Mira or Joannie?

[passion]

If Mira does triple triple jump and Joannie doesn't, does Mira have a chance of winning nationals?

If Mira nails all her jumps and Joannie has a complete melt down, could this be Mira's year to be champ?

Also, for those who went to the Vancouver event to watch the various skaters on national teams, is Mira's speed/power and edges/flow as good as Joannie's yet? I certainly saw significant improvement, but I had nothing significant to compare it to.

 

[kandidy]

I think I saw one comment during the Olympic about Mira's jumping technic. There was something weird about it. Can't remember what ,though.
I think at this point, overall, Joannie is better.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Mira has participated at her final World Championships. Someone else, be it Cynthia Phaneuf continuing her comeback, Samson, Hawker, or an up and comer, will beat her for the 2nd spot on the World team this coming year.

 

[Tinymavy15]

If Mira does triple triple jump and Joannie doesn't, does Mira have a chance of winning nationals?

No. Kimmie landed the triple axel but still placed behind michelle and sasha. Jumps are not every thing.

 

[SK8LUVR]

I feel that Joannie is Canada's best best to any kind of medal finish or top five at that. The competition in women's skating is very deep. I do not think that Mira will get any better than she is now. I think what Joannie needs is to think that she is good enough to be up there with the top girls in the world. She has to be more confident in her skating. I believe someone already stated this on another thread but I have to say I truly agreed with them. Joannie has all the goods she just needs to get her head in the game and time is running out for her.

 

[russell30]

If Mira does triple triple jump and Joannie doesn't, does Mira have a chance of winning nationals?

If Mira nails all her jumps and Joannie has a complete melt down, could this be Mira's year to be champ?

Also, for those who went to the Vancouver event to watch the various skaters on national teams, is Mira's speed/power and edges/flow as good as Joannie's yet? I certainly saw significant improvement, but I had nothing significant to compare it to.

Mira had a breakthrough year in 2006 and I thought she would improve the following season, but she finished 24th in 2007 worlds after a lot of her jumps were underrotated, she would need to improve her technique and I feel it will be a struggle for her. I agree that Cynthia or Lesley might have an overall better package to take the 2nd spot but Joannie for Canada is in a league of her own, and I have a feeling this will be Joannie's breakthrough season, she seems determined, knows she needs the 3/3 and has the overall package to medal. To do that Joannie needs to focus on all of her elements through the program she makes careless mistakes that she knows she cannot afford in the COP and I wish she would see a sports psychologist to get her in focus. If she surpasses this she will be great to watch and the judges will reward her.

 

[nadster]

Mira has participated at her final World Championships. Someone else, be it Cynthia Phaneuf continuing her comeback, Samson, Hawker, or an up and comer, will beat her for the 2nd spot on the World team this coming year.

I wouldn't be so fast on that. Phaneuf still doesn't have her jumps back. Samson and Hawker are both quite inconsistent ( though they both have the ability to beat Mira with 2 strong programs) .

There are no up and comers. The top junior ladies from last Canadians are very weak and weren't even considered for JGP assignments. The presence of an up and comer would presume depth in the Canadian system which we don't have.

Mira is not showing any signs of improvement and she still dresses sloppily.

She never gets dinged for underrotating jumps at nationals even though that constantly happens at her international events. There have been times that callers at national events will call a jump rotated to keep a skater up ( remember Kimmie's last combo in the SP where she landed the toe forwards but the caller still deemed it a completely rotated jump),

Now I am not saying that the callers were wrong at Canadian nationals ( would have to look at tapes again); just that given Mira's history that there might have been a chance that Mira got credit for rotating jumps that she might not have received credit for in an international competition.

 

[Ladskater]

This is really a tough call - Mira is the "stuff " a good competitor is made of. She is determined and has nerves of steel. However she lacks the finesse of a Joannie. On the other hand, Joannie has "the total package" but sometimes fails to "deliver" when it comes to the crunch. Probably Joannie will be our National champion again - however, on the world stage can she compete with the likes of a Kimmie Meissner or Mao Assada? Will her nerves get to her again? Time will tell.

 

[rain]

To answer the question of the poster of this thread, No, I don't think Mira has a chance to beat Joannie, under any circumstances. I agree with others that she will be fighting maintain her number two spot in Canada.

She is not on Joannie's level. And Rochette actually has had many of her best performances at nationals, where she seems to feel quite comfortable. So I wouldn't say a meltdown there is at all likely.

