Disagree. As much as I hate Chan's big mouth, I started to like his programs especially Rachmaninoff Elégie. To my eyes, he doesn't have the nature artistry, but I can see his effort worked.
Nam Nguyen - the future of Canadian figure skating
- Thread starter Taan
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Disagree. As much as I hate Chan's big mouth, I started to like his programs especially Rachmaninoff Elégie. To my eyes, he doesn't have the nature artistry, but I can see his effort worked.
I am so torn by his skating and his personality! Sometimes I wonder if he were born a mute, it would have been perfect.
I actually think that's a good thing. Patrick obviously believes in accomplishments in many directions, as Michelle Kwan does, and maybe he's just ready to throw himself into another aspect of life.
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- Jan 25, 2013
You are literally the only person on this board who thinks that Hanyu deserves the 2012 GPF title. Well, other than sky_fly probably. His skating was still unrefined and junior-ish, as was his stamina (his asthma still being a problem for him), and he made a major error in both programs. If Hanyu wins Worlds, he will have 1 World title and 1 World bronze, to Chan's 3 World titles -- even if Chan didn't win 2012 Worlds & 2013 Worlds, Chan would still have 1 Gold and 2 silvers. Also, if Chan chose to compete at this upcoming Worlds, he would get at least silver (certainly bronze given the field), so that would be a quadrennial with 4 World medals for Chan (3 Gold and 1 silver... or 1 Gold and 3 silvers to the haters) compared to Hanyu's quadrennial with 2 World medals (1 likely Gold and 1 bronze).
If Chan lost Skate Canada to Fernandez, Chan would have 5 GP golds to Hanyu's 2 GP golds (which arguably should be 1 GP gold, considering Hanyu shouldn't have won Rostelecom 2011 with 2 falls in his FS). Even 2012 NHK (which he did deserve to win, though not by 10 points), Hanyu had a FS with 2 falls, and a stepout on the 4S and was gifted the FS over Takahashi.
And you think Hanyu deserved to win 2011-2012 season cup of China?!
Are you kidding? In his FS, Hanyu had two BAD falls (which both took time to recover from), a UR'ed 3T on his 3A-3T, a doubled salchow, and only one combination. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSzT3yUBb4M Even if Hanyu was gifted Cup of China, where he was 4th, and Chan lost to Javier, Chan would still have 5 GP Golds to Hanyu's 3 GP golds this past quad.So in the hypothetical scenario you're suggesting where Hanyu gets all the wins you think he deserves and Chan loses all the wins you think he doesn't deserve, and bearing in mind Chan would likely win silver (if not gold) at 2014 Worlds.... Chan would still have 2 more World medals than Hanyu this past quad, 2 more GPF medals than Hanyu this past quad, and 2 more GP gold medals than Hanyu this past quad. Chan hasn't finished off the podium once in major events this past quad, whereas Hanyu has finished off the podium in all 3 seasons prior to this one. And like I said, their head to head record is 6 for Chan, 3 for Hanyu.
That is NOT "quite even".
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- Sep 14, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtoUoiorSQ8
You tell me. Were you amused?
I'm sure there are others.
And, no, his skating was not junior-ish. That's blatant ageism on your part. Hanyu's LP in 2011-2012 was FAR, FAR better than his LP's in 2013 and 2014.
NOT a fair comparison. Hanyu is 19, Chan 23 and Chan has been competing far longer than Hanyu.
A fairer question: How many titles did Chan have at age 19?
From his bio, Chan had won 4 titles by age 19:
2009 4CC
2008 TEB
2008 SCI
2005 JGP Montreal
At age 19, Hanyu has won 11 titles:
2014 Olympics
2013-2014 GPF
2013 Finlandia Trophy
2012 Finlandia Trophy
2012 NHK Trophy
2011 CoR
2011 Nebelhorn Trophy
2010 JW
2009/2010 JGPF
2009 JGP Croatia
2009 JGP Poland
A fairer question: How many titles did Chan have at age 19?
