Michelle - The End or a New Beginning?

[Joesitz (RIP)]

From what I am reading about her exhibitions with COI, Kwan is including all her triples. This is a good sign. It's actually a practice session in front of a live audience. She must be, althought I haven't read anything, also working the spins and getting used to transitions into elements. The whole thing seems to be a practice session and making money at the same time. Maybe she is serious about winning. I'd like to see her do a 3x3 in those exhibitions and get used to them.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

It is hard to guess whether Michelle is serious about winning or not. I have read estimates that winning an Olympic gold medal translates into about 10 to 15 million dollars in endorsement and touring opportunities. But Michelle already has 10 to 15 million dollars in endorsement and touring opportunities.

I read a recent interview with Anton Sikharulidze in which he responded to questions about how he felt about the whole Salt lake City thing. He said, that was 100 years ago, I don't even remember how I felt, I am just trying to make the best career I can as a professional skater.

On the other hand, there are skaters who take great pride and joy in their medals long afterward (Katarina Witt, for instance), and others who seem still to wallow in what might have been (Roz Summers and Linda Fratianne).

Joe, I see one problem with Michelle doing such a bang-up job of skating Bolero with COI. She might do so well that she will decide to keep it for next season.

MM

 

[brad640]

It is hard to guess whether Michelle is serious about winning or not.

I think Michelle is always serious about competing, and whether she wins depends on everyone else. I enjoyed all of her performances at worlds this year because she never stopped competing or had a meltdown like many of the worlds medalists from 04 (Shizuka, Joubert, Lindeman). I have never seen Michelle give up on a performance like some of those skaters did, even when her body was changing in 97. From time to time, she has not completely believed in her music and choreography, such as Miraculous Mandarin and the Eric Clapton SP, and I think Bolero should be included in this group, but she chose not to change it mid season because of the demands of preparing for CoP.

Supposedly when figures were phased out, skating careers were supposed to become much shorter because of the demands of triple jumps, but it seems that Michelle has proven that theory wrong. I think worlds was niether the beginning or the end for Michelle, but rather it was a continuation of her long career. I hope she will try to compete in the 2010 Olympics to make a statement like Katarina did in 94 with Where Have all the Flowers Gone.

 

[curious]

I, for one, was really perplexed at Michelle Kwan's lanquid, half-hearted attempt
at Worlds last week. This girl has been competing at Worlds for a decade, and she has a glorious record of five World titles, three silver medals, and one bronze medal. Clearly, she knows how to compete and how to win.

Yet, with all of her experience, Kwan has not taken the time to really learn the new judging system and what it takes to score high with this system. Other skaters have successfully adjusted their programs to meet the requirements of the COP, and they have won medals and/or placed high in their competitions.

Kwan's qualifying round skate was horrible, by her standard. She looked as though she was skating in molasses. Where was the speed, fire, determination, and confidence? Geez -- she barely went through the motions in the qualifying round, and her scores reflected the mediocracy (for her) of that skate. While Kwan's short program and long program were improved, she still wasn't skating "outside of the box". What I saw was a tentative skater who skated within herself and gave a performance that she, obviously, thought was good enough to win.

Well, Michelle, it's time for you to wake up and smell the coffee. What happened to your triple/triples and other moves that would have increased your technical score?

triple-triples? only in practices lol! She does great at home but not overseas. She will be lucky to medal in turino.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

This topic is about MK. It is not about predicting the Olympics.

It's far too early to predict the Olys. Let's see what happens in the GPs this year, and the individual Nats, and, of course, Euros. And the inevitable injuries. From those competitions, we may get a better view on predicting the Olys. around February 2006.

Now for Michelle - it seems she is trying to solidify what elements she already has by her performances at COI. I am assuming she and Rafael will be working on what's missing from the CoP. She may well be ready by Oly time.

Questions: Is she going to skate the Olys? If so, will she get better music for her LP? or Will she announce her retirement at the Nats for a grand hometown ovation? I believe if she skates the GPs she will skate the Olys. JMO

Joe

 

[attyfan]

Questions: Is she going to skate the Olys? If so, will she get better music for her LP? or Will she announce her retirement at the Nats for a grand hometown ovation? I believe if she skates the GPs she will skate the Olys. JMO Joe

After the ISU's letter (no 592), does Michelle have the option of skipping the GP if she wants to skate in Turino?

 

[Mathman]

Yes, I think so. I think there will be lots of skaters at the Olympics who didn't compete in the Grand Prix. I'm pretty sure the rules say that each member of the ISU has the right to send its national champion, regardless of his or her past competitive history.

Mathman

 

[apache88]

Holy cow! What a long thread.

