Most successful coach?

[Mathman]

I think it was Betty Callaway...

OT -- Good to see you back posting, Ant. I was just about to start a thread, "Where's Antman?"

 

[Mathman]

...wikipedia failed as usual...

But the cool thing about Wikipedia is, when you find out the information that is missing, you can write an article about it for the next person!

 

[antmanb]

OT -- Good to see you back posting, Ant. I was just about to start a thread, "Where's Antman?"

Thanks MM! Work siutation has had me in th eoffice round the clock and weekends with no time to catch up with my cyber life...how rude work can be sometimes!!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Ant, thanks, I'm aware of Betty being TD's coach
I meant the coach/coaches who trained all those English teams _before_ the 70th. Well, Lawrence Demmy, Courtney Jones, Towler/ Ford... Who was their coaches? wikipedia failed as usual...

Can't be of any help on who trained those...those i think Betty might have had a hand in some of those - i think she did in the case of Towler/Ford.

Ant

 

[Tonichelle]

you're right Tonichelle Peggy Fleming, John Curry, Dorothy Hamill, Robin Cousins, Jill Trenary, and also Scott, Paul Wylie and Nicole Bobek for some parts of their carrears
Meanwhile wasn't Karen Cadavy his student too?

I didn't mention Scott because while Carlo was great for him... his deciding Scott was not the *next big thing* was even better for him because he left Carlo went to Don Laws, and kicked booty for the next 4-5 years Forgot about Paul working with him!

 

[flying camel]

I often wonder if some of these wonderful coaches stole other peoples skaters. Maybe a coach spotted a skater an approached them. I can't help but be curious about that. I noticed some coaches seem very protective of their skaters.

 

[antmanb]

I often wonder if some of these wonderful coaches stole other peoples skaters. Maybe a coach spotted a skater an approached them. I can't help but be curious about that. I noticed some coaches seem very protective of their skaters.

I'm not sure that it is ever as controversial as coaches "stealing" students. As a general rule figure skating coaches frown upon student poaching at all other levels so i don't think that would be any different at the elite level.

Coaches such as Mishin often groom skaters from the very earliest of ages so i'm not sure that student poaching is relevant there.

Also, like others have noted at the elite level there are many coaches who specialise in different areas. TT is more of an artistic/presentation specialist and she was lucky to have Kulik and Yagudin approach her once they had mastered the most difficult technical elements under Mishin. There is no questioning that both had and kept those technical skills as taught to them by Mishin, but it is also undisputable that their artistic and presentation skills a are very much TT and not Mishin.

Kwan i think is also someone who is obviously frank carol taught, but her jumping improved no end under Arutunian.

At the end of the day the skater is the one who goes out and performs under that pressure. They are the athlete and also the "customer" who is llowed to by the consulting services of anyone they wish in order to make them a better skater.

Ant

 

[Tonichelle]

I think there are some coaches that *hint* that if the skater(s) are not happy with their current situation that they're interested if the skater(s) want to switch... but it's normally not directly to teh skater(s) it's normally to the people close to them (family, friends, etc)

but then you have situations like Scott Hamilton's... Don Laws actually called Carlo to make sure it was okay

 

[Ptichka]

TT is more of an artistic/presentation specialist and she was lucky to have Kulik and Yagudin approach her once they had mastered the most difficult technical elements under Mishin. There is no questioning that both had and kept those technical skills as taught to them by Mishin, but it is also undisputable that their artistic and presentation skills a are very much TT and not Mishin.

One tiny correction - Kulik trained under Kudryavtsev, not Mishin; I'd say that Kudryavtsev is even more of a technical coach then Mishin.

I often wonder if some of these wonderful coaches stole other peoples skaters. Maybe a coach spotted a skater an approached them. I can't help but be curious about that. I noticed some coaches seem very protective of their skaters.

In addition to what Ant already said - there is also a financial side involved. In the States, coaches are generally well compensated; therefore, "loosing" a skater may not be quite such a big deal. In Russia, OTOH, coaches often work almost for nothing while they are preparing the skater; the only way they can make money is if their skaters hit it big. Then, they understandably feel devastated when their skaters leave for other coaches - after spending much time and effort, they are left literally with nothing. In Russia, this is the fate of several coaches, especially the Kudryatsevs and the Velikovs. No wonder the latter hate the Moskvins as much as they do!