From his bio, Chan had won 4 titles by age 19:
2009 4CC
2008 TEB
2008 SCI
2005 JGP Montreal
At age 19, Hanyu has won 11 titles:
2014 Olympics
2013-2014 GPF
2013 Finlandia Trophy
2012 Finlandia Trophy
2012 NHK Trophy
2011 CoR
2011 Nebelhorn Trophy
2010 JW
2009/2010 JGPF
2009 JGP Croatia
2009 JGP Poland
For the classical music reference, I have to disagree with you. I have been in the classical community for years, and I have to say, most of PChan's choices of classical music background to perform are not suited for dancing. Example, his current SP. Rachmaninoff never wrote that piece so people could dance along with it. I like PChan as he is an excellent skaters, but as a classical musician, I don't find the music and his moves in the program match each other.I am young and I love classical music, but I find Daisuke's program much better sync with music than PChan.
As a lifelong lover of classical music, I find that Daisuke has more of a feel for it than Patrick, admirable though Patrick's skating is. PTFan's listed skaters, including Curry, Cousins, Petrenko, Lambiel, Wylie, and others also appeal more to me in this regard. But I understand that different people react differently to what skaters do, and so I'm just giving my reaction, not arguing with anyone else who reacts otherwise. This is the beauty of skating: everyone finds something in it that may not be apparent to anyone else.
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Oh, don't be so harsh on PChan. He is still young, just a 23 year old young man, so I can get his attitude. And he's nice, just not careful with his mouth sometimes. He has been under pressure so much. I know Canadian don't love him less even though he lost the gold. He will come back. I believe in him.I am so torn by his skating and his personality! Sometimes I wonder if he were born a mute, it would have been perfect.
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- Jan 25, 2013
It's no 4T and 4T+3T. Nor is it something that Takahashi typically repeats (certainly not in actual international competition). I was also referring to Takahashi in the present tense, just like I'm pretty sure you were referring to Chan in the present tense as to his ability to interprets Blues for Klook. And I'm sure Chan would be able to interpret it well, just not in the same way as Takahashi.
Ah well, 3 successful World titles... that's a lot for Nam, or any man these days to try to live up to. Congratulations to Patrick for having such a dominant quadrennial.
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- Jan 25, 2013
That is not a fairer question. Age is the silliest argument ever, as clearly some skaters perform better younger than older and some older than younger. Clearly Yuzuru is a prodigy whereas Chan took a few years to peak - not to mention, he was hampered by injuries and could have actually been more accomplished by 19.
The argument in question is Yuzuru/Chan being the top skater of the past QUADRENNIAL. Not just the past 2013-2014 SEASON. Chan has clearly been the top skater taking into account the past FOUR seasons.
Haters will always whine that Chan only earned 1 World title, blah blah blah. It's as delusional as them saying he lacks artistry. They will wail until the cows come home, but Chan's got 3 World titles and that's the fact. But even with 1 World title and 3 silvers, Chan would have far better results than any other man this quadrennial (if he medalled at 2014 Worlds, which he would, he'd be the only man to medal at all 4 Worlds of this quadrennial, not to mention his 6th world medal in a row). There is simply no question.
Medalled at every Worlds this past quad. (only skater to do so)
+ Medalled at every GPF this past quad. (only skater to do so, and the only skater to qualify in all four GPFs)
+ Medalled at every GP event this past quad. (only skater to do so)
+ Most number of quads landed this past quad.
+ Never off the podium this past quad.
+ Highest score of this past quad (and highest total ever).
= Top skater of the past quad, bar none.
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- Sep 14, 2008
Takahashi did 2 Quads and 2 Triple Axels in that performance, one in three-jump combination, plus all of the other Triples. That's more content than Chan has ever attempted and it's not as if Chan achieves his content at the most important competitions anyway. I don't see any point being made.
That's...not the adjective to be using here.
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Actually, his second 4T was under-rotated, as was the 3-jump combo you mentioned. http://www.jsfresults.com/National/2012-2013/fs_e/national/data0105.pdf Sorry, Chan's still successfully executed more content.
Uh, Chan hasn't achieved his content at the most important competitions? He's landed all 9 quads in the past 3 World Championships.
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- Sep 14, 2008
Not more than 1/4.
Uh, Chan hasn't achieved his content at the most important competitions? He's landed all 9 quads in the past 3 World Championships.
