- Joined
- Oct 21, 2017
SP fancam!
https://youtu.be/e6cRapCh1DA
https://youtu.be/e6cRapCh1DA
Nathan Chen
- Thread starter matmuh
- Start date
Thanks. It's always interesting to me that Nathan and Rafael don't have the last minute encouragement or
words of wisdom interactions like any other athletes and coaches do before a performance starts.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
@oatmella, To be honest I think many skating fans these days might not see artistry and musicality the same way I see it or how I sense fans used to see it maybe a quad or two ago. There are many new fans drawn to skating by the styles displayed by the current top skaters who I personally don’t enjoy as much. I also played the piano for many years, and I always wonder if that has had an impact on how I view musicality in skating. I don’t want to sound arrogant but I do think Nathan’s more subtle (but more nuanced IMO) but less outward and straightforward expression may be harder for the general audience to pick up on when you view movement and music in a less nuanced and sensitive way yourself. He always struck me as someone who skates more to the music than perform for an audience.
Like I have mentioned here before, I started closely following Nathan upon seeing his SP from US Nationals last year. For me it was astounding to see this combination of musicality and dance ability after a long drought where I didn’t have any male skater that I was particularly drawn to. You can probably imagine how shocking it was then for me to see posts after posts criticizing him for not having artistry, because it was exactly *that* which drew me in and made me start following men’s skating again. At this point I really think some finer points are just missed for some people.
Like I have mentioned here before, I started closely following Nathan upon seeing his SP from US Nationals last year. For me it was astounding to see this combination of musicality and dance ability after a long drought where I didn’t have any male skater that I was particularly drawn to. You can probably imagine how shocking it was then for me to see posts after posts criticizing him for not having artistry, because it was exactly *that* which drew me in and made me start following men’s skating again. At this point I really think some finer points are just missed for some people.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2018
I wish Nathan to spend the rest of his skating career on developing his personal style to the fullest, I wish it more than him winning OG. People who use single standard to judge artistry are simply not educated or sensitive enough to appreciate beauty, so they grab an easy formula and plug it in.
@oatmella speaking of Nathan and Four Seasons https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kiH64S8mqYg
would actually love to see a new program like this, as a contrast to his modern programs (which I also love)
would actually love to see a new program like this, as a contrast to his modern programs (which I also love)
Nathan and Vincent at the practice rink. Nathan reportedly left early.
https://twitter.com/insideskating/status/977226216544591872
https://twitter.com/insideskating/status/977226216544591872
@oatmella the dynamics of figure skating forums are a tricky thing. I have been a figure skating fan since 2010 because of Yuna. And have been very intensively posting on a few skating forums since 2013. I have my share of frustration as well. So I will quote myself, "the loudest noise on figure skating forums are not usually equals the majority opinion"
The fact is that, only a small fraction of figure skating fans are posting on boards. Thus the opinion can be easily swayed by whoever have the most time to post (and normal people who need to work or go to school, usually don't have the time. e.g. I have spent way too much time than I should to post about skating, it actually is a struggle and dilemma for me some times. but as you know, I really am an avid figure skating fan
). or in some cases, organized campaigns (this is a very different situation, devoted fans like us can never compete with organized campaigns in terms of swaying opinions)
The hate towards new threat is quite normal as long as it is within an acceptable scope. Also depends on whom you are threatening. In other figure skating disciplines (except for men) , it is still pretty much civilized. But in nowadays men's figure skating, actually just one skater Yuzuru Hanyu. His fandom is way beyond what a figure skating fandom is... I would only put it like this. It is a phenomena world-wide, Since I am active on both Chinese and North America skating social media. I know this. I think it won't take a long time for any newbie figure skating fans to experience that themselves...
thus, you could imagine whoever maybe a threat of any kinda (literally any kinda not just figure skating competition within men's discipline).... The scale of hate will be beyond your imagination.
Another aspects of hate towards new threat is within US. simply put, US figure skating fandom is in its transition period, I think eventually Nathan and Vincent will get the love they deserves, as long as they are continuing being the leading men of USFS.
As for Nathan's musicality I will quote someone, which I think is pretty genius "people can appreciate musicality only up to the level of their own musicality". Another opposite example: YuliaLip is one of the skater with the weakest musicality (literally cannot hear music, as well as no sense of dance). yet, she was taunted as the most artistic protege, you see the irony. So, on the other hand, some people cannot appreciate an actually protege with rare innate musicality like Nathan is somewhat understandable...
