Michelle - The End or a New Beginning?

[hockeyfan228]

According to my source her jumps now are much biger than when she first came to Rafael.

This was true at Worlds. The height of Kwan's jumps weren't distinguishable from Cohen's in the past couple of years, but Kwan's attack and power in the solo jumps and the first jump in the combos in her Moscow LP -- even a bit in the quali -- made Cohen's look much smaller. Kwan still has a relatively small second jump in combo, though, much like Cohen's.

Kwan's jumps are still a cut below in power from Slutskaya, Sebestyen, Sokolova, Arakawa (when she's on), Ando, or even Rochette, and in height from Kostner's, but they are markedly improved over the past few years.

 

[mzheng]

I just noticed something interesting about the Lps at Worlds. Michelle presented a more difficult program than Irina did, according to the CoP. The base value for Michelle's program was 56.7 and for Irina it was 56.1.

Despite having weaker technical content, Irina won handily by getting a lot of positive GOEs and component scores, while Michelle had negative GOEs on two of her jumps.

I guess Irina better beef up her program for next year, if she wants to compete under the CoP, LOL.

MM

It was GOEs which hold Kwan down. Judges were more strict on her GOEs than the skaters placed above her. If you compare the detail protocol sheet among the top 4 ladies. And to think that TT's comments right before lady's competetion started, you would've thought Michelle would've earn more GOE points. But after all TT was not the judge. lol

 

[fscric]

It was GOEs which hold Kwan down. Judges were more strict on her GOEs than the skaters placed above her. If you compare the detail protocol sheet among the top 4 ladies. And to think that TT's comments right before lady's competetion started, you would've thought Michelle would've earn more GOE points. But after all TT was not the judge. lol

ITA and that's a worry which Michelle has no control over unless if she is definitely flawless.

 

[mzheng]

ITA and that's a worry which Michelle has no control over unless if she is definitely flawless.

That's where her comments after the worlds (in one of Phil Hersh's article) came from "A level 3 spin IS a level 3 spin, no matter how u do it"....Flawless still weren't help her. Her well done level 1 SitSpin (well centered) had earned her negative GOE, while Carol's traveled terrible level 1 layback spin get 0 GOE. I'm not going to get into some of her jumps GOE compares to others.

 

[R.D.]

What does GOE stand for again?

 

[MKbeauty]

re. MK

It was GOEs which hold Kwan down. Judges were more strict on her GOEs than the skaters placed above her. If you compare the detail protocol sheet among the top 4 ladies. And to think that TT's comments right before lady's competetion started, you would've thought Michelle would've earn more GOE points. But after all TT was not the judge. lol

Hi Mzheng - are you referring to Tatiana Tarosova? If so, what did she say? Every time I think about the judging at Worlds, I get a headache.

On a happier note, I saw Michelle skate last night at COI, and she was amazing. She landed a 2A, 3F/2T, 3L, 3F, 3S & 3L, 2 SFL's, great footwork and ended with a dramatic knee slide. She also landed 4 double axels in a circular pattern during the closing number. The best part for me was how happy and confident she looked - just put a smile on my face.

P.S. to Red Dog - GOE stand for Grade of Execution.

 

[R.D.]

P.S. to Red Dog - GOE stand for Grade of Execution.

Thanks for answering my question

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

That's where her comments after the worlds (in one of Phil Hersh's article) came from "A level 3 spin IS a level 3 spin, no matter how u do it"....Flawless still weren't help her. Her well done level 1 SitSpin (well centered) had earned her negative GOE, while Carol's traveled terrible level 1 layback spin get 0 GOE. I'm not going to get into some of her jumps GOE compares to others.

And no skater can beat Irina in travelling on spins. Look at your tapes; one of them, she did a camel spin close to the boards and brought it over to close to the center of the arena. Oh well, she did perfect 3x3s and with that one's mind cannot fathom other errors.

Joe

 

[MKbeauty]

re. COI

And no skater can beat Irina in travelling on spins.

I saw Irina skate at COI, too, and she did her double bielman. I'm sure it's difficult to twist your body into that position, however, it really isn't pretty. First, she struggles getting into each position and then travels halfway down the ice while spinning.

 

[mzheng]

Hi Mzheng - are you referring to Tatiana Tarosova? If so, what did she say? Every time I think about the judging at Worlds, I get a headache.

Yes. I mean Tatiana Tarosova. It was reported at FSU that she watched their practice made comments like '.... as of now Irina has to REFINE every of her jumps and spins....' See protocol sheet yourself.

Oh well, she did perfect 3x3s and with that one's mind cannot fathom other errors.

You nailed it.

