I like Elena, but she still looks like a little girl. Is this really what skating has come to? The PCS elements are either nebulous or have nothing to do with artistry (e.g., skating skills, transitions) or even the skater (choreography), allowing child-like skaters who can jump to get extremely high overall scores while a more artistic skater who makes technical errors that are not visible to the naked eye in many cases is penalized on both scores. I think Mirai is a case in point. She fell on a jump which cost her 5-6 points, maybe. The rest of her program looked clean to the viewer without instant replay. She had excellent spins and footwork and difficult elements. Even with the mistakes that showed up in slo-mo, was it really 30 points worse than Elena's skate?
Mirai Nagasu's future prospects
- Thread starter flying camel
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I like Elena, but she still looks like a little girl. Is this really what skating has come to? The PCS elements are either nebulous or have nothing to do with artistry (e.g., skating skills, transitions) or even the skater (choreography), allowing child-like skaters who can jump to get extremely high overall scores while a more artistic skater who makes technical errors that are not visible to the naked eye in many cases is penalized on both scores. I think Mirai is a case in point. She fell on a jump which cost her 5-6 points, maybe. The rest of her program looked clean to the viewer without instant replay. She had excellent spins and footwork and difficult elements. Even with the mistakes that showed up in slo-mo, was it really 30 points worse than Elena's skate?
That leg is at half the height it is supposed to be.
I was more thinking along the lines of:-http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Anna+Pogorilaya+World+Junior+Figure+Skating+7ybENx1ffaCl.jpg
-http://www.artonice.it/files/images/Pogorilaya_0.jpg
-http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/453726861-anna-pogorilaya-of-russia-compete-in-the-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QczdoRMvdG9BHOKJvipVgdSjmBLV%2B8BYFpt5kUZ2UPN3p%2FJ6aEz9bPpZQufo%2FC1zRg%3D%3D
Regarding her spins - you're the one who said she has "great" skating skills and presentations, when that's far from the truth. As I said before, she has some of the worst spins and extensions amongst the current senior ladies.
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
Because spins are the only element that allows you to rate the skater
Firstly, paste your links again because I am redirected to nowhere. I can open only the third photo and it didn't really tell me a lot. Yes, Anna's spins aren't the best possible, but aren't also the worst possible, for example here.
Secondly - no, I'm not the only one. Thirdly - extension? She is more or less as flexible as Polina Edmunds.
She has brilliant skating skills, just look at this fragment. She has a great knee balance, very sure edges, good posture, she controls ger arm movements, is very, very speed. Pay attention on how long skates she on one blade and how sure, speed and precise she is.
Firstly, paste your links again because I am redirected to nowhere. I can open only the third photo and it didn't really tell me a lot. Yes, Anna's spins aren't the best possible, but aren't also the worst possible, for example here.
Secondly - no, I'm not the only one. Thirdly - extension? She is more or less as flexible as Polina Edmunds.
She has brilliant skating skills, just look at this fragment. She has a great knee balance, very sure edges, good posture, she controls ger arm movements, is very, very speed. Pay attention on how long skates she on one blade and how sure, speed and precise she is.
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2014
I do not see any way in how pointing out to everything wrong with Radionova and Pogorilaya gonna help Mirai. She has her own things to work on regardless of what Russian ladies are doing. After all, it's not tennis where you can win by knowing your enemies weaknesses. The only person she is competing with is herself.
Maybe people would focus on what is good about Mirai without trying to put dirt on young nice ladies representing Russia. And stop calling them babies by the way - it's not appropriate.
Maybe people would focus on what is good about Mirai without trying to put dirt on young nice ladies representing Russia. And stop calling them babies by the way - it's not appropriate.
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
Coming back to Mirai, she has a gorgeous layback position in SP, doesn't she? It is simply amazing 
Anna has decent spins, I think they get characterized as bad because the top skaters in Russia right now have some insane spins.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
I agree that Elena still looks very young but the fact is she's only 15 years old. She is young, but that shouldn't be held against her.
I actually agree with Elena's PCS. She maintains good speed and covers the ice well (SS). Her program appears to be a little busy at times but it's b/c it is packed full of transitions throughout; whether she's going into a jump/spin or coming out of one, there's some kind of transition (TR). You don't see Elena just doing crossovers to set up her elements. She is completely engaged in the performance from start to finish. She never looks like she's just going through the motions. She connects, projects and sells her program very well (PE). For a 15 year old, she interprets the music wonderfully. I never get the sense Elena is skating through her music; she moves with it and that's something that many skaters older than her aren't capable of doing (IN). Her choreography (CH) isn't the absolute best but it is good enough. There are musical moments in the program and the movements are phrased well. Additionally, IMO anyway, her natural ability to perform elevates whatever choreography she's doing.
