Mikhail Kolyada

[vorravorra]

Well may be, or maybe when you are in the middle of trouble it is harder to see your way out

I am not sure Misha himself sees the situation as quite so catastrophic. And on re-watches I can say that even his FS at NHK wasn't that bad - skated at a good speed, all level 4s - much better that at CoR and even better that at the Panin Memorial in these particular aspects. And that in spite of the two quads with falls taking their toll. You can see where the work has gone. Yes, with the jumps they took a big risk and it didn't pay off this time, but you have to factor in jetlag and exhaustion after a long plane trip that had resulted in a tripled 4T just the day before (which hadn't happened since the Panin Memorial last season). They obviously would have drawn certain conclusions from the performance, and there is no reason to think the work done in the weeks between NHK and the Nationals will not produce any improvement.
As for his 4Lz not being sufficiently stable - we have to remember that it took Misha over two seasons of competitions to get his "money jump" - 3A - to where it is now. He takes a while getting new things right as he has said in the interview. If it takes just a year of competitions to achieve some stability on 4Lz we should consider ourselves lucky.

 

[gmyers]

It may be true but sounds a bit too harsh - lets not forget Mika is the one who saved 2 spots for Russian men in the first place! Even if he is not at his best at Nats there is still time to regain form for Euros. My hunch is however that Voronov will be Russian Champion this year with Mika/ Kovtun in second/ third place (in no particular order!) or if either of them falls apart altogether, Petrov will take the bronze again.



Ironically the 4T+3T and solo 4T have a base value of 24.9 (14.6+10.3) which is more than 4lz and 4T -23.9 (13.6+10.3).
With the latest FS layout as at NHK they aim at about 88pt base value, last season his FS had base value of 78 which with GOE gave him in Boston 93 TES. This season due to mistakes/falls all his FS were from 63.11 (Finlandia) -65.99 (NHK) to 71.04 (CoR) in TES.
One of the issues for me is that they started trying a new quad right at the start of the season without gaining any decent form first - this along with unfortunate mess with his SP caused such bad start of the season. Instead of correcting this the things only got worse as the season progresses - endless changes of layout, switch from 4S to 4lz. IMHO when 4S didn't work out at B-comp ie Finlandia they should have put a hold on a second quad (I mean second as a different quad) till the next small competition, continuing to work on it in practice of course. The GPs were too important events for experiments, if Mika was to go to GPF (as he realistically could have done) it would have gained him as much ground (and probably more) with the Fed than an elusive second quad.
Last season Valentina seemed to be in total command of the situation - between the Nats and Euros she was saying in interviews that Mika would definitely try 4S in Bratislava undoubtedly due to the same pressure. As we know it never happened and I don't remember any particular outcry about it afterwards.
This season all common sense seems to be gone out of the window - so more is the pity.

Edit: there is only so much one can do in given time. If to compare last season's FS, it is gone from a 5/3 to 4/4 layout + there are more transitions in the program + attempts of second quad. Is there any wonder that Mika is unable to skate clean?

Well stated. It's why I described kolyada as projecting total panic this season. Let's do this! No no let's try that! No let's go back to the other thing! Isn't figure skating exhausting enough doing the same thing all season?

 

[vorravorra]

Well stated. It's why I described kolyada as projecting total panic this season. Let's do this! No no let's try that! No let's go back to the other thing! Isn't figure skating exhausting enough doing the same thing all season?

It makes sense to try something different if the first thing doesn't work (which it didn't). There is no point in continuing to bang your head against the wall. But it would be prudent to settle on something after all.

 

[gmyers]

It makes sense to try something different if the first thing doesn't work (which it didn't). There is no point in continuing to bang your head against the wall. But it would be prudent to settle on something after all.

I just hope whatever he does at Russian nationals he keeps for the rest of the season. I'm sure he can qualify for euros. I hope he isn't exhausted by all the changes. He is experimenting every competition which is rare. I have complain so many times about skaters that don't change what's not working so now when one is I am complaining about that. What's right? Not sure. Hopefully this will work out for Kolyada!

