Men's Short Program

[Mathman]

I am having a blast! I'm so amused by the desperate effort put out by those who insist on Chan's evil unworthiness. Even visited the most Chan hating board to enjoy the implosions!

What I don't get is, why aren't Patrick's fans celebrating his achievement instead of looking for non-existent enemies behind every bush?

 

[Tonichelle]

What I don't get is, why aren't Patrick's fans celebrating his achievement instead of looking for non-existent enemies behind every bush?

do you really want to open that can o' worms?

 

[Violet Bliss]

What I don't get is, why aren't Patrick's fans celebrating his achievement instead of looking for non-existent enemies behind every bush?

I am, I am! With a bigger celebration still to come.

Actually I've been celebrating privately so as not to rub anything into anyone's face. But somtimes it's fun to watch the torturers torture themselves. Some people just keep on attacking and deriding no matter what, but they are the ones taking poison and expecting me to die!

Mathman, though I've not bothered to respond to many allegations, I don't think when others respond with exact quotes are looking for non-existing enemies behaind every bush. There are those who do post long and post often slamming Chan's scores today, nothing hidden at all. After all, it's a legitimate tradition practiced openly. Your characterization makes it acceptable one way and not the other. Reactions and responses to posts is a right on the forum.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Joubert definitely has better speed, basic skating, and posture than Bradley. A better program as well. He demolished that lead in PCS by screwing up his Quad and not doing a combination at all, though. That's essentially 2 mistakes right there. His non-jump technical elements don't pull him like some of the other competitors.

Watching the performances again, Ross Miner is even better than I recalled. I thought I remembered a small bobble on a spin (too bad the audience doesn't get a review of all the elements the way sitting judges do at the competition) but they were all solid and his 3Lutz-3Toe combination was massive with a flowing leg line on the way out. I already thought his program was the best of the Americans but I gave Bradley a slight advantage because of the better Triple Axel and more difficult combination. Looking at the elements again, Miner definitely should have lead the Americans (so of course the judges only had him in 13th).

Denis Ten was really boring, so I actually do think Joubert deserved to be in 12th ahead of him. I still don't think Joubert deserved to top any of the Americans, though. He should have at least put a 2Toe on the end of his 3Flip after missing the Quad combination.

Joubert has already paid his due. He's only got 71.29. If he didn't get that quad popped, he should easily get around 78. I find that he's paid great effort on his performance this time. Clear presence aroused the audience. Did you hear the spontaneous claps from the audience through part of his program? I think he got the correct score, and deserved to be on top of all Americans.

I agree that Miner should have lead the Americans. Bradley was the wildest of all three, with the most difficult jumps and the worst of everything else.

Dai does not get me interested in his flamboyant style, and that is the cornerstone of his performances since he started competing.

I think this is right on.:yes:

Takahashi: love him, he's prefect. Sure, this is not his best program, but I'm choosing to close my ears and be in denial of any mistake he might have made *la la la la la la la...* But when it comes to owning the ice, no one comes near him these days. No one.

Cute, but it's true.

Most people expected a close race regardless. So to see such a wide gap between 1 and the rest......Chan must be overscored

Close race was because Chan hadn't shown the consistency that could match his abilities. Even some European skaters chose to ignore his impact in the race. Once he skates clean, there won't be close race any more.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

prettykeys, I agree. I think it's odd that Mens, where Canada is arguably strongest, doesn't have a OGM. But we have one in ladies. That's just wierd.

Imagine this: Adelina Sotnikova becomes the first Russian woman to win Olympic Gold (and does so at home). Patrick Chan becomes the first Canadian. That's what I'm rooting for, anyway.

 

[skfan]

Hi all Dai's fan on this broad.

I am sad about his score.. Yes, it is true that his spins were weak, and also a little mistake in step sequence.
However, I just love him so much that I fell into deep denial that he earned barely 80 this time.

