- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
And costume designers! I wanna see the cuffed 3/4 sleeves back!
Nathan Chen
- Thread starter matmuh
- Start date
And costume designers! I wanna see the cuffed 3/4 sleeves back!
@sheetz the discipline I am talking about is more of a structure of everyday life, Yuzuru's mom is still taking care of that living with Yuzuru in Toronto. It will be difficult for Nathan to handle those all by himself. As for training mate, as long as he has a couple of friends on ice, so that he would be lonely that is good enough. I think only skaters on the same level pushes each other, like Yuzu and Javi, VM and PC.
my wish lists from Nathan's coach whoever he/she may be:
only allows him to include a new jump into a program when the jump can be executed successfully at a certain rate (80-90%, as I recall that was the rule Frank Carrol set for Michelle Kwan)
once a jump is included in a program, it is part of the program and cannot be taken out on based on how he feels of the day
sets a realistic goal at the beginning of the season and has him train the same program all season long
the programs might not be executed perfectly at the beginning of the season, but by the end of the season it should feel comfortable and look polished
No need to take these seriously, since these come from a nobody.
only allows him to include a new jump into a program when the jump can be executed successfully at a certain rate (80-90%, as I recall that was the rule Frank Carrol set for Michelle Kwan)
once a jump is included in a program, it is part of the program and cannot be taken out on based on how he feels of the day
sets a realistic goal at the beginning of the season and has him train the same program all season long
the programs might not be executed perfectly at the beginning of the season, but by the end of the season it should feel comfortable and look polished
No need to take these seriously, since these come from a nobody.
Nathan in the interview revealed that he didnot put enough attention in the Sp, more focused on the long...
Just a thought came to me, Nathan should have avoided Nationals, if he is injured/unhealthy that he have to take out the lutz, and focus on OG. I think USFS will give him a pass considering his achievement this season. This would take away some media attention from him as well.
Just a thought came to me, Nathan should have avoided Nationals, if he is injured/unhealthy that he have to take out the lutz, and focus on OG. I think USFS will give him a pass considering his achievement this season. This would take away some media attention from him as well.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2018
What an insightful and moving article of her and the special relationship they share together. Thanks for sharing.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
HEY everybody! Tomorrow there's an upcoming interview with Rafael!! 
It's written by famous Russian figure skating journalist and her interviews are always big, informative and sometimes provocative 
That's why I'm so excited - there probably will be something interesting, especially consifering that Raf doesn't give interviews very often.
There's a catch-phrase excerpt the journalist has thrown to pique readers' interest:
So I'm waiting for tomorrow!
It's written by famous Russian figure skating journalist and her interviews are always big, informative and sometimes provocative That's why I'm so excited - there probably will be something interesting, especially consifering that Raf doesn't give interviews very often.
There's a catch-phrase excerpt the journalist has thrown to pique readers' interest:
So I'm waiting for tomorrow!
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2017
The eldest should be either Alice or Janice (though I'm leaning more on Alice) since I think I've read somewhere that the sisters are more fluent in Chinese?
Then Tony, Colin and Nathan.
On the other hand, I really love the article about his mom. Thank you for sharing that! :thumbsup:
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
HEY everybody! Tomorrow there's an upcoming interview with Rafael!!
Oh well, it's already out, good morning everyone.https://rsport.ria.ru/winter2018_analytics/20180221/1133017291.html
Update: translation available here https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/vaytskekhovskayas-interview-with-arutyunian.103449/
Ok, now I'm gonna write down my impressions...
Oof, it's so heard to read this, I'm very nervous reading what Rafael said. There's a certain tension between him and Nathan and they definetily do not look like a family or smthng.
Omg, I'm going further, it's so hard to read. Nathan didn't listen to Rafael at all.
And yes, Nathan had an injury in his left leg, confirmed. Severe pain.
Rafael says there MUST NOT be 2 problematic jumps [Lutz and Flip] in the same program (not to mention 3A). But Nathan insisted on jumping them both + he only let Rafael know at 6 am before the competition!
Nathan didn't apologize to Rafael after the SP but Rafael says he thinks Nathan understood that Raf forgave him.
Nathan only finally apologized after the LP.
