Michelle - The End or a New Beginning?

[LegalGirl82]

Just saying. MK may be forced to do GP this next time if she wants to do Worlds and Olys.

For all we know, Michelle has planned to do the GP series in 05/06 all along as part of her overall strategy. No forcing required. But then again, maybe not. As Joe says, she is the mysterious one.

 

[Mathman]

That's not a guy who's going to get a lot of sympathy from the ISU.

Soogar, that's my point. The Russian Federation should stand up for its athletes and stop worrying about whether Speedy's feathers are ruffled or not.

MM

 

[nymkfan51]

What a great discussion!

My feeling is she will come back and try for the Olympics. I have felt all along that she has been pacing herself ... mainly due to the fact that she discovered in the past few years that her body can't take what it did 4 or 5 years ago. I believe she has mentioned this publicly. I also remember at one point she must have talked about not competing for a few years, and then coming back for another Olympic try ... and I think her sister Karen advised against that because it would take too much of an effort to come back.

One thing I came away with after watching this Worlds was that she can definitely handle COP. She may not like it as much as the old system, but what she does like is a challenge ... and she has one now for sure!

I feel she has been holding off for as long as she could ... IMO so that she would be healthy enough for Torino. So ... I'm thinking the only thing that keeps her from competing next year is an injury.

And I'm like you Heather ... eternally optimistic where she's concerned! :thumbsup:

 

[mzheng]

Soogar, thanks for responding my questions.

I'm with MM here. Russian Federation should've backedup for him.

Don't know when his grion injury was diagnized, if earlier, he should've skip the whole season of last season, did he have a knee injury right after the 2002 SLC? He should've sit out at 2003 or 2004 season try cure or at least let his body and mental rest for a while. Then came in this season setup strong for next season. Even though I love Lambial style much better, but I would love to see him(Plushy) win a OGM, he deserves.

 

[mpal2]

I also remember at one point she must have talked about not competing for a few years, and then coming back for another Olympic try ... and I think her sister Karen advised against that because it would take too much of an effort to come back.

I agree with you on this point. Michelle also toured with Todd Eldredge and Elvis Stoiko. I would guess that she probably heard a few of their comeback war stories. I remember Todd saying that it was difficult to come back after just doing shows. He said something to the effect of forgetting how to compete and having to relearn it. Maybe she learned from their experience as well.

 

[soogar]

Soogar, that's my point. The Russian Federation should stand up for its athletes and stop worrying about whether Speedy's feathers are ruffled or not.

MM

Well I think the RF is backing up its athletes by staying in the good graces of the ISU. Look at how much pull Russia has in influencing judging and Russia isn't exactly the country that provides the big TV contracts. Also Plush has one more competitive year in him and then after that he's a big question mark. There are other skaters coming after Plush and the RF needs to be in good stead with the ISU. I think that if the RF backed Plush and told the ISU to stuff it, N&K wouldn't be dance champions (perhaps it would go to the GrushGons b/c I don't see the judging panel ready to hand the World Championship to an American team right now), and Sasha might have been your new world champion.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I still think Michelle will win the '06 OGM for no reason I can explain. I just do. But I think--strike that--I know life can throw more scenarios at us than we can possibly think of. I think that no matter what happens, Michelle will refuse, as much as any of us can, to let herself have anything but a great life, whether it be performing in front of countless fans, having a great family life while doing figure skating commentary, or doing something completely different.

Rgirl

Wow, I am so impressed with all these posts...

Rgirl,

I totally agree with this opinion... and your entire post. The Olympics is about that one magical night for that one deserving person & I believe that '06 will be her time... Not because of her reputation, record or skating ability but because of karma... She's earned her OGM through her remarkable impact on this sport and deserves her Dan Jansen moment... EVERY olympic games has one & I know she will have hers...

I can't do double quote boxes but I have a couple of questions...

1. Regarding this whole "MK is not a technical skater but an artistic one" issue. Is this really fair to say? Part of her success is the fact that she's the most consistent skater in the world. She's a great artistic skater BECAUSE her technique is good or am I missing something? Irina is a great technical skater who lacks in artistic quality because she is sloppy. Sasha has great line & flexibility but has trouble holding a landing. Isn't Michelle a combination of the two? Isn't saying she's just artistic putting her in the same catergory as Lucinda Rue?

2. If she were planning to retire, why wait until one year before the games? Even if this was the original plan, based on what we know of her career thus far, does that sound like the hardest working chick in figure skating? Or does it sound like she has been biding her time, saving her back, and getting her sh** together to put it all on the line in Italy? If she retires this year, what does say about the last three years? That she was between gigs & thought that skating would keep her busy?

3. How obessed are we really with Michelle Kwan? Even the antis have nothing better to talk about... Even when she looses, she still wins... Very cool

Kwanford Wife

 

[mzheng]

Wow, I am so impressed with all these posts...

