Nathan Chen

[luckyu2]

Well Raf’s new interview tells me that at least a part of Nathan’s pressure comes from his coach. I hope they learned from last Olympics and prepare better this time around both physically and psychologically.

 

[shine]

Not that I think judges really look at and apply those 6 bullets for positive GOE thoroughly, but if we base our argument on those bullets, than Nathan didn't really hit that many of them. +3 seems fine depending on what measure a judge applies, I might even go lower if I wanted to be strict.
One thing this FS is lacking for me, is the placement of the jumps on the music, because that's one positive bullet right there, that a skater will get, even when the jump itself didn't have the best quality. As much as I hated Rocketman, the jump placement was better thought out for sure and made for a more effective program in terms of having those jump landings that felt more satisfying.


Absolutely, I was gonna say the same thing, it makes me really worry for next season (or whenever and if Olys take place).
I don't care about him landing the jumps per se, I mean I do, because I want him to be happy with his performance and because messy jumps don't look nice, but what's more important is that he doesn't tense up so much during his programs, and sadly this is what happens when the jumps don't go well. I remember when I fell in love with his skating, it was the first half of the 2017/18 season and though his performances were rather sloppy jump-wise, his movement was so free and almost wild. But then Nationals happened and suddenly his body language was so much stiffer and cautious when he delivered his programs.
I guess this is true for every skater to some extent (which is why videos of practice sessions are so valuable), but since I follow Nathan so closely, it's particularly noticeable for me in his case.

For this season, his ISP skates + his SP at Skate America are my favourites so far.

Gone are the days of Le Corsaire, where he could perform freely and dance to every beat of the music while landing the most difficult jump content... I guess there's something to be said about being young and fearless, and not expecting any results.

 

[sheetz]

I will say that the gala rocket man was about as relaxed as I've ever seen him. His posture looked better to me and the skating so smooth and natural. I hope he can do some Japan shows this summer because he obviously loves them so much.

 

[Adjesusluvsu]

Sometimes I need to check myself whether I am too biased on my awe of Nathan, but for some reason, I just do not find the feedback and commentary of Dave Lease and Jonathan Beyer to be all that objective of Nathan. Perhaps this was already discussed in this forum or in others, but has anyone found their criticism of Nathan to be objective? Alternatively, are there other skating recap channels on Youtube you find to be more objective?

I think they are just harsh on anyone who isn't their favorite. (For example, they don't really favor Yuzu or Nathan in comparison to their love for Jason.)

 

[ice coverage]

In a normal year at Nats he'd be hanging out with his pals but this year everyone is mostly isolated from each other, so I can see how that could be depressing. ....

The good news is that hanging out was not completely impossible.

If my eyes do not deceive me, a fun glimpse of Nathan and Jean-Luc (with Kaitlyn) hanging out within the 2021 Nats bubble starts at approx. 0:32 in the video below from Chock/Bates.
(They all are outdoors, and everyone is wearing masks and observing social-distancing.)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKIU0QSHKAm/ (posted Jan 16)​

Congratulations to Nathan!

 

[figskatefan]

I think they are just harsh on anyone who isn't their favorite. (For example, they don't really favor Yuzu or Nathan in comparison to their love for Jason.)

I agree that the negative comments come from upset fans. The skaters themselves LOVE Nathan. The past champions and other professionals LOVE Nathan, gushing when they talk about him. In a YouTube video of international broadcasters including former champs commentating on his 2019 Worlds free skate, they raved about him (Yagudin was crying, Tarasova was so animated & also crying, Philippe Candoloro was “oo la la’ing all over the place.). Yes, the judges do sometimes over score Nathan on his GOEs & PCS’s, but never did it change any outcomes since Nathan usually wins by such a big margin. In his last 2 victories over Yuzuru, Yuzuru lost because he made costly mistakes, not because Nathan was over scored.

 

[Cashmire]

Hi everyone! I was also lurking on the forum for a while now and I finally decided to join on the discussion. I also became completely fed up with many comments about Nathan that I see on youtube and twitter and decided that reading those is really not worth it.
I especially hate the tone of those comments when fans of *some* skaters act like their opinion is a fact - for example that Nathan's skating doesn't make people think something. Well, it makes me feel something. I so very agree with what you've been saying today - I believe we (Nathan fans) look for something a bit different than 'typical' (for lack of better word) FS fan. When Nathan skates, I believe him, even when he's visibly focused on nailing his tech. I love to watch him glide in his simple shirts to the simple music. Honestly, sometimes I can't even explain why I like his skating so much. I think I realized it when I was watching 2019 worlds - both him and Yuzuru were absolutely exeptional (and I loved Yuzuru's programs that year) and I was telling everyone that "whoever wins skating wins, those two are just that good" but really, 'secretly' I was cheering for Nathan the most. "Land of all" just gave me chills.

And, well. I still have a lot to learn about scoring, rulebooks, the proper execution of elements, but even I can see what some 'fans' try too do and it's very, very low.

 

[1111bm]

Aww, love me some Jean-Luc + Nathan interaction.