Ohhh, Nathan's family is involved. Confirmed. Nathan is ill now, confirmed. Rafael doesn't know whether they're gonna participate in Worlds (because Nathan's got some virus, his doctor even called Rafael and told him to start taking antiviral pills and because... well, read further). I can't, I'm so sad and angry with his parents...
This part breaks my heart:
Rafael says they had a planned content for the SP (there's been a lot of speculations about Rafael not planning a layout). It was Toeloop and flip. But Nathan decided to change it to lutz and flip.
That's it, guys. I'm so, so upset and afraid and disappointed. (I didn't quote you the whole interview, there's a lot of sad and bad things to read...)
Idk... please read it and share your thoughts here.Update: translation available here https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/vaytskekhovskayas-interview-with-arutyunian.103449/
https://youtu.be/i0NndStY5Rw
These are insiders discussing about Nathan at the beginning.
They cringe because Nathan keeps changing jump content.
They also suggest it is his mom driving this.
Raf puts up with this because he wants to keep Nathan as his student.
OK, she really needs to back off.
No doubt she is a great mom, but she obviously doesn't know this is insane.
For those of you who insist she is not too involved in his skating, listen to what these people have to say.
This explains a ton of things to me.
What an eye opener!
These are insiders discussing about Nathan at the beginning.
They cringe because Nathan keeps changing jump content.
They also suggest it is his mom driving this.
Raf puts up with this because he wants to keep Nathan as his student.
OK, she really needs to back off.
No doubt she is a great mom, but she obviously doesn't know this is insane.
For those of you who insist she is not too involved in his skating, listen to what these people have to say.
This explains a ton of things to me.
What an eye opener!
So Raf has broken his silence and told the truth.
No need for me to write any letter.
It is clear the mom is in the drivers seat.
No coach is going to save Nathan.
I have no doubt she is a loving mom.
But she should not be his coach.
Poor Nathan. Poor Raf.
If the coach/student relationship ends here because of Raf speaking out which could alienate the real coach, who would dare to coach Nathan?
This was my biggest fear.
Sorry to Nathan.
He is not arrogant. Someone behind the sense is...
No need for me to write any letter.
It is clear the mom is in the drivers seat.
No coach is going to save Nathan.
I have no doubt she is a loving mom.
But she should not be his coach.
Poor Nathan. Poor Raf.
If the coach/student relationship ends here because of Raf speaking out which could alienate the real coach, who would dare to coach Nathan?
This was my biggest fear.
Sorry to Nathan.
He is not arrogant. Someone behind the sense is...
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
Raf is always a good interview. 
Very candid. I'd say there's tension, yes - but it also rings clear how much Raf cares for Nathan. He understands that he's 18 and he's gotta figure this stuff out. He says he'll work with Nathan as long as Nathan wants to work with him. I could tell Raf was wanting to cry watching Nathan after the long program and he confirmed in there, calling what Nathan did a heroic deed. I don't get the feeling that Raf has any qualms with Nathan at all, more like the machine around him.
I think we're just gonna have to see what happens. Nathan's either going to realize that the strategy isn't working, or he's not. He's gotten this far with things going the way they seem to be behind the scenes, but I wouldn't be surprised if even he realizes things might need to change.
Very candid. I'd say there's tension, yes - but it also rings clear how much Raf cares for Nathan. He understands that he's 18 and he's gotta figure this stuff out. He says he'll work with Nathan as long as Nathan wants to work with him. I could tell Raf was wanting to cry watching Nathan after the long program and he confirmed in there, calling what Nathan did a heroic deed. I don't get the feeling that Raf has any qualms with Nathan at all, more like the machine around him. I think we're just gonna have to see what happens. Nathan's either going to realize that the strategy isn't working, or he's not. He's gotten this far with things going the way they seem to be behind the scenes, but I wouldn't be surprised if even he realizes things might need to change.
Saving face is huge for Chinese people.
I am from Taiwan, so I know this too well.
Raf's interview is very explosive.
I wonder how Nathan's mom would react to this.
I don't think she would be too pleased about it...
I have no doubt that Raf wants to work with Nathan as long as he wants to continue.
