Michelle makes it official!!!

[R.D.]

Mentality is going to tire her and then burn her out. That is such an off-the-wall statement from someone who has never skated, never had an interest in the sport and is a card carrying constant "get Kwan". She is the one skater with the calmest nerves on the ice. I've seen her in action many times. And there is no burn out.

But I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said about my concern about her taking too much on her plate after taking it easy the last 3 years.

I hope I don't have to pretend to like MK from here on out to get my point across.

I can't think of you as a coach. You say she has to pace herself and then go on to say she must take on a fuller schedule. duh!

Pace herself, maybe that was the wrong thing to say. I meant she needs to "plan things out". Take a "fuller" schedule but plan things out. And there's no reason to think she won't do so.

Something could be worse than showing up at the Olys unprepared. Showing up at the Olys prepared and lose.

I think there are various ways of looking at that. I happen to think that both aren't necessarily a good thing. But if you come prepared, at least you will have less or no regrets.

So it looks like we have different viewpoints. Let's agree to disagree here.

 

[R.D.]

Clarification for the Kwans

Alright...let me say this. Seems I get a lot of flack for this so let me just clear this one up. I know there are a lot of Kwan fans here, so for all you fans out there (and I know you're out there! :yes: ), I don't mean to put her down with my comments. I realize I'm somewhat blunt with a few of my comments, especially about Kwan, but it's not personal, so don't take it so. I don't hate Kwan, I'm just critical of her at times.

Same goes with anyone else, for that matter. No hard feelings, no agendas, no anything.

(I will admit though, a select few of her fans have gotten to me many times before).

 

[attyfan]

I don't see what the conflict is. Michelle has to prepare, but that doesn't mean that she has to compete and compete and compete. For example, she can get CoP feedback from the international judges by doing 4CCs. Also, even without CoP feedback, she would have been better prepared for Worlds this year if she had done the same version of Bolero throughout the year, instead of making massive changes before each event. Having good muscle memory might have reduced the number of mistakes. After all, whether a program is or is not CoP-friendly is irrelevant when enough mistakes get made (witness the meltdowns of Shizuka and Joannie in the ladies event and Joubert in the men's)

 

[BronzeisGolden]

I don't think you have anything to apologize for, Red Dog. You are stating your opinion and doing it without resorting to petty jabs or malicious slander. You are direct and say what you feel. I'm an uber-Michelle fan and you've never even come close to offending me. Keep it up! Your insightful and balanced opinions are always welcome here.

 

[R.D.]

I don't see what the conflict is. Michelle has to prepare, but that doesn't mean that she has to compete and compete and compete. For example, she can get CoP feedback from the international judges by doing 4CCs. Also, even without CoP feedback, she would have been better prepared for Worlds this year if she had done the same version of Bolero throughout the year, instead of making massive changes before each event. Having good muscle memory might have reduced the number of mistakes. After all, whether a program is or is not CoP-friendly is irrelevant when enough mistakes get made (witness the meltdowns of Shizuka and Joannie in the ladies event and Joubert in the men's)

ITA with this- the "compete, compete, compete" mentality can only take her so far. I do think she should do maybe one or two more competitions than usual to get more feedback, but other than that, you're totally right. She can prepare, aka work her butt off without competing all the time. HOWEVER- that said, you only get experience by competing, so the one or two extra comps could do her good in that regard. Personally, if I were her that's the approach I would take, if I was willing to make the sacrifice to try for gold. If she's going to the OLYs just for the experience one more time, then hey- the status quo would work fine, and just may get her a bronze on a lucky day! Just don't expect Gold with the SQ.

 

[mandykane21]

The shame of it is, I think that she's was trying to change all year. I think that's why her program never stayed the same.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Same goes with anyone else, for that matter. No hard feelings, no agendas, no anything.QUOTE/]


With whom?
My questioning is the assumptions you make with your "I thinks". Where are you coming from to suggest that she may be looking for another coach? That's pure thinking without any hint of reasoning. If it is true, give the source of that thinking. What coach is she contemplating? Finish your thought. It goes with thinking.