When I first saw Mira I thought she had a great deal of potential, because she seemed to be a fighter that was always pushing herself to get the technical difficulty. Since then, she has not improved as much as she needed to, and seemed to put little effort into the artistry she needed to acquire to become a real contender. She is now moving into an age range where she will find it much harder to correct her basic problems, such as her jump technique, because they have been so ingrained for so many years.

If Canada had any depth in the ladies field, she'd be in a lot of trouble.

 

[nadster]

I agree Mira has absolutely no chance of beating Rochette unless Rochette pops every jump into a single. Rochette even at her worst would not do that.

The problem is that there has been no one to challenge Mira in Canada. Personally I hope she gets a wake up call at nationals so that she will at least improve her appearance for future competitions.

 

[Kypma]

I think I saw one comment during the Olympic about Mira's jumping technic. There was something weird about it. Can't remember what ,though.
I think at this point, overall, Joannie is better.

I don't know if if would have been the same comment, but I have heard on a few occasions that Mira's technique on jumps is strange, to say the least. She has an excessive use of knees, so she does complete her jumps, but they do not look attractive.

I still think Joannie is better and will remain as National Champion unless she is forced to withdraw due to injury or something. I would like to see Lesley Hawker go to Worlds this year, I think she could definitely place higher than 24th so maybe letting her go this season would force Mira to correct certain flaws and then we could consider her coming back to the World team and perhaps contributing to earning a 3rd spot for Canadian women for the Olympics.

Kypma

 

[passion]

As for depth of the field nationally, what about Kathryn Kang? She has excellent jump technique, beautiful artistry, good edges/skills, and overall a very polished skater. This will be her first senior year, but I think that one day she could be on the national team. Has anyone heard of her?

 

[slutskayafan21]

I wouldn't be so fast on that. Phaneuf still doesn't have her jumps back. Samson and Hawker are both quite inconsistent ( though they both have the ability to beat Mira with 2 strong programs) .

There are no up and comers. The top junior ladies from last Canadians are very weak and weren't even considered for JGP assignments. The presence of an up and comer would presume depth in the Canadian system which we don't have.

Mira is not showing any signs of improvement and she still dresses sloppily.

She never gets dinged for underrotating jumps at nationals even though that constantly happens at her international events. There have been times that callers at national events will call a jump rotated to keep a skater up ( remember Kimmie's last combo in the SP where she landed the toe forwards but the caller still deemed it a completely rotated jump),

Now I am not saying that the callers were wrong at Canadian nationals ( would have to look at tapes again); just that given Mira's history that there might have been a chance that Mira got credit for rotating jumps that she might not have received credit for in an international competition.

You are probably right on all of that. I guess sentimenally it would be nice to see Hawker get a shot at Worlds as she is getting older, she kind of is this perennial underdog story, and her skating while still with this generic journeywomen quality to it, is still more pleasing to the eye then Mira. Last year she was so close, she had 3 mistake in the LP, a doubled triple loop and a step out of 2 jumps. If she had just done the triple loop, even with the two step outs, or doubled the triple loop but not had the two step outs, she would have nipped Mira for the 2nd spot. As it was I think the thought for the judges of sending an aged journeywomen to Worlds is even less appealing then sending Mira again, so she will really have to earn it to ever make it.

Samson is a skater I like, but she is still trying to build reputation and consistency.

Phaneuf is an intriguing case. The quality of her skating is head and shoulders above any Canadian women not named Rochette. If she could somehow regain her jumps she would easily be our #2. With her growth spurt, I am not sure if she will ever be able to do this, and she was an enormous head case even before the injury and layoff.

Yeah you are right about our junior program, I wish that would change in the near future though, but right now there is nobody coming through the pipeline. The state of Candian womens skating is sinking back into a depressing place again (well did it ever really leave it). Robinson and Rochette are somewhat quality skaters, Robinson a big time overachiever who managed to be a top 10 standing World skater, Rochette a dissapointing underachiever who manages to still be a top 10 standing World skater. However for a skater to dominate in Canada so thoroughly as they do I would like it to be a global star like Manley or Magnussen, and of yet neither are that yet still dominate in Canada to enormous extremes.

 

[chuckm]

As for depth of the field nationally, what about Kathryn Kang? She has excellent jump technique, beautiful artistry, good edges/skills, and overall a very polished skater. This will be her first senior year, but I think that one day she could be on the national team. Has anyone heard of her?

Not sure how 'excellent' Kang's jump technique is.

Here were her jumps at JGP Austria:

SP: 3Z (underrotated)+2T, 2L, 2A
FS: 2Z (underrotated), 3T, 3S+2T, 2A, 2A+2T, 2F+2T+1L, 2L

It seems she has a major problem with underrotating the lutz. She landed only 2 triples in her programs, and they were the easiest ones.