Why are you only counting quads? There's the rest of the program too. One of those Quads (2012 SP) had a step-out, btw.
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- Jan 25, 2013
At 7:22 you can see that his blade is on the ice, more than 1/4 way around. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtoUoiorSQ8 Not to mention, it was called as UR in his own Nationals where he is revered -- it was under-rotated.
Also, the 2012 SP, Chan didn't get the long running edge of the landing, but it was for all intents and purposes landed. It deserved -GOE, but it would still be called as a landed quad as his free leg was out. And if that's the nitpicking you're gonna do, 8 out of 9 quads ain't bad either, and something no man has done in the past quadrennial.
As far as rest of the content, there haven't loads of times Takahashi/Fernandez/Hanyu/etc. delivered their content internationally. If we're talking the rest of the program, Hanyu has yet to skate a clean SP+FS, so clearly if you don't consider Chan the top skater because he hasn't always delivered his content, you can't say Hanyu has been the top skater of this past quad either. Of Hanyu's four significant international wins, none of them have been clean competitions: 2014 Olympics - 2 falls, 2013 GPF - 1 fall, 2012, NHK 2012 - 2 falls, Rostelecom 2011 - 2 falls. And his World medal had 1 fall too.
So for everyone acting like Chan's been the only one to have good results in spite of errors, Hanyu is in the same boat (even though haters of Chan will never admit it).. Which is a testament to how great Hanyu/Chan are as skaters that they can afford mistakes and still place high or win.
Also, the 2012 SP, Chan didn't get the long running edge of the landing, but it was for all intents and purposes landed. It deserved -GOE, but it would still be called as a landed quad as his free leg was out. And if that's the nitpicking you're gonna do, 8 out of 9 quads ain't bad either, and something no man has done in the past quadrennial.
As far as rest of the content, there haven't loads of times Takahashi/Fernandez/Hanyu/etc. delivered their content internationally. If we're talking the rest of the program, Hanyu has yet to skate a clean SP+FS, so clearly if you don't consider Chan the top skater because he hasn't always delivered his content, you can't say Hanyu has been the top skater of this past quad either. Of Hanyu's four significant international wins, none of them have been clean competitions: 2014 Olympics - 2 falls, 2013 GPF - 1 fall, 2012, NHK 2012 - 2 falls, Rostelecom 2011 - 2 falls. And his World medal had 1 fall too.
So for everyone acting like Chan's been the only one to have good results in spite of errors, Hanyu is in the same boat (even though haters of Chan will never admit it).. Which is a testament to how great Hanyu/Chan are as skaters that they can afford mistakes and still place high or win.
Regarding his skating, I don't think he reached his full potential yet.
1) He is a slow learner, I could see he is more than capable to add the quad sal in his caliber.
2) He is never a consistent competitor, and he could learn a lot from Carolina Kostner. I would love to see his transformation and become technically stable and artistically impressive.
Is there a requirement of 3A for men? I suppose one can more than make up for the lack of 3A with 4T's. Of course if someone does same 4T's and 3A then there is a disadvantage but we have seen many champions, both male and female, who failed to perform (including no attempt) a certain jump.
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- Jan 25, 2013
1) He has practiced and landed 4S, but I wished he'd move it into competition.
2) He's not consistent, but neither are the other guys. As much as his advantage has been artistically, he's benefited from a high base value, good GOE on elements he does execute, and also the other guys not being perfectly clean themselves. Hanyu's now a major player because he can land axels and 4T easily, and is starting to close the gap artistically. Kostner was never a consistent competitor herself, and the Olympics were truly a magical moment for her to peak at that time. Unfortunately Chan peaked at TEB, a few months too early.
I'd like to see him stick around because he's very talented, not old by any means, and he's got more growth and improvement. But it's great to see that he's pursuing studies and things outside of skating. I think he needs a bit of time off, and then renew his motivation. It's very telling that he's not competing at Worlds, since obviously there's no motivation to win when he has the past 3 years, and when the Olympics drained him mentally, and when Hanyu will likely benefit from home-cooked PCS like at the GPF which will make it harder for Chan to win.
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