It's ok to hate Kwan. No one is jumping on you for that. There are plenty who do hate Kwan. They want her to retire as much as you do. And they can tear her apart much better than the jabs you give. And they have no problem saying they want Slutskaya or Cohen to win. Can you say you want so-and-so to win? or is your entire interest in figure skating a quest to put down Kwan? and then disappear after the Olys.

Really, Red Dog. I would even appreciate a favorable thought on any other skaters besides the unfavorable ones of Kwan. Just to see if you are really thinking.

btw. I'm not disagreeing with you so I can not agree to disagree with you. I just want you to give us more explanation on why you think the way you do and limit your thoughts to one skater. You are obviously not a fan of figure skating. Am I correct?

Joe

 

[R.D.]

Where are you coming from to suggest that she may be looking for another coach? That's pure thinking without any hint of reasoning. If it is true, give the source of that thinking. What coach is she contemplating? Finish your thought. It goes with thinking.

I said I WONDER if MK will change coaches. It's just that, a thought. If that's not speculation, I don't know what is.

I would even appreciate a favorable thought on any other skaters besides the unfavorable ones of Kwan. Just to see if you are really thinking.

btw. I'm not disagreeing with you so I can not agree to disagree with you. I just want you to give us more explanation on why you think the way you do and limit your thoughts to one skater. You are obviously not a fan of figure skating. Am I correct?

Well I guess you can call me "the cynic" or "the pessimist" then. I don't often compliment skaters unless I thought they've done something REALLY well. I'll give credit where I think credit is due.

About being a fan of FS: I've explained this in countless other postings, but I used to be the one you call "once-in-4-years-fans". I can't say I'm a fan of skating because I'm only interested in the ladies, and I don't invest a whole lot of interest in it right now (I used to though). So, I'm just someone who used to be interested, and still is, but not nearly as much as I used to be. I may well be out of here after OLYs 2006, unless another skater captures my interest. (Maybe, just maybe if I have the time I'll stick it out for worlds).

I guess the "unwritten rule" strikes again; you HAVE to like a skater, don't you? I used to like certain skaters from time to time, but I don't have a favorite, never did. I love to post and discuss here, however. Without this board (and other ones too) I would have been out of skating a long time ago, just like 1998.

People assume I'm a fan of certain skaters, especially Cohen. I have this to say to you: if I was, I WOULDN'T BE POSTING HERE. I would lurk here, yes, but I doubt I'd have much of anything to say. It sounds weird, but I really wouldn't- I would frequent and post at X skater's fan board. But, other than visiting periodically for news (because fan forums get skater news often before general skating forums do, and there are a lot of posts about skaters there that never make it to the general boards), I steer clear of them. I just can't take the blind fandom (which BTW is not a bad thing) that many/most people have there towards their skater. But, of course, it's a fan forum. That's what it's for.

 

[brad640]

Personally, if I were her that's the approach I would take, if I was willing to make the sacrifice to try for gold. If she's going to the OLYs just for the experience one more time, then hey- the status quo would work fine, and just may get her a bronze on a lucky day! Just don't expect Gold with the SQ.

I would not diminish the significance of another Olympic bronze medal for Kwan. Of course any skater would love to win gold, but if Michelle wins a third Olympic medal of any color it will set her apart from others in the history books, which is second only to an OGM on her list of career goals.

By comparison, repeated Olympic success without gold has defined many other successful careers, but no singles skater has won 3 olympic medals since figures were phased out. Elvis had one of the longest eligible careers in recent memory, which included 2 Olympic silvers. Eldredge and Browning competed in multiple Olympics but never won a medal. When Candeloro and Lulu repeated as Olympic bronze medalists in 98, it was a huge accomplishment because of the enormous struggle of surviving another Olympic cycle as a top competitor. In 94 when the former champions Boitano, Petrenko and Witt reinstated their eligibility none of them were able to medal. Kerrigan was helped by the shortened cycle between 92 to 94 to win her 2 medals. The last 4 ladies and the last 3 mens Olympic champions were one time medalists (and Witt’s 2 golds are now tinged with sadness and secrecy regarding East German doping).

