Men's Short Program, Sat. Nov. 12 at 2:30 am

[Olympia]

I have managed to watch only Dai through a small small screen and I m stunned.
My only objection, I loved the SC costume more, but in any costume this season he really skates like the king, like the ice rink is his and we are preveleged he let us watch his program and everyone who skates like this is in my top of the top list

You said it, Seniorita. He skates like a king. I watched the YouTube link (thanks so much to the person who posted it! I can't remember who it was now.), and I am in awe, and also in tears. I don't have the technical skating knowledge of some of you, but from the first time I saw Daisuke up to now, I knew he was the Real Thing, the way Browning, Curry, and Yagudin were. (Add your own choices to this list--I know that our lists vary, but everyone's list is very short.) Whatever "It" is, he has it. My choice for every competition he's in is Daisuke, now and forever.

 

[apple123]

I'm still in awe of Dai's skate, it's just out of this world! He's like a flying dragon, sometimes dived into deep water, sometimes hided in the clouds, nobody knows where he's going. Does anyone know what the music is about? Is there a story in it?

 

[let`s talk]

Menshov will be noticed by judges only when he jumps a quadxel or quint, not earlier . Lol at Mroz's PCS and that cheated so-called "lutz". Is ISU so desperate to bring a new quad on official records? Or they were just embarrassed that they homologated (what a word) his 4L on a non-ISU event, so they needed to find the way out? Amen.

Team Japan were wearing the hell knows what. All guys. First Machida in his flower butt, then Kozuka in bloody pants that he seems like not going to change, and then Dai in a monogender tulle-costume. I didn't expect such a tasteless thing from him. His old costume was definitely much better- more mature and it had oriental motives right for the program.
As for his skating- will go to watch again and again. What a nice reply on Chan's style "elements for money" with no connection to the music. Here we have what we must have- the old world of Artisty.

 

[emma]

I confess that I didn't love Kazuka's costume; but didn't hate it either. Totally loved Machida's flower and all --- too bad he fell on the death drop; but great program and energy from him. Dai is to die for - that hot costume and program and all.

So what does Kazuka need in this SP to wrack up better scores (I do so adore him)?

And, I was having visions of Buttle watching Miner. Anyone else thing his carriage and overall affect is Buttlesque? I think he did great. It would be cool to see him get some mentoring from Buttle.

Congrats to Mroz and that quad. Someone earlier made a comment about GOEs and PCS (or one or the other) as high in response to the high tech of quad lutz---I can't seem to find the comment, but in looking at the base value scores, I was wondering the same thing: as much as I admire Mroz - there just is not, yet, that same level of flow, blade work, overall energy and umph of some of the others - including Tomas (poor guy).

 

[jettasian]

So would skaters and that's why quads started to vanish!! Only 3 points lower from Chan at 2011 worlds!

Totally ridiculous score! Chan was perfect at World with the 4+3 combo, and he only got 93. This quadless got 90+? No freaking way! It's just obvious hometown advantage, and the Japanese just want to send the message to the world that their boy is still a big threat. All they needed was a good skate from Dai, and 90+ is his. What's the point to give him 80+ when Chan's best is 90+. They want to pull Dai's mark up so that Chan has some competition. Totally scandalous!

 

[jettasian]

Invalid generalisation. If ALL quadless guys were skating like Takahashi we really wouldnt have ANY but ANY problem. But they dont actually. There is only one Daisuke. And if you think Plushenko didnt have very good ss in his prime, then you must be 13.

I have managed to watch only Dai through a small small screen and I m stunned.

Talking about over exaggeration. Dai's not all that. All I saw was his always over the top reaction on his every move.

Why Kozuka is so low behind, I havent seen the program yet.

Kozuka's mark wasn't low. It's Dai's mark got inflated like crazy.

 

[evangeline]

Talking about over exaggeration. Dai's not all that. All I saw was his always over the top reaction on his every move.

Kozuka's mark wasn't low. It's Dai's mark got inflated like crazy.

Jettasian, try not to let your fandom blind you to the talents of other skaters.

Also, can you kindly elaborate on where you would dock marks off Daisuke? In which areas do you think his marks were inflated? Please be specific as possible so we can have a nice civil discussion on the matter.

 

[chloepoco]

Totally ridiculous score! Chan was perfect at World with the 4+3 combo, and he only got 93. This quadless got 90+? No freaking way! It's just obvious hometown advantage, and the Japanese just want to send the message to the world that their boy is still a big threat. All they needed was a good skate from Dai, and 90+ is his. What's the point to give him 80+ when Chan's best is 90+. They want to pull Dai's mark up so that Chan has some competition. Totally scandalous!

Can't be that scandalous....don't see too many others sharing your view.