She turns 18 next month, so it isn't as if she is young and has lots of time to work on the major jumps.

 

[hockeyfan228]

A young Robin Cousins from all reports outskated John Curry at British Nationals one year, and the outcome was predictable. (And John Curry is my all-time favorite skater, so it's not a matter of sour grapes.) Meltdown or no, unless Leung's technique miraculously becomes classic in the next three months, or she has a very public break with Mama and goes to Europe or Russia to train, I don't think she has much of a chance.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Last year at Nationals Mira skated 2 clean programs with the most difficulty she could do. She had no jumps downgraded either, fairly unusual for her (although as an earlier poster said, strangely less so at Canadians). Rochette popped 1 major triple into a double in the short, and 3 triples into doubles in the long. Joannie still won very easily.

Joannie and Mira actually both receive inflated scores relative to their competitors for some of their performances at Nationals. I expect this to hold true for Joannie if need be, but I am not sure the same is true for Mira. The CFSA may not be all that thrilled with her after her substandard international season, where GP results were actually slightly worse then the previous season, and then her disaester at Worlds where she came dead last of the final qualifers to the final program. They also may be tired of her stubborness regarding the situation with her mom and her continued meddling and involvement in her career. Mira I think had been their focal point as their rising star once Phaneuf went down with injury/growth spurt, that is up until the end of last season. So whereas previous years there may have been a desire to protect her and look for excuses to prop her up to send her to Worlds/Olympics, the same may not be true this year. Her questionably rotated jumps might not get the benefit of doubt this time, her quality marks may compare less favorably to her competitors in Canada (against her biggest rivals for the #2 in Canada they still dont compare THAT favorably, but enough that with her consistency she has gotten it time again) then in the past. She may have find it tougher sledding this year. We will see.

 

[slutskayafan21]

A young Robin Cousins from all reports outskated John Curry at British Nationals one year, and the outcome was predictable. (And John Curry is my all-time favorite skater, so it's not a matter of sour grapes.) Meltdown or no, unless Leung's technique miraculously becomes classic in the next three months, or she has a very public break with Mama and goes to Europe or Russia to train, I don't think she has much of a chance.

That has happened in Canada too. At the 1987 Nationals Elizabeth Manley, the future 1988 Olympic and World silver medalist, literally spent more of the program on her butt then on her skates, but after her breakthrough 5th place finish at the 86 Worlds (3rd in the long program there) and being a strong hopeful for a medal at the upcoming Worlds, still received very inflated marks and won very easily. At the 1990 Nationals reigning World Champion Kurt Browning had one of his worst performances of his career, completing only 4 of 8 planned triples (after falling on an opening quad attempt), whereas up and coming Stojko completed all 8 of his planned triples cleanly. The judges of course still gave it to Browning, not only courtesy of higher presentation marks (somewhat justified) but gift technical marks as high as 5.8 for that performance.

 

[Jaana]

A young Robin Cousins from all reports outskated John Curry at British Nationals one year, and the outcome was predictable.

Was it in the 1975-1976 Olympic season? The judges made the right decision, Curry peaked where it mattered most: at Europeans, Olympics and Worlds which all he won in the same season....

 

[nadster]

Not sure how 'excellent' Kang's jump technique is.

Here were her jumps at JGP Austria:

SP: 3Z (underrotated)+2T, 2L, 2A
FS: 2Z (underrotated), 3T, 3S+2T, 2A, 2A+2T, 2F+2T+1L, 2L

It seems she has a major problem with underrotating the lutz. She landed only 2 triples in her programs, and they were the easiest ones.

She turns 18 next month, so it isn't as if she is young and has lots of time to work on the major jumps.

chuckm to add to your points Kang also has a very worrying habit of popping jumps to singles. At the last junior nationals, Kang was leading going into the free skate. She then fell from 1st to 1th in a very weak field simply because she popped everything ( many of them to singles).

Personally I would think that Rika Inoda ( our novice champion) has more long term potential. She is only 14 and her summer scores are already competitive with the other Canadian JGP ladies ( our next youngest JGP lady is 17 years old) We will see how well she does at her JGP this week. Rika is competing junior at nationals though and she still is a far way off begin competitive at seniors right now but she is by far the best bet for the future. When I saw the top juniors and novices skate at the last nationals, I thought that Rika looked better than any of the juniors.

 

[sillylionlove]

Well I am going to be daring and say that I am not really a fan of either of them!!