Raf always wants to keep Nathan, so he allows his family to take control.
It is never an issue.
Now the real issue is how the real coach reacts to this...
I am from Taiwan, so I know this too well.
Raf's interview is very explosive.
I wonder how Nathan's mom would react to this.
I don't think she would be too pleased about it...
I have no doubt that Raf wants to work with Nathan as long as he wants to continue.
Raf always wants to keep Nathan, so he allows his family to take control.
It is never an issue.
Now the real issue is how the real coach reacts to this...
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Oh please, I would not call Dave Lease and his buddy Jonathan skating insiders. What they are speculating about Nathan and his mom is nothing more than what you are guessing here - fan speculation and gossip. They probably just assumed Nathan’s mom is involved because she is an Asian skating mom.
Also, Raf never suggested it’s his mom that’s making the calls. It sounds more like it’s Nathan himself who feels indebted to his family and parents and decided to go for broke. I cannot imagine any sane parent would push their kids to do what he did being aware of his injury. I agree with another poster that Raf is disturbed by the machine and pressure around him but not necessarily this selfish tiger mom that you seem to think is the case.
as for lay-out, at SA Nathan's 4lutz is golden (his fav jump). the planned is 4lz+3t, 4f, 3A, and it is a doable layout for Nathan at that time.
Nathan must have injured somehow afterwards (feel so sad for him), so they took the lutz off changed to 4F-3T, 4T, 3A at Nationals and a repeat 4flip 5quads FS,
I think afterwards, they may still considered/trained to somehow put the lutz back in despite Nathan's left foot condition. as we saw in that practice clip, it seems Nathan is training 4LZ at the second half as solo jump. Another SP lay-out.
then at OG, Nathan's foot is still hurting, so they chose the easier SP lay-out, same as Nationals, did not practice lutz before TE as well, go for the easier lay-out for the TE SP(should be sufficient), I think all these should be in alliance with Raf's advise, however, unfortunately, bombed SP still.
Nathan idolizes Jordan, Phelp. because according to him "They can push through every thing", he think himself can push thru everything as well.
So he practiced 6-quad FS lay-out and decided to do what you all saw in individual SP and FS
Actually the scheduled FS lay-out given to the judges is the same repeat 4flip 5 quad national layout.
but Nathan indeed practices 6-quad lay-out and 3F-LO-3S before FS and in previous practice clips before OG. So it means the 6-quad layout is not just a random crazy idea came out of nowhere before FS, they (Team Nathan) still has considered it and practiced it before, according to Nathan, they have been working on it, but never came together.
All seems very chaotic, I am NOT sure we should immediately jump-on blame the tiger mom bandwagon.
It seems to me, they lacked proper evaluation of Nathan's ability as well as accurate evaluation of his opponents' situation. Do not have a proper goal setting due to lack of evaluation.
Comparing to how Team BO handled Yuzuru's injury, I think Team Nathan lost the game here.
They may indeed wanted the OG Gold Medal too fast.
Yes Jordan, Phelps can push through everything, but how to achieve it, may not be as obvious as it showed on the surface.
Maybe Nathan can have a chat with those great people, e.g. Kurt Browning, he already send him the olive leaf.
Nathan needs to figure it out for himself as well.
my fav figure skater(also role model) Yuna Kim has a very clear picture/vision of her dreams and what she wanna achieve in her life. And the meaning of them all. I think Nathan can learn from Yuna Queen as well.
About injury/sickness prevention.. it is kinda sad that they still careless about that.. In US nationals, Vincent's whole family was wearing mask in order to prevent from flu, yet in South Korea, Nathan still caught a cold, despite how many times fans on all social media outlet reminded him of that.
Seems, team Nathan really lacks experience...
- - - Updated - - -
A link please. begging.
Nathan must have injured somehow afterwards (feel so sad for him), so they took the lutz off changed to 4F-3T, 4T, 3A at Nationals and a repeat 4flip 5quads FS,
I think afterwards, they may still considered/trained to somehow put the lutz back in despite Nathan's left foot condition. as we saw in that practice clip, it seems Nathan is training 4LZ at the second half as solo jump. Another SP lay-out.
then at OG, Nathan's foot is still hurting, so they chose the easier SP lay-out, same as Nationals, did not practice lutz before TE as well, go for the easier lay-out for the TE SP(should be sufficient), I think all these should be in alliance with Raf's advise, however, unfortunately, bombed SP still.