The fact is that, only a small fraction of figure skating fans are posting on boards. Thus the opinion can be easily swayed by whoever have the most time to post (and normal people who need to work or go to school, usually don't have the time. e.g. I have spent way too much time than I should to post about skating, it actually is a struggle and dilemma for me some times. but as you know, I really am an avid figure skating fan
). or in some cases, organized campaigns (this is a very different situation, devoted fans like us can never compete with organized campaigns in terms of swaying opinions)The hate towards new threat is quite normal as long as it is within an acceptable scope. Also depends on whom you are threatening. In other figure skating disciplines (except for men) , it is still pretty much civilized. But in nowadays men's figure skating, actually just one skater Yuzuru Hanyu. His fandom is way beyond what a figure skating fandom is... I would only put it like this. It is a phenomena world-wide, Since I am active on both Chinese and North America skating social media. I know this. I think it won't take a long time for any newbie figure skating fans to experience that themselves...
thus, you could imagine whoever maybe a threat of any kinda (literally any kinda not just figure skating competition within men's discipline).... The scale of hate will be beyond your imagination.
Another aspects of hate towards new threat is within US. simply put, US figure skating fandom is in its transition period, I think eventually Nathan and Vincent will get the love they deserves, as long as they are continuing being the leading men of USFS.
As for Nathan's musicality I will quote someone, which I think is pretty genius "people can appreciate musicality only up to the level of their own musicality". Another opposite example: YuliaLip is one of the skater with the weakest musicality (literally cannot hear music, as well as no sense of dance). yet, she was taunted as the most artistic protege, you see the irony. So, on the other hand, some people cannot appreciate an actually protege with rare innate musicality like Nathan is somewhat understandable...
this is a jew. Such musicality in such a young age. One of Nathan's program really amazed me!! :luv17:
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
While I love Nathan’s modern edgy programs and think he’s about the only skater competing today who can do them justice, I also would not want him to give up on classical music. The problem is when we say classical music people tend to think the warhorses but classical music is really a vast ocean of complexity, richness and diversity. In skating we probably only touch maybe 5% of what’s actually out there and that’s precisely because classical music IS harder to skate to AND to interpret well. I don’t want Nathan to give up on that as I think he has the ability to bring out the different layers and nuances in many classical pieces which very few others can. One thing I love so much about him is his range and how well and completely different he does each genre.
@oatmella
musicality and acting (the facial expression etc. there is also theater on ice) are all parts of figure skating artistry (PCS, choreo, performance, interpretation categories). I personal values the MUSICALITY aspect the most in figure skating competition (besides technique), because you are skating to a piece of chosen music.
However, that does not mean we should detest acting just because it is not my personal most valued or because Nathan at this stage of his career has not utilized acting as often as some other skaters. if used properly, acting is also a great aspect of figure skating artistry. I do mean used "properly" tho. Musicality is the must/necessity in figure skating (cos you use music), yet acting is good but not a necessity, some music can be interpreted through body language only without much acting involved.
As for Nathan's future music choice, I personal would NOT restrict Nathan into his modern, cool "Nemesis" and Scandinavia EX style he pioneered recent seasons. I think a talent like Nathan, he is versatile, he should be able to handle and explore all kinda of music. Confine Nathan in his current Nemesis style and claim that is "his style" (or skate only to cool music for the sake of being cool) is actually a way of stereotype. Look at artistic master Yuna Kim, she broke out because of her one-of-a-kind danse macabre, yet she never restricted herself in the genre that made her stand-out/popular, look at the repertoire and artistic range she had in her career.
musicality and acting (the facial expression etc. there is also theater on ice) are all parts of figure skating artistry (PCS, choreo, performance, interpretation categories). I personal values the MUSICALITY aspect the most in figure skating competition (besides technique), because you are skating to a piece of chosen music.
However, that does not mean we should detest acting just because it is not my personal most valued or because Nathan at this stage of his career has not utilized acting as often as some other skaters. if used properly, acting is also a great aspect of figure skating artistry. I do mean used "properly" tho. Musicality is the must/necessity in figure skating (cos you use music), yet acting is good but not a necessity, some music can be interpreted through body language only without much acting involved.
