Nathan Chen | Page 409 | Golden Skate

Nathan Chen

yyyskate said:
Too lazy to pull out all those Raf interviews (Russian or not) to make it like a Math proof here. You can acclaim what you acclaim.
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yyyskate, I must say if you want to convince people of something references are quite important. We could be doing the I think, he thinks, they think all day. And it doesn't mean it's true.
 
shine said:
I do think it comes from a lot of presumptions on our part, though not entirely baseless: it's a combination of him being known foremost as a jump specialist, his (recent) skaters not being particularly known for their ss (as well as Nathan not having made as much improvement in ss as many would've liked/expected since his junior days when he was known particularly for his skilled blade work and for being a very well rounded skater), and Nathan's own devotion to quads in the recent years (which I get the feeling Raf is not 100% supportive of).

I think the verdict is still out though and I'm reserving judgement. I've cited Alexander Abt, his pupil of the longest time span, as an example of impressive skating skills as well as nice lines.
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don't know much about Abt, just heard from others he is heavily injured during most of his career.
 
shine said:
I do think it comes from a lot of presumptions on our part, though not entirely baseless: it's a combination of him being known foremost as a jump specialist, his (recent) skaters not being particularly known for their ss (as well as Nathan not having made as much improvement in ss as many would've liked/expected since his junior days when he was known particularly for his skilled blade work and for being a very well rounded skater), and Nathan's devotion to quads in the recent years.

I think the verdict is still out though. I've cited Alexander Abt, his pupil of the longest time span, as an example of impressive skating skills as well as nice lines.
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Well yes HE is a jump specialist and that’s what he primarily works on but his team is composed of many others outside of him. Adam’s artistry is talked about ad naseum, Ashley’s skills got better under Raf, and Nathan was as you said was known for his artistry during his during years...under Raf. The last two years for Nathan primarily focusing on technique was obviously a strategy but it seems that narrative about Raf not caring about components came namely after Nathan started being known for his technique. Nadia has been working with Nathan since he was a child on his SS, performance etc. Idk just seems a bit weird that people would really think he doesn’t care about components. He has different strategies for different skaters but he’s mostly trained well rounded skaters.
 
shine said:
yyyskate, I must say if you want to convince people of something references are quite important. We could be doing the I think, he thinks, they think all day. And it doesn't mean it's true.
Click to expand...

Exactly, I am not trying to convince people here. I am just giving an opionion, at times I will cite like I did before, at times I won't, too lazy, not a math proof. but I never cared about convincing anyone. just an opinion, always, just an opinion, whoever see my opinion and wish to find proof, they can dig deeper and try to find proof. and make their own judgement. And I make my conclusion based on my own observation of things.
 
also. all these opinions about Raf is getting repetitive on Nathan's FF, when it is first been discussed, Articles are cited etc.

will just wait and see what happenes with Nathan's skating career.
 
oatmella said:
http://fs-gossips.com/rafael-arutyunyan-being-an-athlete-is-not-a-profession-it-is-philosophy/

I feel that Raf did place blame on Nathan and his family in this interview. Not just simply disagreeing with Nathan listening to his family.
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This is where things are perceived differently between us: the word "blaming". Why victimize anyone? Or why does the Olympics have to be anyone's fault in particular? It could be so many things. I read it as him telling us about a reality (at least what he perceived as reality) and telling as it is. To me it was more of a reflection of his frustration rather than him blaming Nathan in particular for anything. If we must use the word blame, I could also say he's "blaming" himself for being helpless in this situation and not being able to change the inevitable.
 
^ All topics will get repetitive here, just like how Yale and Nathan’s SS skills etc etc all get repeated when the topic comes up again. That’s the nature of FF. If it’s relevant, it will be brought up again.

shine said:
This is where things are perceived differently between us: the word "blaming". I read it as him telling us about a reality (at least what he perceived as reality) and telling as it is. To me it was more of a reflection of his frustration rather than him blaming Nathan in particular for anything. If we must use the word blame, I could also say he's "blaming" himself for being helpless in this situation and not being able to change the inevitable.
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Yes, totally agree.
 
shine said:
This is where things are perceived differently between us: the word "blaming". I read it as him telling us about a reality (at least what he perceived as reality) and telling as it is. To me it was more of a reflection of his frustration rather than him blaming Nathan in particular for anything. If we must use the word blame, I could also say he's "blaming" himself for being helpless in this situation and not being able to change the inevitable.
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the way people spin around words. :biggrin: help the FF move forwards fast tho.:biggrin:
 
yyyskate said:
the way people spin around words. :biggrin: help the FF move forwards fast tho.:biggrin:
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There's no incentive or motivation for me to "spin" for Raf. I'm not his agent, don't know him and don't really care that much about him beyond the fact he's a long time coach of Nathan's. So why would I "spin" whatever he says?
 
shine said:
This is where things are perceived differently between us: the word "blaming". I read it as him telling us about a reality (at least what he perceived as reality) and telling as it is. To me it was more of a reflection of his frustration rather than him blaming Nathan in particular for anything. If we must use the word blame, I could also say he's "blaming" himself for being helpless in this situation and not being able to change the inevitable.
Click to expand...