Nathan idolizes Jordan, Phelp. because according to him "They can push through every thing", he think himself can push thru everything as well.
So he practiced 6-quad FS lay-out and decided to do what you all saw in individual SP and FS
Actually the scheduled FS lay-out given to the judges is the same repeat 4flip 5 quad national layout.
but Nathan indeed practices 6-quad lay-out and 3F-LO-3S before FS and in previous practice clips before OG. So it means the 6-quad layout is not just a random crazy idea came out of nowhere before FS, they (Team Nathan) still has considered it and practiced it before, according to Nathan, they have been working on it, but never came together.
All seems very chaotic, I am NOT sure we should immediately jump-on blame the tiger mom bandwagon.
It seems to me, they lacked proper evaluation of Nathan's ability as well as accurate evaluation of his opponents' situation. Do not have a proper goal setting due to lack of evaluation.
Comparing to how Team BO handled Yuzuru's injury, I think Team Nathan lost the game here.
They may indeed wanted the OG Gold Medal too fast.
Yes Jordan, Phelps can push through everything, but how to achieve it, may not be as obvious as it showed on the surface.
Maybe Nathan can have a chat with those great people, e.g. Kurt Browning, he already send him the olive leaf.
Nathan needs to figure it out for himself as well.
my fav figure skater(also role model) Yuna Kim has a very clear picture/vision of her dreams and what she wanna achieve in her life. And the meaning of them all. I think Nathan can learn from Yuna Queen as well.
About injury/sickness prevention.. it is kinda sad that they still careless about that.. In US nationals, Vincent's whole family was wearing mask in order to prevent from flu, yet in South Korea, Nathan still caught a cold, despite how many times fans on all social media outlet reminded him of that.
Seems, team Nathan really lacks experience...
- - - Updated - - -
A link please. begging.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Really fascinating interview. If true it does explain a lot of things. Hopefully Nathan and his team can learn from this experience and move forward.
Video: Nathan Chen Explains: How I Pulled off My Historic 6 Quadruple Jumps at the Olympics
Explaining why he went for 6 quads: https://twitter.com/TeamUSA/status/966010325538504704
Cute interactions with Adam You can really see how Adam acts like the big brother.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W-cZD_eDmM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfbcVNaFwr2/?hl=en&taken-by=adaripp
Congratulations from Shae
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfbX2goFwml/
Video: Nathan Chen Explains: How I Pulled off My Historic 6 Quadruple Jumps at the Olympics
Explaining why he went for 6 quads: https://twitter.com/TeamUSA/status/966010325538504704
Cute interactions with Adam You can really see how Adam acts like the big brother.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W-cZD_eDmM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfbcVNaFwr2/?hl=en&taken-by=adaripp
Congratulations from Shae
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfbX2goFwml/
This is getting somewhat ridiculous.
When I mentioned Nathan's interview after LP, he specifically said his mom always encourages him to push his limitation and thus supported to go for 6 quads, people said no, his mom merely provided support but not calling the shots.
After Raf spoke out and confirmed it, some still wanted to make it as solely Nathan's decision to go for broke. Yes, it might be his idea to start with, but it was obviously approved by his mom.
Raf also said Nathan told him he wanted to devoted the Olympic season to his family. This is exactly what those folks at TSL said: it's been the mom calling for jump contents throughout the season. Raf wants to keep Nathan so much, do he put up with that. Calling the shots did not just happen at the Olympics.
These don't seem like speculation to me at all.
You can choose to be in denial.
But I wasn't born yesterday.
I am a fan, and I am seriously amazed by the denial I see here.
I am speechless.
The criticism by the people at TSL and Sandra Bezic is that Nathan constantly changes his jump content.
I have no doubt he has been practicing the 6 quad layout.
As a matter of fact, he said that he didn't have great success with that layout.
But that is exactly what the criticism about: constantly changing the jump content, and cannot train the same program to build muscle memory.
Who made the call to train this way?