 

[vorravorra]

I just hope whatever he does at Russian nationals he keeps for the rest of the season. I'm sure he can qualify for euros. I hope he isn't exhausted by all the changes. He is experimenting every competition which is rare. I have complain so many times about skaters that don't change what's not working so now when one is I am complaining about that. What's right? Not sure. Hopefully this will work out for Kolyada!

What they wanted to do this season was 4T-4S. When that layout didn't work in competitions for whatever reason they were faced with the need to come up with something else, which is unfortunate. I also hope they have made their decision with regard to the final layout (with possible minor changes later on which happened last season too). At the very least they have to decide on which quads to go with and concentrate on them.

 

[Spiral]

Misha broke his leg in the summer of 2014 when his blade got caught in a crack in the ice during a twizzle, and sat out most of the following season as a result. That was his only figure skating injury in his entire career, he has actually been quite lucky in the matters of health (knock on wood).

I’ve heard that he’d had off-ice injuries. Wouldn’t that affect his skating same as on-ice injuries?

Things he said, things people who know him said and what I have seen for myself. Misha had a problem stabilising jumps when he was younger, so his skates were rather hit and miss. It was similar with his 4T last season, but it took less time to get it right than with say 3A - he was still having trouble with the latter in 2013-2014 which was his third season of doing it in competitions. 3Lo also used to be his nemesis.

Then why did he make mistakes at COR this season? Why his 4S was stable in practice, but not in competition? This always seems to point to nerves to me.

I’m not saying that one should only try new jumps in small competitions, but it doesn’t make sense to me to try the most difficult element that exists in fs in a big competition after just three weeks of practicing it. I also don’t think that he had nothing to lose at NHK after the SP – he was 4th with a good shot at 3rd. And I do think getting into GPF counts a lot with Rus Fed. If Mikhail had been the only Russian man to get into the GPF, I believe he would have scored hugely with his Fed.

But my main point is that IMO both his federation and Russian fs fans should stop putting pressure on him to get a podium content in a jiffy and let himself and his coach who indeed know best decide what to try when.

He’s very young and the upcoming Olympics doesn’t need to be his last, but if the sudden pressure to deliver the impossible ruins his confidence, he might not be able to get it back.

 

[cathlen]

Mika would have to be 2nd in NHK to qualify to GPF, so he really had nothing to lose. (he was 4th at Rostelecom, not 3rd, and even if he was, two 3rd would mean tie breakers with Adam Rippon) I don't think his off-podium places at GP series will damage his confidence, after all, he wasn't winning GP medals before, he didn't podium at Europeans either, but he was still second ranked European at Worlds. I'm actually all for trying jumps. Yuzuru Hanyu was practising 4Lo for quite time now, and he didn't land it well in GP, so practise time sometimes mean nothing. Shoma Uno has landed 4F after very short time (regardles of it quality) after all. I'd just wait and trust him and his team in what they're doing.

Lately we have lots of analyzing Mika's strategy but little support and cheering in here.. I fell like it's Edge forum and not FanFest After Worlds people have too high expectations from him, let him do thing in his own pace! He's not a clueless 16 years old kid anymore, he'll figure out what is best for him.

 

[Tutto]

Lately we have lots of analyzing Mika's strategy but little support and cheering in here.. I fell like it's Edge forum and not FanFest After Worlds people have too high expectations from him, let him do thing in his own pace! He's not a clueless 16 years old kid anymore, he'll figure out what is best for him.

Only because we care!!!

 

[Tutto]

QUOTE=vorravorra;1569865

They did what you are suggesting at CoR - decided to play it safe and left the second quad out in FS. Had it worked they would have probably done it again - but it didn't.

I am not so sure. It's true that 3S was on submitted layout and 3S he did, but the way he was preparing for the jump I bet he was aiming at 4S (BESP guy commented too on that unusually long preparation) when it didn't happen the spark went out of the program. My guess is they were trying to overcome that mental block and see if it would have been easier for Mika to go for a quad sal when nobody expected him to do so but sadly it didn't work which in its turn didn't do much for his confidence.

