Nathan Chen

[zebobes]

4Lo at JO is like a tradition by now lol, but pretty sure he wants to stabilise his 4S first and be comfortable with jumping it together with Lz, F and T in one program, before even thinking about the 4Lo.
I also think he'd benefit more from attempting a 4T+4T combo in the short, before putting 4Lo in his free (which for him pretty much equals 6 quads, sigh. just no).

I do hope he takes it easy this time at JO with a watered down content, but for some reason he seems to be itching for some thrill at the beginning of each season, after not having competed for so long. (jk)

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that 4T+4T is not allowed in the short program, but I would also love to see it too.

 

[sheetz]

He'd have to petition for 4-4 to be allowed in the SP and I don't know if that's considered too big a change to be done before the Olympics.

 

[1111bm]

Oh is it? Does it say, that it has to be a triple as the second jump in a combo? Huh, ok, nevermind then.

 

[frida80]

I’ve been playing around with Nathan’s layout. From what I can see if Nathan does five quads, he should only add one triple axel. Because of the Zayak rule, he can only repeat one triple and one quad. If he goes for a 3A+2T it will be a lower base value than a 3Lz+3T. He should only add that second 3A is he can master a +3Lo on one of his quads and a +3T on his 3A.

As for a quad combo, that only becomes advantageous if he’s adds his 4Lo. Then he can add it on another quad or his 3A. I think he would be best on his 3A because it would raise the maximum GoEs he could receive. The BV would be insane: 110!

 

[sheetz]

Oh is it? Does it say, that it has to be a triple as the second jump in a combo?

I think it's either 4-3 or 3-4.

--------------------------------------

This is probably the optimal layout for Nathan with a 4S:

4Lz 4F 4S 3A / 4T3T 4T3T 3Lz1Eu3F

BV is about 6pts higher than his layout from Worlds. After that it becomes insanely more difficult to raise BV by a significant amount.

 

[TontoK]

I think it's either 4-3 or 3-4.

--------------------------------------

This is probably the most reasonable layout for Nathan with a 4S:

4Lz 4F 4S 3A / 4T3T 4T3T 3Lz1Eu3F

BV is about 6pts higher than his layout from Worlds. After that it becomes insanely more difficult to raise BV by a significant amount.

Could he do the exact same combo twice? I don't know the rule.

 

[sheetz]

Could he do the exact same combo twice? I don't know the rule.

Sure can. People do it all the time. The only repeated jumps would be 4T and 3T so no zayak.

 

[LutzDance]

This is probably the optimal layout for Nathan with a 4S:

4Lz 4F 4S 3A / 4T3T 4T3T 3Lz1Eu3F

BV is about 6pts higher than his layout from Worlds. After that it becomes insanely more difficult to raise BV by a significant amount.

This is a reasonable layout for him, but I don't think he has 3Lz1Eu3F? I actually wished that he had one, it'd be so pretty

Didn't he attempt a similar layout (with a 4S and two 4T3T) in one of the earlier practices at Worlds?

 

[sheetz]

This is a reasonable layout for him, but I don't think he has 3Lz1Eu3F? I actually wished that he had one, it'd be so pretty

He's never attempted 3lz1eu3f in competition but I think he should be able to do it pretty easily. At least it should be easier than perfecting 4Lo

Didn't he attempt a similar layout (with a 4S and two 4T3T) in one of the earlier practices at Worlds?

Yeah, I think so.

 

[discode]

Yeah, he was thinking of two 4T3T's at worlds, same layout mentioned but with a 3F1Eu3S instead. https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1107598638291648512

I'm really interested in what layouts he works on once he's out of school training full time.

 

[1111bm]

Yeah, we know that he can do a +1Eu+3F, I think we all remember this jump combo which was shown in some news snippet during the olympic season:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2kQKiMn8wv/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

I wonder why he never tucked it onto his 3Lz back then?
I guess it either wasn't as consistent, so he stuck with +1Eu+3S for his last jumping pass, since 5-6 quads garnered enough points already, or it was possibly his left ankle injury, that forced him to take long breaks from doing Lutzes since around Nationals.

But with 4S back in the mix (I expect this next season or the one after, although I'd be happier if he stuck with a 4 quad program), he might revisit that +1Eu+3F combo. It's 1,1 extra points after all.

 

[sheetz]

AT least this past season he couldn't do 3lz-1eu-3f because his other combo was 3lz-3t and would therefore zayak. 3f-1eu-3s was his only option.

New kicks from IGS
https://twitter.com/aboutNathan0505/status/1177674261235994629

 

[RainMaker]

i want nathan to do a 4t3t3lo combo, to go against shoma 3a4t and hanyu 4t3a i hope he bring something new

 

[sheetz]

He would only need 4T3T3Lo when/if he brings back 4Lo.