I guess different perception/reading of this interview and that’s ok! But I read it more like - the blame for the OG result lies with Nathan and his family. For what happened at individual event SP - going for the difficult jumps (against Raf’s wishes), Nathan choosing to listen to his family over Raf. As a result of this, Raf was left helpless in this situation - but I actually do not read that he is blaming himself for feeling helpless here. More that he blamed Nathan and his family for the situation which caused him to feel helpless.
 
shine said:
There's no incentive or motivation for me to "spin" for Raf. I don't know him and don't really care that much about him beyond the fact he's a long time coach of Nathan's. So why would I "spin" whatever he says?
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"spin" -- people interprets words differently thus move Nathan's FF forwards fast.
 
well, speaking of incentive.
my ultimate incentive is for Nathan to improve figure skating in all aspects, to be true master in figure skating and has a coach that understands him, appreciates him and communicates with him mutually well.

also, foresee his weakness in figure skating and being resourceful when he needed help, can protect/shield him and share the responsibility in difficult times.
 
oatmella said:
I guess different perception/reading of this interview and that’s ok! But I read it more like - the blame for the OG result lies with Nathan and his family. For what happened at individual event SP - going for the difficult jumps (against Raf’s wishes), Nathan choosing to listen to his family over Raf. As a result of this, Raf was left helpless in this situation - but I actually do not read that he is blaming himself for feeling helpless here. More that he blamed Nathan and his family for the situation which caused him to feel helpless.
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If I had one criticism of that interview, it's that I don't think Raf revealed enough. He dropped all these vague hints here and there but never fully explained what actually happened and that to me was sort of irresponsible. What did the family want Nathan to do? Did they actually care what layout Nathan was going for, and would feel Nathan was not doing enough to pay back their dedication to his career if he didn't' go for the hardest layout (5 quads)? What did Nathan mean by "dedicating the entire season to his family"? Did Nathan's mom actually tell him to go for the more difficult layout in the SP or was it Nathan's own decision? I felt the insinuation that his family needs him to win the Olys to pay them back was so unimaginable and unreasonable and naturally there were so many questions unanswered after that interview.
 
shine said:
I do think it comes from a lot of presumptions on our part, though not entirely baseless: it's a combination of him being known foremost as a jump specialist, his (recent) skaters not being particularly known for their ss (as well as Nathan not having made as much improvement in ss as many would've liked/expected since his junior days when he was known particularly for his skilled blade work and for being a very well rounded skater), and Nathan's own devotion to quads in the recent years (which I get the feeling Raf is not 100% supportive of).

I think the verdict is still out though and I'm reserving judgement. I've cited Alexander Abt, his pupil of the longest time span, as an example of impressive skating skills as well as nice lines.
Click to expand...


Thank you Shine, except the Alexander abt part, you said exactly what I would like to say. As to the post about Abt's frequent injury, Yuzuru is injured all the time, and at one time Yuzuru fans were very unhappy about it, but could people really fault BO on Yuzuru's injury?

And I don't think Raf doesn't think PCS is not important. As to how good his team in helping the skaters with that part I don't know. But I have the impression that for him and Nathan, things happens at different time. At the end of the interview, probably at 15', Raf did talk about Nathan is behind in some other aspects and would work on those.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR20DcQEP7E



disclaimer: I am not saying if Raf/Nathan's approach is right or good, just that it is not Raf and his team doesn't place importance on PCS.
 
^^ Honestly all that other stuff I didn’t think was all that important in terms of detail, the main point was that Raf wanted Nathan to do one thing, Nathan decided to do another (for whatever reason, family being a possible factor) and it ended up backfiring on him. It left both feeling frustrated at the situation but they were able to overcome it. That’s the moral of the story
 
do not read what they say too much, watch what they do.

I am watching my beloved Nathan's Figure skating only from now on.

Eyes on Nathan @Mamamiia
 
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