As for Nathan's future music choice, I personal would NOT restrict Nathan into his modern, cool "Nemesis" and Scandinavia EX style he pioneered recent seasons. I think a talent like Nathan, he is versatile, he should be able to handle and explore all kinda of music. Confine Nathan in his current Nemesis style and claim that is "his style" (or skate only to cool music for the sake of being cool) is actually a way of stereotype. Look at artistic master Yuna Kim, she broke out because of her one-of-a-kind danse macabre, yet she never restricted herself in the genre that made her stand-out/popular, look at the repertoire and artistic range she had in her career.
speaking of acting
Nathan's Chattanooga Choo Choo is always a delightful surprise. Even he cannot believe he can skate/acting like that, quote him ("what was I doing"). But eventually, he performed it with such charm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHVKoCPmxNA
Nathan's Chattanooga Choo Choo is always a delightful surprise. Even he cannot believe he can skate/acting like that, quote him ("what was I doing"). But eventually, he performed it with such charm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHVKoCPmxNA
@oatmella according to Nathan's mom, he likes Mozart and was talked into Mao's last Dancer. like he was talked into Chattanooga Choo Choo/MJ. don't know about who chose Nemesis for him though (I think it is 100% Shae's suggestion including "no good") I think last season's 2 programs are chosen by Zueva catering to his ballet background as well.
I think Nathan may have some facial expression potential (like he showed in Choo Choo and last dancer), but I kinda think Nathan will feel embarrassed to do a "high drama facial expression" like Misha Ge.
I think Nathan may have some facial expression potential (like he showed in Choo Choo and last dancer), but I kinda think Nathan will feel embarrassed to do a "high drama facial expression" like Misha Ge.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2018
@oatmella I feel you girl. Two years ago, I was very shock at the viciousness behind the attacks in forums and on YouTube. The basic etiquette of politeness is nowhere to be found, what happened to agreeably disagreeing. But then I realized the type of skaters FS has had in the last 10 years favor a more conservative traditionalist with warhorses which is fine. What Nathan represents is a whole new evolution of artistry and techniques for FS. Change is always met by resistance especially the fandom Hanyu in particular garners. Think of it this way, Nathan is so good (with room to grow and improve) it’s alarming to his fandom, it speaks volume and in an odd way I’m proud of what he has done. Like some athletes he looks up to, all had haters, a tons of them and what they bring to their sports will speak for itself when it’s all said and done.
Love the genuius quote yyyskate shared - “people can appreciate musicality only up to the level of their own musicality", exactly and let them be.
What shine commented is holds truth. The classical warhorses current skaters have tapped into is so minimal in this vast ocean of brilliance and if anyone can do do them justice, Nathan is a top candidate. His range is diverse and with the blend of ballet and modern dances, he can interpret them very well allowing audiences to see classical music in a new light.
Love the genuius quote yyyskate shared - “people can appreciate musicality only up to the level of their own musicality", exactly and let them be.
What shine commented is holds truth. The classical warhorses current skaters have tapped into is so minimal in this vast ocean of brilliance and if anyone can do do them justice, Nathan is a top candidate. His range is diverse and with the blend of ballet and modern dances, he can interpret them very well allowing audiences to see classical music in a new light.
Hmm, I'm quite certain Vivaldi was Catholic...
Anyway, I think Nathan should continue working with different choreographers and just let them make the music choices. A lot of people have mentioned Tom Dickson and I agree that might be an interesting collaboration.
:rofl2: Love ya sooo much:luv17:- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
This is one of my fav programs of Nathan as a junior. I love eveything about it, especially his movements. He seems emotionally involved in it. Also, adore his final spin and the final pose so much!!! So much energy flows into a smooth final movement.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
Yes, yes and yes. I'd actually like not to discuss it here because it's the only "safe" space where we can be sure will be no critics.
Not only it happens on this forum but in other communities, not English speaking only. The most popular pretension is that he has many empty spaces in his programs and that his landings aren't beautiful. Yes, there are empty spaces sometimes\many crossovers in a row, but god, the boy doesn't receive Hanyu's or Patrick PCs either! He gets what he deserves! There are even fan-made graphs showing PCs increase in men's top5. It's clearly shown that Nathan's PCs increase slowly and they're low, somewhere near to BOyang, as long as Shoma's PCs started very high and are continuing to grow. Nathan's PCs started low and are growing slowly. So why are the haters screaming about Nathan being OVERSCORED I don't know. Ugh.
But at least we can choose what to read, what to ignore! You can always create an adequate atmosphere around you.
she’s human too. These teen phenomenon are dealing with expectation and pressure beyond their young budding career.after the lady's FS I am now a little nervous about Nathan (okay, always nervous about Nathan..), skate last and with the highest expectations again(no less than OG considering SP placed 1st).
Hope he can skate like he said in interview, do not focus on placement just do the best he can.
of all the lady's performance the one moved me the most is Wakaba, I hope Nathan can gave a performance like that in the FS. placement/medals really does not matter.
Hope he can skate like he said in interview, do not focus on placement just do the best he can.
of all the lady's performance the one moved me the most is Wakaba, I hope Nathan can gave a performance like that in the FS. placement/medals really does not matter.
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