 

[jenaj]

I have no doubt whatsoever that MIchelle will be in Torino. And I agree that it doesn't really matter, except to her personally, where she places. It will be a long time, if ever, before anyone else accomplishes what she has. And it will be a long time before any skater raises as much interest in the sport as she does. Even on the Sasha boards, the Kwan threads are the ones with the most replies. When she retires, ladies figure skating will be like the NBA without Michael Jordan.

 

[tdnuva]

When she retires, ladies figure skating in the US will be like the NBA without Michael Jordan. (maybe *g*)

 

[lavender]

Yep and the other countries need US to thrive financially to help the sport as a whole.

 

[tdnuva]

Yep and the other countries need US to thrive financially to help the sport as a whole.

? (afaik the US does not help skating in my country in any way *g*)

 

[Linny]

Usa

Tours like COI include skaters from other countries, thus helping skating in other countries.
Linny

 

[mzheng]

ISU fundding used to come from the contracts to US Corp. ?

 

[SkateFan4Life]

I, for one, was really perplexed at Michelle Kwan's lanquid, half-hearted attempt
at Worlds last week. This girl has been competing at Worlds for a decade, and she has a glorious record of five World titles, three silver medals, and one bronze medal. Clearly, she knows how to compete and how to win.

Yet, with all of her experience, Kwan has not taken the time to really learn the new judging system and what it takes to score high with this system. Other skaters have successfully adjusted their programs to meet the requirements of the COP, and they have won medals and/or placed high in their competitions.

Kwan's qualifying round skate was horrible, by her standard. She looked as though she was skating in molasses. Where was the speed, fire, determination, and confidence? Geez -- she barely went through the motions in the qualifying round, and her scores reflected the mediocracy (for her) of that skate. While Kwan's short program and long program were improved, she still wasn't skating "outside of the box". What I saw was a tentative skater who skated within herself and gave a performance that she, obviously, thought was good enough to win.

Well, Michelle, it's time for you to wake up and smell the coffee. What happened to your triple/triples and other moves that would have increased your technical score?

 

[Mathman]

ISU funding used to come from the contracts to US Corp. ?

I don't know whether the ISU gets any money directly from sponsors such as Marshalls and Campbells.

But corporate sponsorship of events is what drives the television contracts. When the new contract with ABC television went down from $20 million to $5 million, the ISU immeditely had to cut expenses, such as the prize money for the Grand Prix events. All of a sudden the "prix" is not so "grand" anymore, and those skaters who pay attention to the bottom line are more interested in doing the higher-paying cheesefests.

In many countries there is some sort of governmental "ministry of sport" that gives money to the national federation. The trouble with this is that they expect results in return for their investment. I believe that Great Britain, for instance, went so long without winning any medals that figure skating was downgraded to a minor sport. (As Ellen Kestnbaum so aptly puts it in Culture on Ice, the British philosophy is, this can't be much of sport if we are no good at it, LOL.)

I am not sure of the details about that, but I have read that Kerr and Kerr among others have to scramble to make ends meet.

The French federation has been in bankruptcy for some time now. According to Sonia Bianchetti's book, former president Didier said, it's a shame that we have to make political deals with powerful voting blocs in the ISU. But if we don't, no medals for France, which in turn means no government money.

Mathman

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Other skaters have successfully adjusted their programs to meet the requirements of the COP, and they have won medals and/or placed high in their competitions.

And Kwan still beat almost all the girls who tailored their programs to COP to the fullest at Worlds. Overmarked...undermarked, she still placed top 4.

 

[mzheng]

I, for one, was really perplexed at Michelle Kwan's lanquid, half-hearted attempt
at Worlds last week. This girl has been competing at Worlds for a decade, and she has a glorious record of five World titles, three silver medals, and one bronze medal. Clearly, she knows how to compete and how to win.

Yet, with all of her experience, Kwan has not taken the time to really learn the new judging system and what it takes to score high with this system. Other skaters have successfully adjusted their programs to meet the requirements of the COP, and they have won medals and/or placed high in their competitions.

Kwan's qualifying round skate was horrible, by her standard. She looked as though she was skating in molasses. Where was the speed, fire, determination, and confidence? Geez -- she barely went through the motions in the qualifying round, and her scores reflected the mediocracy (for her) of that skate. While Kwan's short program and long program were improved, she still wasn't skating "outside of the box". What I saw was a tentative skater who skated within herself and gave a performance that she, obviously, thought was good enough to win.

Well, Michelle, it's time for you to wake up and smell the coffee. What happened to your triple/triples and other moves that would have increased your technical score?

Did you read MM's post. MK's program the LP had about the same base points as Irina. So your claim of her program was not tailor to CoP was just wrong. She just diddn't deliver as planned. That's it. Gave the girl a break, even she dosn't have a sad story running on her side, she did competed in consectively 12 Worlds. Is it due to a poor show or what?