The reason they tried 4S this season was not because of pressure but because it was good in practices. One has to try a jump at competitions sometime. 4Lz on the other hand might have had more to do with pressure.
A 4/4 layout is still easier than what just about everyone else does these days. And Misha's program doesn't have a gazillion transitions, what it does have is a lot of choreography which of course takes up energy. But choreography is Misha's strength, it would be wrong to dispense with it in the name of a second quad. And Shoma-style 2.5-transition programs are hardly the way to go. Misha didn't really skate clean last season either till Worlds. I don't think he's ever skated clean with any consistency in his entire career, maybe he just can't.

4/4 layout may be easier compared to some other skaters' but compared to what Mika used to do it is more difficult especially as he had stamina issues to skate even easier layout last season. i just feel like all the changes they made this season good & necessary as these are, are not matched by his physical form & ability to actually execute. I don't doubt for a minute that Mika's 4S was and is good in practice but evidently not ready to do it as a part of 4.5 min program, maybe that mental block he's got with 4S is down to that he, deep down, knows he is not ready yet to skate the long program with 2 quads in it.
Lots of my frustration over this situation is also because I feel like Valentina is out of her depth here and they have to go the way of trial & error which is and will be very tough on Mika. I wish things were easier for him, I wish he were allowed to walk before running. IMHO it would be totally acceptable this season to concentrate on 4/4 (or even 3/5) layout, more transitions and maybe another 4T in combination working on other quads in practice. A lot has been said about next season being Olympic but realistically even with the second quad Mika will not be in medal contention in Pyeongchang there are at least 6 men who are too far ahead of him. As Spiral said earlier, what is wrong with establishing himself in the top six first before moving to the top three?

 

[Tutto]

He’s very young and the upcoming Olympics doesn’t need to be his last, but if the sudden pressure to deliver the impossible ruins his confidence, he might not be able to get it back.

This :thumbsup:

 

[cathlen]

I think you're underestimating Mika. (or exagerate a little) He's not at puberty when everything changes and a bad competition will make him lose his confidence entirely. He's not a fragile flower, he's a strong young man! He won't break so easily.

 

[Tutto]

I think you're underestimating Mika. (or exagerate a little) He's not at puberty when everything changes and a bad competition will make him lose his confidence entirely. He's not a fragile flower, he's a strong young man! He won't break so easily.

Se were Gachinsky & Kovtun to begin with...
But let's hope things will get better as the season progresses. Sport is all about ups & downs. Boston was such success that some 'down' was to be expected. As long as he makes the team...
Don't know about exaggeration, when a skater drops from being 8th in World (last season rankings) to 14th letting in front of him all teammates including a quadless Petrov, and his scores plummet as low as 40 points below his PB - I think it is a cause for concern just a bit?

 

[Spiral]

Mika would have to be 2nd in NHK to qualify to GPF, so he really had nothing to lose. (he was 4th at Rostelecom, not 3rd, and even if he was, two 3rd would mean tie breakers with Adam Rippon) I don't think his off-podium places at GP series will damage his confidence, after all, he wasn't winning GP medals before, he didn't podium at Europeans either, but he was still second ranked European at Worlds.

You’re right about his chances for the final, but I think that even if he’d medaled at a GP event, in the absence of male finalists, Rus Fed would have found it impressive.

I'm actually all for trying jumps. Yuzuru Hanyu was practising 4Lo for quite time now, and he didn't land it well in GP, so practise time sometimes mean nothing. Shoma Uno has landed 4F after very short time (regardles of it quality) after all.

The difference is that Yuzuru and Shoma still get high marks and medals, even with mistakes, because of the overall more complex content and higher PCS.

I'd just wait and trust him and his team in what they're doing.