Though people like to point to the fact that Elena looks like a little girl, the reality is she's meeting all of the criteria in the PCS category. With all of these younger skaters coming into the mix, I'm beginning to realize that maturity isn't part of PCS. I definitely think maturity should factor into the scores but when a person's only major fault is that they look like a little girl, I don't think that argument has much merit...especially when the mature skaters in the field aren't bringing anything to the table. Just because someone is younger/smaller/doesn't have a mature appearance doesn't mean they deserve less credit for what they do on the ice.
IMO, Elena was close to 30 point better than Ashley and Mirai. She out-jumped and out-performed both of them. Ashley's program isn't soup yet and with her jumps MIA and her spins sub par, I don't think she deserved a great score. I do think she received a few bogus < calls but even without them, she did not skate well at all. Mirai put forth a great effort in terms of attacking her program BUT she still isn't getting all of her jumps around. In addition to that, she's not selling the program from start to finish. That energy and sparkle she brought to the last 30 seconds of her program should have been there from the beginning. Mirai's footwork was a only a level 2; her layback spin was great but the other two spins, though they had nice positions, were a bit slow.
I do think both Ashley and Mirai deserved higher PCS in certain areas but the fact of the matter remains neither of them deserves scores that would put them anywhere near what Elena or Satoko did based on their performances at JO. Until they can rotate and land their jumps, max their elements and perform their programs, they don't deserve to score as well as the stronger, albeit younger, skaters in the field.
This is a new quad and I'm glad the judges aren't holding seniority against these younger skaters. I am fully supportive of judges awarding skaters for what they do on the ice rather than who they are or how old they are...
Read, learn, preach.^at everything Kwanatic said.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
Because spins are the only element that allows you to rate the skater
Firstly, paste your links again because I am redirected to nowhere. I can open only the third photo and it didn't really tell me a lot. Yes, Anna's spins aren't the best possible, but aren't also the worst possible, for example here.
Secondly - no, I'm not the only one. Thirdly - extension? She is more or less as flexible as Polina Edmunds.
She has brilliant skating skills, just look at this fragment. She has a great knee balance, very sure edges, good posture, she controls ger arm movements, is very, very speed. Pay attention on how long skates she on one blade and how sure, speed and precise she is.
Pogorilaya is competing in a stacked Russian field where the other ladies are strong across all aspects of their skating (ex: speed, jumps, spins, flexibility, extension, PCS). Say what you will about Radianova and Lipniskaia's jumps, but they're not getting held back in the points department there. So yes, Pogorilaya's spins are a GLARING sub-par element; she can't afford to give leeway on any element if she wants one of the 3 Russian spots. Polina is competing against a much weaker field so she has more breathing room.
IDK how anyone can say Pogorilaya's spins are "decent".
https://31.media.tumblr.com/0782dd3c7c07e6e1a949b31ee6d77c48/tumblr_mys4tfatrR1r8b267o1_500.jpg
https://38.media.tumblr.com/256521d98c5ef9a061acbcb599ba2986/tumblr_n342kjvMA91qzf8b9o1_500.png
Thank you so much Sam!
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- Feb 17, 2010
Almost 9 points of the difference was PCS. I don't find that too surprising. Elena is an exciting up-and-comer. She is a bit sloppy but it's clear she's working hard on developing the transitions and expression on the ice. Mirai does not generate any excitement outside her fans. There's a heaviness to her skating and she telegraphs a lot of her jumps. The rest of the difference is from TES and all the < and fall are very costly both with base value and GOE.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
Yes, thank you Sam! I'm not allowed to self-promote here so
for that shout out!Psst...I update it weekly.
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- Feb 26, 2014
Yes, thank you Sam! I'm not allowed to self-promote here so
Psst...I update it weekly.
I follow your blog. :thumbsup:
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- May 19, 2011
I would say they're decent based on the fact that I have seen much worse. However, like you said, in Russia she's up against a person with phenomenal spins (Julia), amazing spins (Adelina), and very good spins (Elena). On that scale "decent" is almost equal to crappy by comparison...
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
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