IMO, he is the best artistic skater among all skaters who has ever lived on this earth. I really doubt that the skater like him will appear again in the future.　He is that special to me and I know many fans feel the same way.

He may not win this time, but I believe that he will skate his best free program tomorrow just lke he did at Nationals last year. I want to be moved to tears again along with so many enthuziastic fans of Dai-chan. He is the one and only who touches people's heart so deeiply.

i want dai to have a skate that _he_ is happy with. whatever the score. whatever the placement.

of course he's worked extremely hard, fought back from a devastating injury, and he has hopes and dreams and his scores and placement will no doubt matter to him. i want him to be happy because i adore him, so i can't say i completely do not care about the scoring.

but i've been underwhelmed with the scoring of skating since 1994, so i don't expect to find myself in agreement with the judges often it's skaters like daisuke, who can truly move me, who keeps me watching skating, whatever the scoring system, whoever is the flavor of the month now.

skaters have different styles, different on-ice personalities, if you will. i agree that dai doesn't have the purest lines, yet to me they are still aesthetic. i would have preferred it if he weren't skating latin themed programs for both short and long this year, yet because he's dai i can't help but watch and find his programs enjoyable anyway. perhaps he thought since this would be his last year, a worlds at home, he wanted to go with what he felt was his strength and give himself and his home fans a memorable performance.

in light of all the upheavals, i'm pleased that he was able to gut it through and his love of performing still shined through. the performance was flawed, but it still touched me.

p.s. chan was impressive just can't love his skating. my loss, i know.

 

[Violet Bliss]

You know, I don't think skaters like Dai and Nobu scoring over 80 is anything to sneeze at or for fans to feel bad about. As P J Kwong explains, 70 - 75 for SP is very good, 75 - 80 is excellent, and anything over 80 is phenomenal. Just because Patrick has a huge lead today does not diminish the values of his rivals' scores. They are worth celebrating too. I certainly don't think less of Dai, Nobu, or Taka, all excellent skaters I like, appreciate, and respect, and I'm still cheering them on.

Just because I celebrate Patrick realizing his potential does not reduce my other fandoms.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Blade of Passion is quiet for a little while now. Hmmm. Must be busy writing up his critique of Chan's LP tomorrow.

LOL, I have to get work done too! Can't be writing about skating all day long. I wish I wasn't compelled to watch this comepetition live. Kind of unfortunate how figure skating is making me drag *** at the rink. "I'm sorry, I have no energy today because of watching skating all night!" Totally messed up sleep pattern this week. I need to get more sleep before the competition tonight.

Anyway...no point in critiquing Chan's LP anymore than I already have unless he implodes and undeservedly wins the competition anyway. I still think he needs to have more *** to be able to convey the correct emotions in the programs he's trying to do.

(Self-censoring myself is no fun. :disapp: I saw that my other comment earlier was removed. Are these statements satisfactorily veiled?)

 

[lavender]

Not a Chan fan. Really dislike his personality but I just can't argue with his scores. His skating skills are top notch along with Dai and his jumps were effortless. That was like the best axel I've ever seen Chan do. Dai made mistakes and he didn't do a quad. Dai would have been up there. He was just off today.

I am still hoping Dai will have the amazing skate in the lp

 

[BigJohn]

Wow. Not even close. It should not be anyway.

Chan outperformed everyone. No one was close, no matter what you look at. The only aspect Takahashi clearly won over Chan is flamboyance. That lead could (should?) be even bigger.

Oda did well. Very happy for him.

Joubert overscored? Business as usual...

Both Oda and Takahashi were good, Chan was excellent.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Nah, this 3A is Chan's best, imo.

 

[Olympia]

You know, I don't think skaters like Dai and Nobu scoring over 80 is anything to sneeze at or for fans to feel bad about. As P J Kwong explains, 70 - 75 for SP is very good, 75 - 80 is excellent, and anything over 80 is phenomenal. Just because Patrick has a huge lead today does not diminish the values of his rivals' scores. They are worth celebrating too. I certainly don't think less of Dai, Nobu, or Taka, all excellent skaters I like, appreciate, and respect, and I'm still cheering them on.