Rgirl,

I totally agree with this opinion... and your entire post. The Olympics is about that one magical night for that one deserving person & I believe that '06 will be her time... Not because of her reputation, record or skating ability but because of karma... She's earned her OGM through her remarkable impact on this sport and deserves her Dan Jansen moment... EVERY olympic games has one & I know she will have hers...

I can't do double quote boxes but I have a couple of questions...

1. Regarding this whole "MK is not a technical skater but an artistic one" issue. Is this really fair to say? Part of her success is the fact that she's the most consistent skater in the world. She's a great artistic skater BECAUSE her technique is good or am I missing something? Irina is a great technical skater who lacks in artistic quality because she is sloppy. Sasha has great line & flexibility but has trouble holding a landing. Isn't Michelle a combination of the two? Isn't saying she's just artistic putting her in the same catergory as Lucinda Rue?

2. If she were planning to retire, why wait until one year before the games? Even if this was the original plan, based on what we know of her career thus far, does that sound like the hardest working chick in figure skating? Or does it sound like she has been biding her time, saving her back, and getting her sh** together to put it all on the line in Italy? If she retires this year, what does say about the last three years? That she was between gigs & thought that skating would keep her busy?

3. How obessed are we really with Michelle Kwan? Even the antis have nothing better to talk about... Even when she looses, she still wins... Very cool

Kwanford Wife

KW, I think this should answer all the question of this thread:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...,1,6540938.column?coll=cs-international-print

Kwan was questioned about not competing in Grand Prix events to familiarize herself with the new system. Her response was she preferred not to compete as much in the interest of avoiding injury.

Most expect Kwan will change her mind about the Grand Prix before next season if she still wants to try for a third Olympic team. It is more likely she will limit herself again to pro-ams, to be judged by the new system next fall.

The game has changed on Kwan at 24. She is in something of a no-win situation: walking away would be the easy way out, and staying in means a hard road ahead.

Kwan always has been too much of a competitor to back down from a challenge, but this is a formidable one. The new system forces her to redefine herself athletically the way she did artistically at 15, when the kid in the ponytail turned into a young woman who could be a sophisticated Salome on ice--and do seven triple jumps.

"I have to put my back against the wall and do it," Kwan said. "That's what they are asking for, and that's what I have to do."

 

[Eeyora]

Wow, I am so impressed with all these posts...


3. How obessed are we really with Michelle Kwan? Even the antis have nothing better to talk about... Even when she looses, she still wins... Very cool

Kwanford Wife

LOL

I know her





fans are obseesed with her winning. While her non-fans are fixated with her losing.

 

[tannisming]

Wow, I am so impressed with all these posts...

Rgirl,

I totally agree with this opinion... and your entire post. The Olympics is about that one magical night for that one deserving person & I believe that '06 will be her time... Not because of her reputation, record or skating ability but because of karma... She's earned her OGM through her remarkable impact on this sport and deserves her Dan Jansen moment... EVERY olympic games has one & I know she will have hers...


Kwanford Wife

.......................................................................Karma? Just so we know, at what point will Silvia Brown enter the Olympic arena? Is that Kenny Kingston slinking around in the corner? Just wondering. So I guess even without the karma, Kwan will get sort of a life time Olypmic gold medal achievement award as opposed to who actually skated best that night? I don't know, Karma, life time Olympic awards, it's quite a bit for one night.

 

[sheilagh]

I remember when figures were totally eliminated and more emphasis was placed on short and long programs. The triple jumps became more important. Jill Trenary decided not to continue in the "amateur" arena because "my sport has changed".

Similarly, I think that on further reflection, Kwan will take the same approach. At her first Olympics, she "won" the silver, on the second one, she got a bronze. Unless she is shooting for the equivalent of pewter, I don't think we will see her in Turino.

She has accomplished a lot, made mountains of money, and is young enough to find another niche in which to excel. Eligible skating has changed in ways which make it all but impossible for her to stay at the top. She's had a formula for achieving success in the past, but that formula doesn't work under the new system. She isn't going to change who she is.

-- sheilagh

 

[chuckm]

Sheilagh: bull pucky!

 

[StillBlueLake]

MK skated two fairly crappy LPs, with no more than four triples in them, she still missed a medal by the tiniest of margins. If she had landed all her jumps, in all phases of the competition, I believe she would have the silver right now.

Now there is a question. Can MK skate more loaded programs AND do the jumps?I have never believed that she just didn't feel like doing intracite choreography anymore. Rather, as she has gotten older, it is harder for her to do the jumps. Yes, I know Irina's older than her. But you know what? She's NOT Irina, and she's not the natural jumper that Irina is. She has "saved" her body for a few years. If she can motivate herself to make one more push and do a program with content and the jumps, I do think she will be right in the mix. And I dearly hope she does the GP series.

 

[tdnuva]

MK skated two fairly crappy LPs, with no more than four triples in them, she still missed a medal by the tiniest of margins.