It is hard to guess whether Michelle is serious about winning or not. I have read estimates that winning an Olympic gold medal translates into about 10 to 15 million dollars in endorsement and touring opportunities. But Michelle already has 10 to 15 million dollars in endorsement and touring opportunities.
MM

Her going to 2005 Worlds unprepared surprised the hell out of me. That was so uncharacteristic of a great competitor. Maybe she meant it when she said "lazy" in one interview Ok joke aside, I would think she was just overconfident. I always believe Michelle most of the time is serious about winning especially when it comes to major titles. The last Worlds really bit her in the *** for her miscalculated strategy. Maybe it's a good thing because she has sounded very determined to brush up for the COP since. And I always believe Michelle covets that Oly gold.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Yes, I think so. I think there will be lots of skaters at the Olympics who didn't compete in the Grand Prix. I'm pretty sure the rules say that each member of the ISU has the right to send its national champion, regardless of his or her past competitive history.

Mathman

Not according to the memo. As a seeded skater, Kwan is obligated to do at least two GP events next year, unless she has a medical excuse or some vague notion of another good excuse that is accepted by the ISU.

There isn't a US skater who would be exempt from GP, if invited. Among top US skaters who aren't seeded, only Bebe Liang, Emily Hughes, and Angela Nikodinov are not eligible for "round four" selection (top 36 in World Standings), but everyone who has ISU eligibility can be selected in "round five."

 

[attyfan]

... Her going to 2005 Worlds unprepared surprised the hell out of me. That was so uncharacteristic of a great competitor. Maybe she meant it when she said "lazy" in one interview Ok joke aside, ...

I don't think Michelle was unprepared; she had too many problems with landing jumps, and, she did place third in both the SP and the free skate. I think, instead, that she has not yet fully committed herself to Olys, as she is not completely sure about risking another heartbreak. This, in turn, causes her to limit her risk of injury (i.e., not doing the GP) and this is affecting her mentally.

 

[Piel]

And if she competes in th GP next year all we will hear is there goes Kwan hogging up the chance for one of the younger gals to get more international experience.

All of the griping about her not doing the GP has me thinking.....those who appear to be non Kwans are really Kwaniacs who just can't get enough of the Kween! Welcome to the light all of you closet Kwans!

 

[mzheng]

All of the griping about her not doing the GP has me thinking.....those who appear to be non Kwans are really Kwaniacs who just can't get enough of the Kween! Welcome to the light all of you closet Kwans!

 

[R.D.]

And if she competes in th GP next year all we will hear is there goes Kwan hogging up the chance for one of the younger gals to get more international experience.

All of the griping about her not doing the GP has me thinking.....those who appear to be non Kwans are really Kwaniacs who just can't get enough of the Kween! Welcome to the light all of you closet Kwans!

That's got to be one of the funniest comments I've heard in a while. Closet Kwan fans? Say it ain't so! They are the most outspoken group of skating fans on the internet! In fact fans of other skaters are probably in hiding because of the Kwan fans.

 

[Mathman]

...As a seeded skater, Kwan is obligated to do at least two GP events next year, unless she has a medical excuse or some vague notion of another good excuse that is accepted by the ISU.

Hockeyfan, that is the part that I am trying to get a handle on. What is the authority upon which this "obligation" rests? Mr. Cinquanta expressing his hopes and wishes in a "memo" to a third party does not seem to me to rise to the status of "obliging" skaters to do anything at all.

Does anyone know what the actual charter and by-laws of the ISU say about this?

Mathman

 

[LegalGirl82]

Okay, Mathman, I tiptoed through the ISU rules and regulations this evening and I went back to Red Dog's initial post from last November which quoted Speedy's memo.

The memo cites Article 2.1 of the "GP Announcement" which I couldn't find. It also cites Rule 125, Paragraph 4. To paraphrase that rule (which is oddly listed under the heading of Conduct of Competitors Towards Officials), it states that the Council may exclude a skater from participation in events, including the Olys if that skater can be proved to have acted against the spirit of the Constitution or the Regulations or otherwise improperly. This next part is a direct quote: "Improper conduct by a skater includes refusal, for other than medical or other justifiable reason to participate in ISU Events in accordance with commitments established by the ISU and the Members concerned. (For confirmation of illness and injury, see Rule 104, paragraph 17.)"

"Justifiable reason" is not defined anywhere that I could see, and I still say that leaves a hole large enough for Jumpin Joe to do his gorgeous delayed axel right through it.

Now, Rule 104, paragraph 17 is under the heading "Exhibitions" and actually has more to do with a skaters "commitment" to participate in post competition exhibitions and is fairly detailed in the consequences of a skater not participating in an exhibition unless the skater obtains a medical certificate from an ISU medical advisor or a doctor in consultation with the medical advisor.

