New ISU rule changes: "Flutzing" addressed

[Coach]

What positions will get you to a level 4 spiral sequence? Has anyone come-up with suggestions?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Unlike the fans, the players have the maturity to know that sometimes the call goes your way, sometimes it goes against you. You don't see the players rushing to the Internet to moan about being robbed by a bad call. (They leave that to the fans, LOL.)

Sorry but I disagree. I often see players and fans rush on the field if they think there is a problem with the umpire. I don't see it in Figure Skating which is a carefully mannered sport to avoid rushing on the ice. There is a difference. Only in SLC did I see what you do not like to see. Unfortunately, that took its toll on patronage because Figure Skating did not know how to handle it.

Some fans are totally obedient in life and sport (the Power has spoken). Others are skeptical. (let's change that for more honesty) That's sport! The reluctants v. the doers.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

What positions will get you to a level 4 spiral sequence? Has anyone come-up with suggestions?

Well the document mathman quote earlier in one of his posts sets out all of the level features for all elements, it says this about spiral sequences (bear in mind level two requires 2 of the features, level three requires 3 and level four requires 4:

1) 3 Sprial pos. with change of foot (mandatory for SP), forward and backwards, inside and outside
2) 1 Difficult variation of position
3) Second difficult variation on a different foot than the first one
4) Change of edge in a sprial (3 seconds hold before and after the change)
5) Unsupported change of free leg position or direction of skating maintaining te spiral (3 seconds hold before and after the change)
6) Free leg in total split position, one or both arms hold possible

But bear in mind that the new rules state that spirals not on a an edge will not count, if all spiral positions are arm/hand assisted then the sprial sequence can only achieve a level 1 and that only the first three spiral positions will count when assessing the level features.

I guess all coaches and choreographers are going to have to think carefully about constructing sprial sequences for the upcoming season.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Sorry but I disagree. I often see players and fans rush on the field if they think there is a problem with the umpire. I don't see it in Figure Skating which is a carefully mannered sport to avoid rushing on the ice. There is a difference.

That's only because without spiked shoes or skates you have no way of manouvering if you were to reach the ice - look at security in Dortmund when the guy jumped on the ice before Kwan skated!

But in all seriousness - i've never been to a COP competition - do fans in the arena get to see the protocols when the skaters marks come up? I didn't think that the information regarding the levels the elements received and what the jumps were called and theh GOEs were only available to people with press credentials. If the fans in the arena do not know that the judge downgraded Lambiel's 3A to a double, how do they know to pile onto the ice and start a fight?!

Only in SLC did I see what you do not like to see. Unfortunately, that took its toll on patronage because Figure Skating did not know how to handle it.

I can't say that I liked seeing what happened in SLC - i thought it was a very bad situation that was hadnled badly by everyone, especially the media. Demonizing Elena&Anton for something that was the judges fault not their's was disgusting and the amount of people that jumped on that badnwagon made it worse. I was extremely pleased that the cheating was made known and agree that the double award of the gold medals was the only real way out of that particular situation but i did not like what it did to the sport namely: made everyone think that the sport is crooked all the way through and that it allowed $peedy to push through this new judging system with added annonimity to prevent him ever being caught on the back foot again.

Some fans are totally obedient in life and sport (the Power has spoken). Others are skeptical. (let's change that for more honesty) That's sport! The reluctants v. the doers.

Joe

I'm not sure its quite that black and white and all fans fall into one or the other. In any event i think Mathman just likes to see what the numerous pages of rules say about the sport since that is exactly what judges, coaches, skaters and choregorahpers have to do. Whether you agree with and support the rules is a whole different angle than figuring out what the rules actually are. I would say that it is very difficult to critique the rules with anything other than emotional reaction, if you don't have a handle on what the rules actually say in the first place.

I think its good to hear what the COP according to fan X and fan Y is - people always have opinions on how it should be. I think Mathman is one of the best people for ferreting out what the rules actually are.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

But in all seriousness - i've never been to a COP competition - do fans in the arena get to see the protocols when the skaters marks come up? I didn't think that the information regarding the levels the elements received and what the jumps were called and theh GOEs were only available to people with press credentials. If the fans in the arena do not know that the judge downgraded Lambiel's 3A to a double, how do they know to pile onto the ice and start a fight?!

Sometime, they post the results. Otherwise we in the audience are free of commentators and, of course, argue among our selves. There is always someone near to say, 'it's been downgraded. In the case of Lambiel, where I was sitting, it was a clean landing. When I heard about the downgrade, I was livid but he won anyway.

I can't say that I liked seeing what happened in SLC - i thought it was a very bad situation that was hadnled badly by everyone, especially the media. Demonizing Elena&Anton for something that was the judges fault not their's was disgusting and the amount of people that jumped on that badnwagon made it worse. I was extremely pleased that the cheating was made known and agree that the double award of the gold medals was the only real way out of that particular situation but i did not like what it did to the sport namely: made everyone think that the sport is crooked all the way through and that it allowed $peedy to push through this new judging system with added annonimity to prevent him ever being caught on the back foot again.

No one was happy about that story of events. The resulting enquiry led by Speedy brought about the 2 medals to placate the OIC and Stop the Investigation. We only know that the collusion was in part by France and no one else except by speculation, BTW, I think what happened in SLC was more than a bad situation. It has, for me, turned people off figure skating.

I'm not sure its quite that black and white and all fans fall into one or the other. In any event i think Mathman just likes to see what the numerous pages of rules say about the sport since that is exactly what judges, coaches, skaters and choregorahpers have to do. Whether you agree with and support the rules is a whole different angle than figuring out what the rules actually are. I would say that it is very difficult to critique the rules with anything other than emotional reaction, if you don't have a handle on what the rules actually say in the first place.

There's no intent on putting down MM, He knows that. I appreciate his statistical collection of the results of these competitions. They always make me pause on what I originally thought. It's very true that I critique the rules and there are some changes that come, not from me alone, but many others. We are just not brought up to agree with the hierarchy. Case in point is the all-the-way-down sitspin. Going partially down and twisting your body, to me, is much easier than going all the way down and moreso all the way up. However, MM is correct in that the GoEs give the contorted body more points, but that just doesn't change my way of thinking. Sorry about that as per your next paragraph.

I think its good to hear what the COP according to fan X and fan Y is - people always have opinions on how it should be. I think Mathman is one of the best people for ferreting out what the rules actually are. Ant

Not just the opinions but the facts which are the real thing. You know as I do that certain posters hold fast to their opinions and you are not surprised at their posts.

Joe