I'm still cracking up whenever I see Nathan in his 'new' FS costume, never thought of him as the type to wear this post-apocalyptic style, normally he's wearing those straight cut, minimalist or everyday type of clothes/costumes, so my brain is fighting this new image.

I think they are just harsh on anyone who isn't their favorite.

It's not just being harsh, what some of them are doing is straight out defamation, the way they're twisting every single good-natured statement of his, it is completey outrageous and absurd.
And the reason why all those 'analyses' of Nathan's shortcomings and mistakes are so vile and dishonest, is because of the way that they're singling him out and are overstating the seriousness of every missed call or favourable scoring to a level that is disproportionate to the actual 'offence'.
Meanwhile they completely ignore every time other top skaters or better yet, their fave(s), benefitted likewise from such negligence/sloppiness or bias by the panel (and there's plenty). Never mind the fact, that they're this hypercritical only when Nathan is concerned.
They also see and obsess over perceived bias where there very likely is none (they allege intention and bias on the TP's part because Nathan got a level 4 on his step sequence and they're so convinced of his mediocre skills, meanwhile they totally ignore the fact that he lost several levels on two spins ).

 

[lurkz2]

I'm still cracking up whenever I see Nathan in his 'new' FS costume, never thought of him as the type to wear this post-apocalyptic style, normally he's wearing those straight cut, minimalist or everyday type of clothes/costumes, so my brain is fighting this new image.

Hahaha is it wrong that I feel better knowing it's a hand me down? Though I actually think this current FS costume would have suited "Land of All" very well.

 

[1111bm]

Hahaha is it wrong that I feel better knowing it's a hand me down? Though I actually think this current FS costume would have suited "Land of All" very well.

Absolutely it would have.
He's saving so much money on those costumes compared to other skaters! Smart boy.
Does this mean his sisters need to watch out for their wardrobes from now on?

 

[alexaa]

Coach Chen is already back at work , from teamRaf IG story

https://instagram.com/team__raf?igshid=11hsu97jkgwy9

or on Twitter

https://twitter.com/NathanChenJP/status/1351674828168675328?s=20

 

[1111bm]

I agree, MFD has a knack at weaving those jumps into the music. However watching nationals I realized for the first time that his 4T3T and 3A could be landed on the music, which was...somewhat satisfying? Especially given that I almost stopped breathing out of nervousness at that point.

Oh you're right, the way that they slightly reorganised the program and shifted a few jumps made the beats of the climaxing music together with the jumps much more effective than it was before. Actually, upon rewatch, even the first 4T is times to the music, he takes off on the first one of the starting violin strokes, and the 3F is landed on the second stroke.

Also LOL @ 'almost stopped breathing', at that point I was just numb so I didn't take much in anymore (damn that 3A as his last jumping pass! ). I just realised that I haven't rewatched the whole program with sound on since the competition happened, because all the negativity had put me off it, I just watched fragments here and there.

It's more the first half of the program that doesn't have more obvious musical cues being hit, although the 3Lz and 4S fit the music very nicely actually, especially the 4S is placed at a great moment!

New Raf interview!

Ok I don't get him at all, again another interview with Raf talking... nonsense?

Why do the more difficult quads in the 2nd half, that is at most 0.15-0.2 extra points. This can be more than offset by doing a difficult quad without a bonus in the first half of the program, but with good quality i.e. positive GOE! (an average of +1 GOE is already worth approx. 1 point!)
And the likelihood of a well executed quad is higher in the beginning of the program I would think. So unless this is about flexing in front of the judges (and would that even work, when he's too tired to do those harder quads nicely in the 2nd half...) I don't get this strategy at all, it's simply not worth it. Never mind that we have yet to see Nathan skate a 4-5 quad program with easier quads in the 2nd half absolutely cleanly (and no, both his GPF 19 and Worlds 19 FPs don't count as such in my book).

 

[sheetz]

I take Raf's suggestions as simply examples of ways to increase BV and not necessarily an indication of what he actually plans for Nathan. I've cranked the numbers before and the only really worthwhile upgrade is adding a 4Lo.

 

[LutzDance]

Oh you're right, the way that they slightly reorganised the program and shifted a few jumps made the beats of the climaxing music together with the jumps much more effective than it was before. Actually, upon rewatch, even the first 4T is times to the music, he takes off on the first one of the starting violin strokes, and the 3F is landed on the second stroke.

It's more the first half of the program that doesn't have more obvious musical cues being hit, although the 3Lz and 4S fit the music very nicely actually, especially the 4S is placed at a great moment!

So you're saying that five out of his seven jumping passes have music cues? Maybe his FS layout is organized around the music after all

Personally, I feel the placement of his 3Lz, 4S, 4T3T, and 3A more or less musical, and the euler combo less so, because violin sounds are more sustained and don't really go together with the disjointed rhythm of a jumping pass. I love how the 3Lz marks the transition between Metamorphosis and the violin concerto, and the 4S feeds off the tension of the climaxing music well. His second jump was the 3Lo at ISP2/SkAm, and he went into the jump with a spread eagle and a little arm movement, and without so much as looking back for checking. To me it was the nicest little sequence in the whole program (outside of the step sequence). Unfortunately he couldn't do the eagle and did need to check when he upgraded that jump to the 4F3T.