Then he could do

4Lz 4F 4Lo 4S / 4T3T3Lo 4T3T 3A2T

which would add another 5pts to his BV.

 

[oatmella]

I think Nathan should be very competitive this year with a more stable 4S.

4Lo, or crazy combos won’t likely be seen until next season or maybe not until the Olympic season. For this season, it would be great if he can maintain what he was capable of last season, plus hopefully the 4S.

 

[discode]

Agree! I hope the 4S makes a comeback (his WTT 4S was beautiful) and is more reliable for him. I don't expect to see a 4Lo this year, but again maybe as mentioned we'll see the annual attempt at JO.

And some of those crazy combos aren't even worth the effort, like the 4T3ASEQ isn't worth all that much more than a 4T3T, as cool as it is.

 

[1111bm]

AT least this past season he couldn't do 3lz-1eu-3f because his other combo was 3lz-3t and would therefore zayak. 3f-1eu-3s was his only option.

He could have done a 3Lo instead.
But that would only raise his overall BV by 0,6-0,66 points. I'd say raising your TES by such a small amount is easier and more reliably achieved through positive GOE on some other, tried and tested element.

And besides that, let's be realistic, he could barely pull off the +1Eu+3S in the end of his FS last season. Compare that to the ease with which he's done it during Olys season, he so obviously wasn't in the same shape anymore, and who can blame him (and given the circumstances, he still showed remarkable stamina).

He would only need 4T3T3Lo when/if he brings back 4Lo.

Then he could do

4Lz 4F 4Lo 4S / 4T3T3Lo 4T3T 3A2T

which would add another 5pts to his BV.

Yeah, that layout, no biggie, right?

But yeah +3T+3Lo isn't worth the risk, because the gain in points isn't that big compared to what he's doing now combo-wise (even less so if we swap the 3S with a 3F), and that combo has a high potential to be URed, nevermind the needed strength to pull it off and the strain on the right hip. There's a reason no one does it (not afaik?).

I say the best/safest strategy to increase BV is still simply adding quads. And/or doing two 3As, but only if there's a way to avoid doing a double, i.e. going for +3Lo or +4T or don't repeat any quad. But then we all know how much he struggles with the 3A...

Btw, curious (and anxious) to see how his 3A goes over the course of this season. :scard8:

 

[1111bm]

I think Nathan should be very competitive this year with a more stable 4S.

4Lo, or crazy combos won’t likely be seen until next season or maybe not until the Olympic season. For this season, it would be great if he can maintain what he was capable of last season, plus hopefully the 4S.

I don't think that's realistic. Maintaining four different quads at once with so little training time and no coach at your side to tweak details and make necessary adjustements sounds impossible.
He was already struggling with doing both 4Lz and 4F successfully in one program.

Also, adding 4S equals a 5 quad program, unless he's thinking of doing only one 4T and repeating two triples, possibly 3A? Which would only make sense if his 3A is more or less stable this season.
IMO he doesn't have the stamina currently to pull off 5 quads, unless he's fine with potentially messing up or URing a few jumping passes.

To me it looked like he was already struggling with 4 quads last season. That second 4T in LoA was consistently of a lower quality then his first quads and he was barely eking out that +1Eu+3S in the end.

I think he should stick to what he's done last season, work on the consistency of his 4F and 4Lz and cleaning up/improving all jumps in general (easier said than done of course, lol, that's pretty much the plan of every skater right?), especially some of his landings, but that's partly related to stamina too, I guess, and there's not much he can do about that while at Yale.

He should also start working on incorporating 4T more seamlessly into the program. I don't expect him to be able to do that with the more difficult quads such as F or Lz, and frankly, I don't mind say two jumping passes with a more obvious/longer set-up, when they're such big and difficult jumps. I find that kinda exciting and rewarding to watch, because it creates a certain tension and a feeling of anticipation in a program. But that effect wears off after the 3rd or 4th time . And by now he should be comfortable enough with the 4T to do it with minimal preparation time.

 

[oatmella]

Not sure about his current stamina level, but last season, I think it was affected by his constantly being sick.

5 quad program could possibly be something to work up to by Worlds, which seems to have been the goal last season.

Hoping for good health for him this season

 

[sheetz]

JO preview
https://youtu.be/XQdQrwUC7Ww

Flashback to last year's JO 6min warmup where they show Nathan's crazy planned layout: 4Lo, 3Lz, 3F3T, 3A, 4T2T2Lo, 4T3T, 4S
https://instagram.com/p/B3Ce3RGJTen/