And that is exactly what is annoying me. That obviously she is rather awarded for what she did before than what she does now. There might be other cases, but she is one for sure.

 

[equestrianguy]

I believe it is the new beginning of the end. I hope MK stays around for the Olympics and skates in the GP next year before hand. I give very much respect for her for being smart enough to know what she needed. To go to the Worlds for ten years and medal everytime. It goes to show she was intelligent enough to stay injury free and have the longevity that she has had. Even if she never wins a Olympic gold she will be remembered a 100 years from now...As one of (or the most) decorated figure skater in history. I know years from now we will miss what she gives to the sport. I definately miss G&G and wish there were a pairs team like that again competing. It won't be the jumps we will miss but the passion of their skating..

 

[StillBlueLake]

And that is exactly what is annoying me. That obviously she is rather awarded for what she did before than what she does now. There might be other cases, but she is one for sure.

Can you state who skated better than her and finished lower in the standings?

 

[Kwanford Wife]

.......................................................................Karma? Just so we know, at what point will Silvia Brown enter the Olympic arena? Is that Kenny Kingston slinking around in the corner? Just wondering. So I guess even without the karma, Kwan will get sort of a life time Olypmic gold medal achievement award as opposed to who actually skated best that night? I don't know, Karma, life time Olympic awards, it's quite a bit for one night.

Karma & Silvia Brown have little to nothing to do with each other... But if you look at the Olympics from a historical viewpoint, there is always that one athlete that has a ton of obsticles in their way, previous olympic attemps and all the talent in the world... They go out & blow the competition away... Its called the "Olympic Spirit" and those are the stories that make the Games special.

I will say that you have a point (as much as it kills me...) in terms of performance, but on the other hand, a little bit a cosmic justice never hurt anybody.

But here's a question to you: Who do you root for? I've never really read a post by you that states what it is about figure skating that you appreciate and who. We get that you aren't a Michelle Kwan fan & that's fine, but I'm interested in knowing what draws you into the sport ~ skaters, CoP, personal passion as a skater... Let's have a serious discussion about this topic as opposed to making it into a snark fest. You know what I mean?

Kwanford Wife

 

[tdnuva]

Can you state who skated better than her and finished lower in the standings?

The main point for me are her much too high marks for transitions and choreography. Slutskaia's were too high, too in that department (same problem).

When you look at the final ranking in the fp e.g. the pcs marks reflect exactly the ranking - almost thruout. Obviously that is the main point where the judges set whom they want in which rank. For me Suguri and Pöykiö e.g. are in the same league as Kwan when it comes to skating skills. And several of the lower ranked skaters probably, too. When it comes to choreography Kwan's mark is ridiculous imho. Many did much more than her and are ranked behind her in that mark.

All in all - there is hardly more than 0.4 difference within pcs marks for each skater. Which makes it rather obvious that those things are not really judged, but just set to rank the skaters..... (not only in the ladies btw)

 

[tannisming]

I root for anyone who ups their programs in all areas. Particularly the technical. I guess because of all the years we had to suffer through sleep inducing programs with little difficulties. If Michelle suddenly starts doing 3 axels, 3/3's ect, like Asada, Midori, and Harding, I will be rooting for her just like any other skater. At the olympics I will be rooting for the lady with the hardest program and praying Plushy is well enough to skate because he truly brings it.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I root for anyone who ups their programs in all areas. Particularly the technical. I guess because of all the years we had to suffer through sleep inducing programs with little difficulties. If Michelle suddenly starts doing 3 axels, 3/3's ect, like Asada, Midori, and Harding, I will be rooting for her just like any other skater. At the olympics I will be rooting for the lady with the hardest program and praying Plushy is well enough to skate because he truly brings it.

Ok, I understand your point, but disagree with your logic... Here's why: there is more to figure skating than just jumps. It is more than just a sum of its parts. Just like in gymnastics there is more to it than flipping around.

I haven't seen Asada, but I hear she's amazing ~ I also understand that she's like 14, so it will be awhile before she hits the senior level. Midori & Harding were awesome jumpers, but that was it and without the jumps they both had difficulity maintaining their world placements ~ and I think this would've been true regardless of the judging system.

CoP is not going to encourage increased technical difficulty because it emphasis so many different things. If this weren't true, the Japanese ladies would've finished much higher at worlds.

I also think its interesting that you bring up Plushy because he is injured as a direct result of his desire to up the technical difficulty. Timmy is another one who comes to mind. Tara & NNN are always at the top of my list when the technical question comes up. The human body can only sustain so much.

I guess my question to you is this: Should technical difficulity be the center most important thing or an overall creative skater? Is figure skating better off with skaters with sustainable careers (competitive & pro) or hurt overall because skaters are done at a young age because the technical difficulty destroys their bodies ala Tara? And is this reasonable for fans & the federations to expect?

Kwanford Wife