Just because I celebrate Patrick realizing his potential does not reduce my other fandoms.

I love that last sentence. That's the way I feel. I think Daisuke is one of the best skaters ever, and if he wins everything he enters, I'll be happy. But Patrick is wonderful too, and he's getting better. I think the truth is that we're in a golden age of men's skating, and we're lucky to be here. We're also in some kind of wonderful era of ladies' skating: look at the top three!

EDIT: I finally was able to watch Chan's program. Wow, what lightness and speed! I hope for purely selfish reasons that he skates this well in the long program; I'd love to see two back-to-back programs this stupendous.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I think it's odd that Mens, where Canada is arguably strongest, doesn't have a OGM. But we have one in ladies. That's just wierd.

Imagine this: Adelina Sotnikova becomes the first Russian woman to win Olympic Gold (and does so at home). Patrick Chan becomes the first Canadian. That's what I'm rooting for, anyway.

I don't know the earlier skaters. Boitano was always better than Orser in presentation. He was both technically and artistically in upper hand in 1989 Olympics. So sad for Browning. This should not happen to him. Sandhu was always wild. Buttle has never been a strong jumper. He has the world class artistry for sure. An Olympic bronze and a Worlds title were great already. Chan is the closest hope for Canada ever since Browning.

 

[Tonichelle]

I don't know the earlier skaters. Boitano was always better than Orser in presentation. He was both technically and artistically in upper hand in 1989 Olympics. So sad for Browning. This should not happen to him. Sandhu was always wild. Buttle has never been a strong jumper. He has the world class artistry for sure. An Olympic bronze and a Worlds title were great already. Chan is the closest hope for Canada ever since Browning.

Hmmmm, no I think Orser had the upperhand artistically from Boitano who was and is very stiff... he's not "musical"... but his 88 (not 89 ) LP was inspired. One of Bezics best creations... the only thing that held Orser back that night was a flubbed jump. So close!

Kurt's best Olympics - skate wise - was in 88 in Calgary as well, oddly enough. 92 he had a back injury that he really had no business skating with at all... and 94 he came off the ice after his short program with the all too remembered "I guess the Olympics just aren't my thing." But he skated a heartfelt long and had his best finish of all three OGs in 5th. It happens... Stojko and Orser both have two silvers each... nothing to be ashamed of there.

 

[jettasian]

You know, I don't think skaters like Dai and Nobu scoring over 80 is anything to sneeze at or for fans to feel bad about. As P J Kwong explains, 70 - 75 for SP is very good, 75 - 80 is excellent, and anything over 80 is phenomenal. Just because Patrick has a huge lead today does not diminish the values of his rivals' scores. They are worth celebrating too. I certainly don't think less of Dai, Nobu, or Taka, all excellent skaters I like, appreciate, and respect, and I'm still cheering them on.

Just because I celebrate Patrick realizing his potential does not reduce my other fandoms.

Chan haters are just upset because Chan didn't make any mistakes so they can grill on him.

 

[Serious Business]

Well crappity, I knew I was missing something. Someone posted the wrong download link to what was supposed to be Ross Miner's SP, I didn't notice until now. Finally got to see his performance. If I was one for outrage this is where it might kick in. He skated that SP perfectly (but for an edge call and a minor flub on his flying upright) but still wound up in 13th place. However, that 13th is irrelevant as he is virtually tied with 11th and 12th, both of whom are also American! Miner actually got the highest PCS of the three American men (rightfully so!), he is only slightly behind because some lower level calls and less +GOE on his spins compared to Dornbush.

