well is preposterous. Amodio relates to the audience in a way Chan can only dream of. I'm not saying Chan is expressionless or wooden, because he has his charm, but his skating is much more reserved than Amodio's--he doesn't have the same ability to immerse himself in the character he's playing, or to draw the audience into his performance. And yes, of course this is just my opinion--but it's an opinion more grounded in reality than the claim that Chan is more demosntrative or a better natural entertainer than Amodio.

 

[seniorita]

I think you compare apples with oranges. Chan and Amodio are from another planet each.
Chan is the best skater right now but he would not to Amodio´s program not even in a Gala to save his life. Motion wise.
Nobody denies Chan has better ss but Amodio can dance and play the crowd on his fingers, regardless of MJ, I ve seen him in shows also, the boy has IT. His last year programs highlighted it also. With Morozov he has crap program but he flies, he is consistent and his jumps have improved A LOT, cant believe he is the same I was watching last season.

I dont know why Chan has to be better at anything in life, but for now lets say his skate is more politically correct. The emotional peak music and right choreo details can highlight his flow but he is not Verner or Brezina dancewise not even Amodio.
Of course I m open to surprises.
Buttercup I m thrilled to see you post here

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

The big difference between Chan and Amodio? If given the opportunity to see them both off the ice, I'd chose Amodio. There's nothing special to him on the ice that wouldn't be better served off - his jumps notwithstanding. He's entertaining and awesome and feels the music (and I thought this last season with Munich and Amelie, so I'm not a jonny-come-lately here), but I get the feeling that an off-ice Amodio would be better in terms of musicality/interpretation/performance. He doesn't use skating in any particularly unique ways. Chan is the opposte. Nothing he does that he does well can be replicated off the ice. I could just watch him ride the edges. I don't mean to diminish' Amodio's competitive vigour or the sheer showmanship.

Buttercup, I'm not quite sure I agree he's the most musical skater out there. Abbott and Takahashi last season I think were equally musical and more "skating," off the top of my head. Kozuka in the SP last season as well.

I disagree with Nadine's contention that Joubert can win Gold, though. He's got a mountain to make up on PCS alone (Chan's lowest PCS this seaon eclipses Brian's highest) and his best skate this season is still behind so many other skaters. Of course what Buttercup says is right - ice is slippery and who knows what can happen.

 

[seniorita]

As it is now Joubert might not be in the run of the gold, and as things are now nobody but Chan will be if he skates like Nationals, but for me Joubert is not about medals anymore, he has enough to build a house with them, for me his Lp skate is what mattered, the fight , I will never count him out after a bad sp, Joubert silver come back after a not so good season was a triumph. Thats what I love in figure skating.

I dont want him to win worlds this year cause I prefer him to win them in Nice a la Sara Meirs
Nothing against Chan and Yuna of course, but that is what I wish for Dai and Mao, Irina worlds 2005 moments!

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Agreed. If Chan can only win one worlds, it better be in 2013 in London.

And lets also praise the fact that Joubert won the LP, something he's struggled with.

Irina in 2005 is my favourite victory, I think,

 

[Buttercup]

The big difference between Chan and Amodio? If given the opportunity to see them both off the ice, I'd chose Amodio. There's nothing special to him on the ice that wouldn't be better served off - his jumps notwithstanding. He's entertaining and awesome and feels the music (and I thought this last season with Munich and Amelie, so I'm not a jonny-come-lately here), but I get the feeling that an off-ice Amodio would be better in terms of musicality/interpretation/performance. He doesn't use skating in any particularly unique ways. Chan is the opposte. Nothing he does that he does well can be replicated off the ice. I could just watch him ride the edges. I don't mean to diminish' Amodio's competitive vigour or the sheer showmanship.

That's an interesting assessment and something I hadn't really considered. I think I agree. Can't say I much enjoy watching Chan, but his talent is certainly very ice-specific whereas Florent is more of a dancer who skates. I'm with you about last year's Amodio programs, they were wonderful.

Buttercup, I'm not quite sure I agree he's the most musical skater out there. Abbott and Takahashi last season I think were equally musical and more "skating," off the top of my head. Kozuka in the SP last season as well.

Well, I don't find Takahashi to be naturally musical; there's a quality to it, I don't want to say it's forced but his movement doesn't come across as very natural to me, more like he's actively thinking about it. Jeremy and Kozuka are lovely but not as versatile as Florent, and they lack that extra flair for performing. So I'll stick to my guns on this one.

 

[Puchi]

Just watched Joubert's LP and I loved it! I haven't liked a Jobert LP since Matrix but this one is a WINNER. I hope he keeps this program for next season. With more mileage it can become a classic.

 

[tdnuva]

arthur is just 17 in his first senior and he did pretty well, dont recall all your plushenko problems and tranfer them to him, ive him time to find his personal style.

Then he'd better start getting another coach, right?

 

[gmyers]

Gachinksi did fall and single and wobble on some jumps in this compeition. It is not like he was perfect on jumps and didn't medal because judges crushed him on PCS. It is possible that if he was perfect on jumps and didn't medal because of PCS than I think the first thing would be to try new choreo not change coaches. Everyone wants all the skaters who are coached by Mishin to change coaches. Like there is a possibility that the only reason you know their names is because they are coached by Mishin! LOL!!

 

[tdnuva]

One gets to know a name if he/she skates at big events and places high (or does something extraordinary). He was quite high in the ranks, therefore we talk about him.

The idea of getting a new coach is because there is no personal style, lots of arm waving and quite good technique. Of cause that does not mean, you can't make mistakes, Gachinski will learn that. But I doubt very much Mishin allows the skaters a personal style or even helps to develop that. I give him the edge in teaching young skaters good technique in the first place (we saw that in Gachinski's sp once again) - but nothing in choreography or style or even polishing the technique. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^
I see Mishin as a Jump coach but he was unable to get the kinks out of Lambiel's 3A. Mishin has never produced any notable Ladies and it took a long while to get Plush to spin properly. Mishin, for me, is not the greatest coach.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Just watched Joubert's LP and I loved it! I haven't liked a Jobert LP since Matrix but this one is a WINNER. I hope he keeps this program for next season. With more mileage it can become a classic.

Joubert is a Master Competitor. He rose to the occasion at this year's Euros. I believe him to be a moody guy who doesn't always do his best. This new program is very suitable for him.

 

[Jaana]

Joubert is a Master Competitor. He rose to the occasion at this year's Euros. I believe him to be a moody guy who doesn't always do his best. This new program is very suitable for him.

Yes, our commentators thought that his freeskate programme was great and the music suited him really well. I was happy for him to land onto the podium after the unsuccessful sp. What a competitor!!!