And I wish Rus Fed and Russian fs fans would trust Mikhail and his team in what they’re doing, stop pressuring him and just wait for him to develop at his natural pace.

I think you're underestimating Mika. (or exagerate a little) He's not at puberty when everything changes and a bad competition will make him lose his confidence entirely. He's not a fragile flower, he's a strong young man! He won't break so easily.

I don’t think his confidence will likely be broken from a sub-par skate or two, or from failing to win any medals at the GP and qualify for the final, but I’m afraid it might from pressure to deliver top results before he’s able to. Sadly, I’ve seen it happen too many times to various skaters, both Russian and American. I’d hate to see it happen again to a very talented skater, just because some officials and fans fail to learn from their mistakes. If he proves able to withstand such pressure and flourish, I’ll be most happy to admit that he’s a superman and that I needn’t have worried about him.

Back to the fanfest, I don’t know if Mihkail’s pictures with Balde and “the great Lambiel” at the NHK banquet have been posted.
https://vk.com/mk_4ever?z=photo58087231_456239032/album58087231_00/rev
https://vk.com/mk_4ever?z=photo58087231_456239033/album58087231_00/rev

ht tps://vk. com/mk_4ever?z=photo58087231_456239032%2Falbum58087231_00%2Frev
ht tps://vk. com/mk_4ever?z=photo58087231_456239033%2Falbum58087231_00%2Frev

 

[vorravorra]

Se were Gachinsky & Kovtun to begin with...
But let's hope things will get better as the season progresses. Sport is all about ups & downs. Boston was such success that some 'down' was to be expected. As long as he makes the team...
Don't know about exaggeration, when a skater drops from being 8th in World (last season rankings) to 14th letting in front of him all teammates including a quadless Petrov, and his scores plummet as low as 40 points below his PB - I think it is a cause for concern just a bit?

Misha has a higher SB than Kovtun and Petrov and even Voronov, the former two also got worse GP placements than him. So how could he have dropped behind all of them based on this season's results? And if last season is any indication we have to wait till much later in the season for him reaching or surpassing his PB.

 

[vorravorra]

I’ve heard that he’d had off-ice injuries. Wouldn’t that affect his skating same as on-ice injuries?

Yes, he broke his arm by slipping on wet stairs for instance. But those injuries happened in childhood, not in recent years. There was never any mention of health problems negatively affecting Misha's skating (apart from the ankle fracture, obviously), including from people who trained with him.

Then why did he make mistakes at COR this season? Why his 4S was stable in practice, but not in competition? This always seems to point to nerves to me.

I’m not saying that one should only try new jumps in small competitions, but it doesn’t make sense to me to try the most difficult element that exists in fs in a big competition after just three weeks of practicing it. I also don’t think that he had nothing to lose at NHK after the SP – he was 4th with a good shot at 3rd. And I do think getting into GPF counts a lot with Rus Fed. If Mikhail had been the only Russian man to get into the GPF, I believe he would have scored hugely with his Fed.

But my main point is that IMO both his federation and Russian fs fans should stop putting pressure on him to get a podium content in a jiffy and let himself and his coach who indeed know best decide what to try when.

He’s very young and the upcoming Olympics doesn’t need to be his last, but if the sudden pressure to deliver the impossible ruins his confidence, he might not be able to get it back.

I was talking about Misha's instability before his injury. There wasn't any pressure then. And I am not saying nerves never had anything to do with it, I am saying nerves were not the main reason. As for CoR, the mistakes were due to physical factors as well as nerves, namely Misha running out of steam at the end of the skate (which he talked about in his interview). To properly evaluate the effect of nerves we would need to see a performance in good form.

I doubt fans have that much effect. Internet talk about whether Misha should or shouldn't jump 4Lz is unlikely to have much influence on whether he does. Fed is a different matter, of course, but we don't actually know what's going on with it, it's all guesswork on our part.

The difference is that Yuzuru and Shoma still get high marks and medals, even with mistakes, because of the overall more complex content and higher PCS.