 

[gmyers]

Even if someone is really good all those 2's and 3's in GOE is rare. You can only really see it in singles in Yuna KIms's Olympic performance or Shen and ZHou's. It is common dance because GOE and PCS are how winners are really arrived at. It is like Takahashi was at the Olympics or something. The GOE was so HUGE and shocking because like I said people have been good this season like Fernandez or Tuktamisheva and they didn't get anything like all 2's and 3's in GOE on well done elements. The judges just went unrestrained crazy and they really haven't at all at a GP event like this unless it was Kim.

 

[evangeline]

Even if someone is really good all those 2's and 3's in GOE is rare. You can only really see it in singles in Yuna KIms's Olympic performance or Shen and ZHou's. It is common dance because GOE and PCS are how winners are really arrived at. It is like Takahashi was at the Olympics or something. The GOE was so HUGE and shocking because like I said people have been good this season like Fernandez or Tuktamisheva and they didn't get anything like all 2's and 3's in GOE on well done elements. The judges just went unrestrained crazy and they really haven't at all at a GP event like this unless it was Kim.

I think we know by now that it's VERY difficult to compare judging panels from different competitions. The thing is, for the short program at the very least, Takahashi skated brilliantly. Yes, I know there was no quad, but everything was entirely of first-rate quality. And the marks should reflect that. For example, look at the 3Lz in the short program. I argue that it fullfills the following bolded bulletpoints on the GOE criteria:

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure

That's 6 bulletpoints, and according to the GOE guidelines, 6 or more bulletpoints are recommended to be given +3 GOE. But Daisuke received mostly +2s....he wuzrobbed!

 

[Kunstrijdster]

^You could even give him point one, if you wanted to. I've no problems whatsoever with Dai's score. What has been keeping/is keeping him back in general is low TES. This short was gorgeous, if anything some PCSs could even be higher, but that's up to the judges and they called this right. :thumbsup:

CBC commentators btw. were gushing all the way through and were totally fine with it.

 

[Violet Bliss]

CBC commentators btw. were gushing all the way through and were totally fine with it.

That is because it was gush worthy. I was the first one to gush soon after he started skating, if you check back on this thread.

 

[Kunstrijdster]

That is because it was gush worthy. I was the first one to gush soon after he started skating, if you check back on this thread.

You're right, I checked, and hereby officially homologate your gushing to be the first But this was only the GP, I can still be the first to gush over this programme during an ISU championships.

 

[Mathman]

Trivia question: How can you spot a modern figure skating fan?

He/she knows what "homologate" means.

 

[seniorita]

^Ha, omologate is a greek verb/noun (omologo-omologia) that means admit/aknowledge (basicaly used to say plead guilty in court), first time I read the word in english was here and I firstly thought ISU was accused of something

I have concluded that when my fav skaters get inflated marks... I dont mind so much.

 

[skateflower]

Totally ridiculous score! Chan was perfect at World with the 4+3 combo, and he only got 93. This quadless got 90+? No freaking way! It's just obvious hometown advantage, and the Japanese just want to send the message to the world that their boy is still a big threat. All they needed was a good skate from Dai, and 90+ is his. What's the point to give him 80+ when Chan's best is 90+. They want to pull Dai's mark up so that Chan has some competition. Totally scandalous!

So you think Chan should get no competition? Did Daisuke get a bit hometown boost in his score? Sure. But don't use Chan as a good example for fair judgement. Chan's PCS should never be that high. His skating skills are no better than Daisuke, and his performance & intepretation are simply junior. Chan got lots of generous marks which were completely unjustified. Daisuke, on the other hand, usually only gets a boost in Japan.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I'd argue that Chan's skating skills are superior to Dai's, and his choreography is arguably the most difficult in the world. I think he's closer to Dai inn performance and interpretation the many give him credit for, but I really can't imagine someone dismissing him as having junior skills in those areas, regardless.

 

[Bluebonnet]

So would skaters and that's why quads started to vanish!! Only 3 points lower from Chan at 2011 worlds!

A 4T-3T = 14.40. A 3F-3T = 9.40. A 3Lz-3T = 10.10. So a very well skated quadless SP is only 4.30 to 5.00 points less than a very well skated quaded SP. Therefore, it's not surprising if Patrick's 2011 Worlds SP was only 3 points higher than Takahashi's this time's SP. Now we know that Patrick has to bring his absolutely best in order to beat Takahashi's best. Or he'll be beaten.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Patrick's best will absolutely beat Takahashi's best, fans' opinions notwithstanding. Similar PCS but much higher BV, especially in LP, with high GOE. Takahashi's best does not include a quad with high GOE. Chan has beaten Takahashi decisively at every single direct competition last and this season.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Patrick's best will absolutely beat Takahashi's best, fans' opinions notwithstanding. Similar PCS but much higher BV, especially in LP, with high GOE. Takahashi's best does not include a quad with high GOE. Chan has beaten Takahashi decisively at every single direct competition last and this season.

sad but true. Dai has yet to prove he can do a clean quad (or a clean quad combo) in the freeskate, never mind in both programs. Even if he lands the famed quad flip, if its solo that is still fewer points than Chan's clean 4/3 combo.