But one thought nags: why is Ross skating to salsa music? His hips were as stiff as a statue, and he utterly lacks the flair to pull off such a festive rhythm. Now if he made a huge effort to learn salsa, and the choreography of the piece actually paid attention to the music and style, it could be a triumph. But none of that was true, and it was a glaring failure to match the music. So when all is said and done, I don't have a problem with his score, either. His FS is much better suited to him, and as the judges seem willing to give him a fair chance, I think he can do well in the next segment of the competition.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Hmmmm, no I think Orser had the upperhand artistically from Boitano who was and is very stiff... he's not "musical"... but his 88 (not 89 ) LP was inspired. One of Bezics best creations... the only thing that held Orser back that night was a flubbed jump. So close!

Kurt's best Olympics - skate wise - was in 88 in Calgary as well, oddly enough. 92 he had a back injury that he really had no business skating with at all... and 94 he came off the ice after his short program with the all too remembered "I guess the Olympics just aren't my thing." But he skated a heartfelt long and had his best finish of all three OGs in 5th. It happens... Stojko and Orser both have two silvers each... nothing to be ashamed of there.

Right, 1988! Why have I always written 89?! It happened once before already.:think:

I felt totally opposite for Boitano and Orser. I thought Orser had stiffy arms.

I totally forgot Stojko. Never liked his skating. He was a fighter. But I never felt he deserved Olympic gold in both Olympics he entered.

 

[hikki]

I'm a Daisuke fan but Chan's skating last night was just phenomenal and I think the big lead is justifiable. I do agree that knowing the winner before the free skating takes away excitement significantly, but that's not Chan's nor judges fault, rather it should be a discussion of whether to bring back Ordinals or not. Humm...

 

[Mrs. P]

Well crappity, I knew I was missing something. Someone posted the wrong download link to what was supposed to be Ross Miner's SP, I didn't notice until now. Finally got to see his performance. If I was one for outrage this is where it might kick in. He skated that SP perfectly (but for an edge call and a minor flub on his flying upright) but still wound up in 13th place. However, that 13th is irrelevant as he is virtually tied with 11th and 12th, both of whom are also American! Miner actually got the highest PCS of the three American men (rightfully so!), he is only slightly behind because some lower level calls and less +GOE on his spins compared to Dornbush.

But one thought nags: why is Ross skating to salsa music? His hips were as stiff as a statue, and he utterly lacks the flair to pull off such a festive rhythm. Now if he made a huge effort to learn salsa, and the choreography of the piece actually paid attention to the music and style, it could be a triumph. But none of that was true, and it was a glaring failure to match the music. So when all is said and done, I don't have a problem with his score, either. His FS is much better suited to him, and as the judges seem willing to give him a fair chance, I think he can do well in the next segment of the competition.

Yeah, I just rewatched it. Yeah the three Americans (and Ten) are virtually tied with only 0.6 points between 10th and 13th and Joubert is only ahead of Ten by .29 so Basically 0.89 of point between 9th and 13th.

I think it's a tossup between Miner and Dornbush to be the slight leader of the three Americans. I think Miner did well considering that yeah, Salsa doesn't suit him.

I think the FS of Miner and Dornbush are great, so I think they have the potential to move up a few places. Bradley's whole chamber music thing is fun to watch, but not sure how it will translate given that 1.) he did it last year and 2.) you're dealing with a Russian audience.

 

[Blades of Passion]

While Miner may not be the best at Salsa, I still think he gave it a great effort and had a good understanding of the choreography. His interpretation is better than Dornbush's. With superior jumping quality over Dornbush between these two performances as well, he definitely should have been ahead.

To me, Chan could have left off the friend-nudging, girl-hugging and face-punching, and just skated.

Agreed. That's why I think Chan's programs in 2009 are by far his best. For me, Chan is best when he skates as if he's playing a piano. Precise, internalized, and patrician. His SP this year is an attempt at a character piece and I don't believe he is really able to pull it off. He's not an actor. That's also why his Phantom of the Opera program underwhelms (aside from a questionable music cut). He simply isn't good at relaying emotions overtly.