Nobody does a new jump in competitions without mistakes from the beginning, certainly not Misha. His first 4T attempts were not especially successful (and a lot of later attempts weren't either, it was pretty unreliable even at the end of last season, although changing the entry helped). I am not saying a jump should be attempted after a week of practice, but the only way to stabilise a jump in competitions is to do it in competitions.

 

[vorravorra]

A show on Match TV devoted to figure skating with a focus on GP 2016. Misha is featured from 21.50 to 25.00. It was filmed some time after CoR but before NHK and you can see him land a perfect 4Lz during a practice from 24.00 (to much applause from onlookers :luv17: ), but they say that it's still not easy for him which is not surprising. The jump obviously needs more work, but stamina to skate the rest of the program even after a successful 4Lz is at least as important as the jump itself.

http://matchtv.ru/programms/vnm/matchtvvideo_NI698542_clip_Vse_na_Match_Vse_chto_vam_nuzhno_znat_o_predstojashhem_finale_Gran_pri_po_figurnomu_kataniju_

Edit: the video uploaded to youtube for those outside Russia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcZHUht0AVI

 

[vorravorra]

I am not so sure. It's true that 3S was on submitted layout and 3S he did, but the way he was preparing for the jump I bet he was aiming at 4S (BESP guy commented too on that unusually long preparation) when it didn't happen the spark went out of the program. My guess is they were trying to overcome that mental block and see if it would have been easier for Mika to go for a quad sal when nobody expected him to do so but sadly it didn't work which in its turn didn't do much for his confidence.

I am not sure because he used the same approach in the test skates and he obviously never planned to jump a quad there. What would be the point in changing the jump entry just for one performance? And his previous pops were to a double not a triple. Anyway, if you look at it this way then doing a 4Lz at NHK was a good thing because it obviously boosted his confidence based on what he said in interviews.

4/4 layout may be easier compared to some other skaters' but compared to what Mika used to do it is more difficult especially as he had stamina issues to skate even easier layout last season. i just feel like all the changes they made this season good & necessary as these are, are not matched by his physical form & ability to actually execute. I don't doubt for a minute that Mika's 4S was and is good in practice but evidently not ready to do it as a part of 4.5 min program, maybe that mental block he's got with 4S is down to that he, deep down, knows he is not ready yet to skate the long program with 2 quads in it.

Why was he able to jump a 4Lz on the first attempt then? (Actually, that's a very interesting question.) A program with a 4Lz is physically harder to skate.

Lots of my frustration over this situation is also because I feel like Valentina is out of her depth here and they have to go the way of trial & error which is and will be very tough on Mika. I wish things were easier for him, I wish he were allowed to walk before running. IMHO it would be totally acceptable this season to concentrate on 4/4 (or even 3/5) layout, more transitions and maybe another 4T in combination working on other quads in practice. A lot has been said about next season being Olympic but realistically even with the second quad Mika will not be in medal contention in Pyeongchang there are at least 6 men who are too far ahead of him. As Spiral said earlier, what is wrong with establishing himself in the top six first before moving to the top three?

Would he be able to hang onto the top 6 with just one quad though? You've just said there are already 6 men ahead of him. He was lucky at Worlds by producing two perfect skates while others faltered. But he isn't going to reliably produce perfect skates and others are not going to be as obliging every time.

I think the idea of "let's go for an easier layout so that he skates clean consistently" doesn't take into account that he has never skated clean consistently in his career with any layout and it's unlikely that he would start now however much we might want it. So any plan that relies on that probably won't work.

 

[vorravorra]

The 4Lz gif:

http://i042.radikal.ru/1612/e9/3d62a3faaddd.gif

 

[cathlen]

The 4Lz gif:

http://i042.radikal.ru/1612/e9/3d62a3faaddd.gif

The height of this jump Mesmerizing! This Lutz can rival Boyang's one and that is REALLY something.

Was Misha saying anything interesting?

 

[Li'Kitsu]

That 4Lz is SO gorgeous Hopefully his practice with that jump goes well