Kwan has made many sacrifices to (in all probability) become a 3 time Olympian. Minimizing her competition schedule since 02 was a necessity to ensure that she made it to this season injury free. Even if she does not medal in Turino, she will distinguish herself just by competing, but if she wins any medal it will be an emotional and historic feat.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Hey Red Dog

I would never call you a cynic or a pessimist, although I think you would want that attention.

Of course 'wondering' if MK will change coaches. I understand now. I often wonder if Katie Taylor will change coaches. It's those damn wonderings that come up out of the blue.

Yup. If you are an avid fan of the Huston Oilers, then figure skating takes a big back seat in your fan book. Well, maybe just one division in figure skating and only one skater to put down.

Absolutely one has to obey the "unwritten rule". I can't imagine a Derek Jeeter fan not wondering why he is not hitting more homers.

Red Dog - You know the above is said in jest, and we do hope you continue to visit those 'fan boards' and bring us the latest info.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

I would never call you a cynic or a pessimist, although I think you would want that attention.

Why? What good would that do me?

Yup. If you are an avid fan of the Huston Oilers, then figure skating takes a big back seat in your fan book. Well, maybe just one division in figure skating and only one skater to put down.

The football franchise in Houston is now the Texans. Our family is currently in the process of moving out of Houston (hence my location "in transition") but I will always continue to cheer for my home team(s).

Kwan's been the skater I've known the longest, even before I started following skating. So naturally I'd have more to say about her than other skaters. I've been refraining from discussing or posting about Cohen lately because of comments from certain posters here. And the other ladies skaters, fair game. I call myself a non-fan because I do not cheer for anyone during a skating competition...any more, that is. Even the ladies are starting to dry up for me. Maybe it's time to go back to once-every-4-years status.

we do hope you continue to visit those 'fan boards' and bring us the latest info.

sure.

 

[R.D.]

Fyi

I see other posters constantly criticizing/putting down certain single skaters, but I don't see them getting jumped on. Is it only not ok when it's Kwan?

Just an observation- not intending to start anything.

(I won't be able to reply to any responses until we move and I get my new computer, which will be a few days).

 

[33leprechaun]

Ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

 

[gezando]

The football franchise in Houston is now the Texans. Our family is currently in the process of moving out of Houston (hence my location "in transition") but I will always continue to cheer for my home team(s).

Smart moving to San Antonio? SAS is hot.

.

I used to like certain skaters from time to time, but I don't have a favorite, never did.

http://www.website1.com/odyssey/week1/nile.html

 

[CDMM1991]

Lesson?

Do you think Michelle learned her lesson this year? Will she compete on the Grand Prix in 2005/2006?

 

[attyfan]

I don't know if Michelle has much of a choice in the matter, as the ISU sent a circular letter (No. 592), warning the federations "and through [them], the skaters" that the ISU would take disciplinary action against skaters who don't do the GP, without good cause -- including banning (or asking the federations to ban) them from Worlds and Olys. Click on this link (and if it works), scroll all the way down to the bottom to find the link to the ISU letter:

http://www.frogsonice.com/skateweb/articles.shtml

Also, IMHO, Michelle made several critical training mistakes last year (changing the program every single time she did it, so she didn't build muscle memory, as well as getting no CoP experience). If she does the same program throughout, with using the 4CCs for CoP feedback, she may do OK, even if she skips the GP (assuming that she can do so)>

 

[CDMM1991]

I don't know if Michelle has much of a choice in the matter, as the ISU sent a circular letter (No. 592), warning the federations "and through [them], the skaters" that the ISU would take disciplinary action against skaters who don't do the GP, without good cause -- including banning (or asking the federations to ban) them from Worlds and Olys.

I think this rule will be a very beneficial one for the sport, as long as they actually need good reasons. I would really like the best skaters out there on the Grand Prix circuit -- all of them. With this rule, it's going to be less of a mystery predicting, we will have hard proof to back up our predictions once it comes Oly time.