Finally, in Rule 136, Paragraph 6 (which is one of only two paragraphs under that rule which does not have a heading), on its face deals with the obligation of Members (i.e., the US, Canada, etc.) to give skaters who place within the first 10 places in an ISU championship the year before first priority in participation the next year. And again, it has the same language as in Rule 125, Paragraph 4 about sanctions if a skater refuses to participate without medical or other justified reasons.

I can only guess, based on the lack of clarity in these rules, that the thought that skaters would opt out of the GP never crossed the mind of the folks who put these rules together. Ironically enough, on the very next page, Rule 137, the rules go into great detail about who pays for what during competitions on behalf of the competitors and officials, such as Paragraph 3 "In Speed Skating, at the site of an event, the expenses for room and meals may be provided or paid by the organizing Member or affiliated club for the days of the entire event and for one day after it, at hotels designated by it".

 

[Mathman]

Thanks a million for that research, Legalgal. I tried to look it up myself, but the ISU web site beat me up, since I didn't really know what I was looking for.

Well, that's food for thought. I don't know why I am perversely hoping for a big fight on this issue (I don't think there will be one, though). But it would relieve some of the off-season boredom.

The memo cites Article 2.1 of the "GP Announcement" which I couldn't find. It also cites Rule 125, Paragraph 4. To paraphrase that rule (which is oddly listed under the heading of Conduct of Competitors Towards Officials), it states that the Council may exclude a skater from participation in events, including the Olys if that skater can be proved to have acted against the spirit of the Constitution or the Regulations or otherwise improperly. This next part is a direct quote: "Improper conduct by a skater includes refusal, for other than medical or other justifiable reason to participate in ISU Events in accordance with commitments established by the ISU and the Members concerned. (For confirmation of illness and injury, see Rule 104, paragraph 17.)"

I just looked up the membership of the "Council" that has arrogated this privilege. Poor Michelle, her goose is cooked. Two of the four members for figure skating are David Dore and Phyllis Howard. Plus, there are four members from speedskating. Sounds like the Speedy fan club to me.

Mathman

 

[brad640]

Thanks LegalGirl for the great memorandum of ISU law.

Now, Rule 104, paragraph 17 is under the heading "Exhibitions" and actually has more to do with a skaters "commitment" to participate in post competition exhibitions and is fairly detailed in the consequences of a skater not participating in an exhibition unless the skater obtains a medical certificate from an ISU medical advisor or a doctor in consultation with the medical advisor.

I find it interesting that the ISU makes public statements criticizing skaters like Plushenko for skating in shows, and yet they coerce skaters to skate an exhibition at every GP event. I assume that the skaters do not receive other money for this other than the prize money for the competition.

 

[LegalGirl82]

Thanks a million for that research, Legalgal. I tried to look it up myself, but the ISU web site beat me up, since I didn't really know what I was looking for.

Well, that's food for thought. I don't know why I am perversely hoping for a big fight on this issue (I don't think there will be one, though). But it would relieve some of the off-season boredom.

I just looked up the membership of the "Council" that has arrogated this privilege. Poor Michelle, her goose is cooked. Two of the four members for figure skating are David Dore and Phyllis Howard. Plus, there are four members from speedskating. Sounds like the Speedy fan club to me.

Mathman

Mathman and Brad640, should either of you want to see the rules for yourself, at the ISU web site, click on ISU Rules on the blue menu at the left. Then look in the following folders:

2004 Constitution
2004 General Regulations
2004 Regulations for Singles and Pairs
ISU Communications

The ISU Communications are a bit to wade through. The titles aren't too clear, so I ended up opening quite a few to see if they applied to this topic.

The 2004 General Regulations has the rules mentioned in Speedy's memo.

It appears that only the Congress, which meets every two years, can amend the Constitution and Regulations. The next time the Congress meets in a regular session will be in 2006. An Extraordinary Congress can be held if the Council considers it necessary or upon written demand with reasons, by one-fifth of the Members.

 

[Mathman]

It appears that only the Congress, which meets every two years, can amend the Constitution and Regulations. The next time the Congress meets in a regular session will be in 2006. An Extraordinary Congress can be held if the Council considers it necessary or upon written demand with reasons, by one-fifth of the Members.

Thanks again, Legalgirl.

My impression is that in practice, Cinquanta and his council do quite a bit of ruling by executive fiat, then present the Congress with a fiat accompli to be rubber stamped. This was certainly the case with the new judging system. The Congress approved a resolution to try out the CoP as an experiment. A few months later Speedy made the announcement that the NJS was henceforth the official law of the land.

Several federations, including USFS, protested this flaunting of the ISU's own rules and procedures, but to no avail.

Mathman

 

[R.D.]

Somehow I feel this new scoring system was rushed into place without enough testing or tweaking. IMO one GP season isn't enough. If they thought that this would improve the credibility of the judging, they've got another think coming. This new system will be exposed to the world at the Olympics next year and it's barely one season old. Still very confusing and a lot of mistakes have happened.