 

[antmanb]

One tiny correction - Kulik trained under Kudryavtsev, not Mishin; I'd say that Kudryavtsev is even more of a technical coach then Mishin.

*Slaps head* i knew that, yet my fingers insisted on typing mishin!!!

Ant

 

[georgia]

Best coaches ever?
Hm.. Good question. Among the many, two stand out as the best in my opinion.
Tatiana, and you all know her record, and Carlo Fassi.
Carlo had 4 gold medalists in single skating:
Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill, Robin Cousins and John Carry.
Among others, he coached for many many years, Scott Hamilton and Paul Wylie.
He coached Jill Trenary, and Caryn Kadavy until the end of their armature careers.
He also produced, the most Single World Junior Champions.
He die at Worlds, coaching Nicole Bobek.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

One tiny correction - Kulik trained under Kudryavtsev, not Mishin; I'd say that Kudryavtsev is even more of a technical coach then Mishin.

In addition to what Ant already said - there is also a financial side involved. In the States, coaches are generally well compensated; therefore, "loosing" a skater may not be quite such a big deal. In Russia, OTOH, coaches often work almost for nothing while they are preparing the skater; the only way they can make money is if their skaters hit it big. Then, they understandably feel devastated when their skaters leave for other coaches - after spending much time and effort, they are left literally with nothing. In Russia, this is the fate of several coaches, especially the Kudryatsevs and the Velikovs. No wonder the latter hate the Moskvins as much as they do!

Not in the days of the Soviets. Skaters and coaches were priviledge citizens. Most of the gold medals should be credited to the Soviet System which lasted until Torino. Am I correct?

Joe

 

[pohatta]

In today's Aamulehti (Finnish newspaper) there's an article about Kiira Korpi training with Alexei Mishin. It says that Mishin charges 75 € for a 25 minute session. Mishin states that Korpi is the most likely European lady to land a triple axel in competition.

http://www.aamulehti.fi/mediagalleria/aamulehti/urheilu/480/6.shtml

 

[Ptichka]

Not in the days of the Soviets. Skaters and coaches were priviledge citizens. Most of the gold medals should be credited to the Soviet System which lasted until Torino. Am I correct?

Sort of. Most of what made elite athletes privileged is the ability to travel abroad; this gave them access to goods that could be resold back home at a handsome profit. The thing is, if you coach someone who is then "stolen" by another coach - that other coach is the one who gets to travel to competitions. And, of course, there are cases like Mishin - he was not allowed to travel abroad for years (and then was allowed to travel but only to the Soviet block countries) after a denunciation.

Also, I recall how at some point during Soviet times, when the West was complaining that Soviet athletes who call themselves "amateurs" are really professionals, someone did the math. Even when all the perks were added up, the compensation of those athletes did not come anywhere close the that of professional athletes in the West. Don't forget that the money athletes won in competitions went to their federations; athletes only got a small part. From Oleg Protopopov's 'recollections: " Here is another example. In 1977, we were invited to the Madison Square Garden show, and were paid ten thousand dollars for it. [...] Americans gave us cash; we brought it to Moscow and gave it to the official GosConcert. In return, we got 53 dollars and 25 cents. In accordance to the established artistic salary in USSR. I was especially touched by how official they made it all sound"

 

[blue dog]

To me, a great coach has not only coached champions, but have coached people who contribute to the sport as coaches themselves. In that regard, I would have to nominate the very controversial Stanislav Zhuk, who had supposedly molested some of his students.

Other coaches whose students contributed to skating are the late Maribel Vinson Owen, Tatiana Tarasova, Igor Moskvin, Tamara Moskvina, Frank Carroll, Viktor Kudryavtsev (who has coached since the 60's!) and Jutta Mueller.

 

[Coach]

Don't forget Doug Leigh in Canada - Elvis Stojko and Brian Orser.... he has also taught Jeff Buttle and many other World level skaters have dropped into his school over the years... Steven Cousins, Ota, Takahashi, many Japanese skaters, Scandinavian, Belgium, etc.....