Nathan? Raf? Or mom?
Whoever called that, it is a mistake, a serious one.
More and more evidence points to the mom having a great deal of it.
The Olympic season would be devoted to the family, and thus the family calls the shots not the coach, as by Raf.
Who do you think calls for constantly changing jump layout?
When I mentioned Nathan's interview after LP, he specifically said his mom always encourages him to push his limitation and thus supported to go for 6 quads, people said no, his mom merely provided support but not calling the shots.
After Raf spoke out and confirmed it, some still wanted to make it as solely Nathan's decision to go for broke. Yes, it might be his idea to start with, but it was obviously approved by his mom.
Raf also said Nathan told him he wanted to devoted the Olympic season to his family. This is exactly what those folks at TSL said: it's been the mom calling for jump contents throughout the season. Raf wants to keep Nathan so much, do he put up with that. Calling the shots did not just happen at the Olympics.
These don't seem like speculation to me at all.
You can choose to be in denial.
But I wasn't born yesterday.
I am a fan, and I am seriously amazed by the denial I see here.
I am speechless.
The criticism by the people at TSL and Sandra Bezic is that Nathan constantly changes his jump content.
I have no doubt he has been practicing the 6 quad layout.
As a matter of fact, he said that he didn't have great success with that layout.
But that is exactly what the criticism about: constantly changing the jump content, and cannot train the same program to build muscle memory.
Who made the call to train this way?
Nathan? Raf? Or mom?
Whoever called that, it is a mistake, a serious one.
More and more evidence points to the mom having a great deal of it.
The Olympic season would be devoted to the family, and thus the family calls the shots not the coach, as by Raf.
Who do you think calls for constantly changing jump layout?
a few thought:
"It's a complicated feeling when you go out there knowing you'll lose. It was during that skate I started understanding what people who went to a battle knowing in advance they are doomed but must be there felt." quote from Raf
I have the same gut feeling about Nathan coming into OG, do not have the feeling about Yuna or Yuzuru (These skaters are my favs, I spent lots time observing them (as much as I can manage in person), collect info about them...)
Injury management, Nathan's ankle hurts too much, do they figure out a efficient way to relieve the pain a little, I knew Yuzuru is taking painkillers..
about changing coach. tbh, I have a very mixed feeling reading this article from Raf. it gave many insights, but one must wonder how will the other side (allegedly Nathan and family) respond to this. it feels Raf is pointing directly at them. Did Team Nathan decided to reveal his injury to public at all. As far as I know, Nathan won't even tell fans privately.
with this article out, can they even go back together, it feels like it already reached the point of no return.
Also, it seems communication is and has been a problem... not just this OG. can they fix the the communication issue in the future...How much faith in that..
There are many many asian tiger skating moms, but some coaches just have a way to effortlessly navigate through.
Maybe Nathan indeed can go for a coach change, get some new perspectives, learn some new skills, perhaps a better fit for his future figure skating career on a different level.
"It's a complicated feeling when you go out there knowing you'll lose. It was during that skate I started understanding what people who went to a battle knowing in advance they are doomed but must be there felt." quote from Raf
I have the same gut feeling about Nathan coming into OG, do not have the feeling about Yuna or Yuzuru (These skaters are my favs, I spent lots time observing them (as much as I can manage in person), collect info about them...)
Injury management, Nathan's ankle hurts too much, do they figure out a efficient way to relieve the pain a little, I knew Yuzuru is taking painkillers..
about changing coach. tbh, I have a very mixed feeling reading this article from Raf. it gave many insights, but one must wonder how will the other side (allegedly Nathan and family) respond to this. it feels Raf is pointing directly at them. Did Team Nathan decided to reveal his injury to public at all. As far as I know, Nathan won't even tell fans privately.
with this article out, can they even go back together, it feels like it already reached the point of no return.
Also, it seems communication is and has been a problem... not just this OG. can they fix the the communication issue in the future...How much faith in that..
There are many many asian tiger skating moms, but some coaches just have a way to effortlessly navigate through.
Maybe Nathan indeed can go for a coach change, get some new perspectives, learn some new skills, perhaps a better fit for his future figure skating career on a different level.
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