Never mind that we have yet to see Nathan skate a 4-5 quad program with easier quads in the 2nd half absolutely cleanly

Does Nats 19 count for you

The current layout is already quite insane and pushing him hard, but if they really want to pursue bigger tech they could probably switch from the 4T3T to the 4F3T in the second half. Honestly, if the fact that his score at this year's Nationals is lower than the previous two despite much more difficult tech content tells him anything, it's that he should max out those GOEs instead of BV (and please get those spin levels). OTOH, I think he's smart enough to know to max out both. I don't know what happened to those softly landed buttery jumps from the second half of the 18/19 season, but I wish to see their return.

 

[Joe Mendoza]

I live in crazy land, but maybe in an alternative universe, Nathan can rock these layouts:
SP: 4Lz 4A 4T4T
FS: 4Lz 4T4T 4A 4Lo 4T1eu3F 4F3T 4S

 

[sheetz]

I live in crazy land, but maybe in an alternative universe, Nathan can rock these layouts:
SP: 4Lz 4A 4T4T
FS: 4Lz 4T4T 4A 4Lo 4T1eu3F 4F3T 4S

Unfortunately 4-4 is not permitted in the short under the current rules.

 

[lurkz2]

I live in crazy land, but maybe in an alternative universe, Nathan can rock these layouts:
SP: 4Lz 4A 4T4T
FS: 4Lz 4T4T 4A 4Lo 4T1eu3F 4F3T 4S

They're probably working towards those.

The softly landed buttery jumps were for layouts Nathan has been training and competing regularly. I think he's being stretched by the current layout.

I take Raf's suggestions as simply examples of ways to increase BV and not necessarily an indication of what he actually plans for Nathan. I've cranked the numbers before and the only really worthwhile upgrade is adding a 4Lo.

I'm sure they're aware of that but IMO the reorganization of the jumps was not primarily for the current base value but to prepare for the introduction of the 4Lo. I actually think Nathan is already training that layout.

GPF 2019 his layout was 4F3T 4Lz 4TEu3S 3A 4S 4T 3Lz3T. There'd be no improvement in base value if the 4Lo were to replace a 4F or 4Lz not to mention that Nathan would probably find it difficult to do a quad combo after a 4Lo. Early in the season Nathan was training to perfect doing quad combos in the back half of his program with almost the same base value. The true increase would come when a 4Lo would replace the 3Lz placeholder.

I think they have been following this cycle for years. I remember Nathan as a junior with most jumps backloaded. Then the 4T and 4Sal combos came and were placed early in the program. Then he started moving the 4T combo behind to make way for the 4Lz and 4F.

I think Nathan and his team set different goals for each competition. The softly landed buttery jumps used to come in GPF, Nationals and Worlds when he was skating to score well. Most of the experimental combos were tested in the first half of the season and GPFs, which was not possible this year.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Really, the step sequence?? That's a first, care to elaborate? (or maybe it's his choreo sequence they have in mind?)

I mean, they often pick apart his elements technically and I've seen many times self-proclaimed experts claim that he not only messed up a step, but didn't even do certain steps in his step sequences to deserve the level 3-4 that he got (meanwhile those steps were clearly there for anyone with functioning eyes to see, so it's more than hilarious for them to be this desperate to disparage him).

But apart from that, yes there's always insane hate on Nathan, not only his skating but also him as a person, especially on Twitter but also elsewhere. It's reallys soured not only Nathan's skating for me, which I used to enjoy 'innocently' without picking it apart via the ISU rulebook, because it simply looked the most pleasing and beautiful to me out of all the skaters (those were the times, sigh). But it has also made it impossible for me to enjoy other skaters, especially Yuzu (obviously). I guess it's my own fault for not being able to stay away from the internet, I seem to be masochistic that way.

I'm not sure some of these people can actually name turns when they see them in sequences...
It seems like mostly the people with firsthand skating experience who are actually able to identify turns (and clean ones at that). And people who actually skate generally seem to like Nathan - even if some don't, nobody disputes that he's meeting technical requirements for steps.

I like Nathan but have to admit Nationals was a rough outing. He seemed a bit tense and withdrawn compared to Skate America/ISP. Hopefully it's just the result of some rejigging behind the scenes with a bigger goal in mind...

 

[Gilligan]

Nationals gave me a whole new perspective on his FS. It's so beautiful! Only now do I see how gorgeous. I thought I liked it before, but now I love it. Especially the step sequence. The phrasing, the flow, the delicate touch. Such beautiful arms and hands. His facial expressions, his performance intensity was spot on during that part: committed, yet not over the top.

( I'm sure he could make me see more nuances and moments on a different occasion, if he gets to compete it again.)

shine is right--so nice to have an outfit that doesn't swallow his neck.

 

[BabySloth]

I like this short interview:

#ToyotaUSChamps21 - Nathan Chen Interview

Nathan Chen arrival interview at the 2021 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating Championships.

www.youtube.com