New Johnny Weir Interview

[momjudi]

Yes, it's my opinion that Marina was and is not ready to choreograph for an elite singles skater and the reasoning is the poor choice of jump placements. And, Johnny went ahead and planned these programs WITHOUT consulting Priscilla Hill. She was quoted in Blades On Ice as saying that Johnny went ahead and did his new programs without any imput from her and that Johnny does what he wants. Johnny was also quoted as saying he only had his first full run through with long program the day before he skated it at Skate Canada. So, it seems a combination of poor programs, lack of training time and perhaps personal issues caused a delay in what was suppose to be the start of the Weir dynasty.

 

[Eeyora]

I also think the SP this year is quite good but the long is just not him, As for las years long it looked very thrown together. Didn't he have a number choreographed over the summer 05 but ditched it in fear of other skaters copying him.

 

[Ausrick]

Ausrick. I have no idea what is bugging Johnny...He just has to pull himself together. Hopefully he will.

Thanks for the reply Joe, and I apologise if I came across as being rude to you. It's just this ' has personal problems' thing presses a few buttons with me Everyone I know has personal problems of some sort or another, that's life. I just thought you knew something more specific, that's all. But yes, bottom line is that whatever is going on 'he just has to pull himself together' or get out of the game, and like you, I hope he will get it together.

It's just speculation

Johnny Weir, the most 'speculated-about' skater ever

 

[Ausrick]

Johnny went ahead and planned these programs WITHOUT consulting Priscilla Hill. She was quoted in Blades On Ice as saying that Johnny went ahead and did his new programs without any input from her and that Johnny does what he wants..

Now, that really surprised me, given the length and closeness of their relationship ! The 'Johnny does what Johnny wants' attitude may explain a lot.

So, it seems a combination of poor programs, lack of training time and perhaps personal issues caused a delay in what was suppose to be the start of the Weir dynasty.

Yes, I agree with that as I agree with all of your undeniably knowledgeable comments on the life and times of JW

 

[antmanb]

Yes, it's my opinion that Marina was and is not ready to choreograph for an elite singles skater and the reasoning is the poor choice of jump placements. And, Johnny went ahead and planned these programs WITHOUT consulting Priscilla Hill. She was quoted in Blades On Ice as saying that Johnny went ahead and did his new programs without any imput from her and that Johnny does what he wants. Johnny was also quoted as saying he only had his first full run through with long program the day before he skated it at Skate Canada. So, it seems a combination of poor programs, lack of training time and perhaps personal issues caused a delay in what was suppose to be the start of the Weir dynasty.

Well he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Olympic season TT choeographed a program for him that he said he never felt comfortable with and that he found boring even though it was challenging and different from his previous seasons progam, so he went back to tried and true Otonal. Some people criticsed him for not sticking to the original program and growing as a skater.

This season he takes a chance (based on time since he couldn't get to TT in time and it made sense to work with Marina) and gets two new programs with a new style and he decides that this season he will stick with his planned programs come hell or high water and will see them through to the end of the season to prove that he is willing to try different styles and doesn't just bale out and pull out an old program to stay within his comfort zone. And some people criticize his decision.

I don't think the critics are the same people in both examples (some might be just because they dislike Johnny). Personally i prefer his style with TT choreographing for him and i haven't been too keen on these new Marina programs (though i think they have been getting better and i look forward to seeing them at worlds). The main thing though is that in this season (the most unimportant of seasons if your goal is the next Olympics) he has tried a new style, he's stuck with programs even though they might not be working as well as an older program might and has proved to himself that whatever happens he can tough out a difficult season. I hope that pulls off a medla at worlds to sweeten this season a little bit for him. And i hope that he takes everythig he's learnt this season and works with TT over the summer to produce two masterpieces that outshine even his swan SP from last season.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I can't believe Johnny doesn't know how he is slipping away from his best. Whatever reasons he is not skating up to expectations, I don't think we should rush to blame his coach or choreographer as if he himself is incapable of taking charge of his life. Johnny is over 20 now and certainly has gained a sense of maturity with regard to competing in figure skating events.

It's not his jumps or spins that need attention. Who doesn't have a trouble landing quads consistently? It's not his flow over the ice, his staturesque posture, his speed.

If it's choreography that is troubling him, that could be simplified. (I believe he did not rehearse this choreo much.). Another demanding choreographer is David Wilson, and one can just see how much the original choreography was changed by Emily in order to make her triples.

I am certain, by this time, that Johnny has revamped his routine and has rehearsed his routine sufficiently in preparation for Tokyo. I speculate that he will skate a flawless routine at worlds. He may not win, or even podium, but he will
get the crowd on their feet and his fans should be satisfied that the dark days are over.

Joe

 

[Grgranny]

Sure hope you're right, Joe.

 

[Hsuhs]

Amen.

 

[jennylovskt]

I can't believe Johnny doesn't know how he is slipping away from his best. Whatever reasons he is not skating up to expectations, I don't think we should rush to blame his coach or choreographer as if he himself is incapable of taking charge of his life. Johnny is over 20 now and certainly has gained a sense of maturity with regard to competing in figure skating events.

I agree. Johnny himself should know it as well if the placement of the jumps was not right. I don't believe that Johnny didn't have any inputs in the choreography and listened everything that Marina said.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Maybe Weir still fails to understand how to use CoP for artistic performances? I mean the way e.g. Buttle (and his choreographer) do.

Exactly. There have been great artistic programs under CoP in just the last five seasons, choreographed by Wilson, Dickson, Browning, Linichuk,Tarasova, Morozov, Petukhov, Zhulin, Moskvina (for B/C), Steuer, Spilband, Zoueva, Dean, Karahawa, whoever of "M. Colberg, H. Wiesinger, A. Kapranova" choreographed Othman's LP this year, Bruenner (now Guadarrama), and Nichol that are the equal to any triple/quad-era programs under 6.0.

In addition, when Tarasova choreographed Weir's programs last season, he took the advice of the USFS review panel that decided his elements weren't difficult enough, and he changed them. (I don't know who was on the panel, but, on the whole, USFS was behind the curve in learning the system.) As I wrote last year, if had done all of the jump elements he's allowed, instead of leaving out combinations and jumps, he could have done the allegedly L2 spins and footwork and have retained the same base score. And under 6.0, had he done 7 instead of 8 jumping passes, it is highly unlikely that he would have made the podium, especially without a quad. When he could do his "easier" spins and more "artistic" footwork under 6.0, in Dortmund, for example, he still didn't do all 8 jumping passes. (All of the men on the podium landed quads, and so did 4th place Lambiel.) If CoP hadn't made it worth doing a 3/3 in the SP instead of the quad, had his competition attempted and landed the quad or quad combo in the SP in Torino, it is highly unlikely that he would have been second after the SP. It's not CoP that is sinking him: it plays to his strengths -- at least until this year, he had pristine jumping technique -- and levels most of his weaknesses.

All of the top coaches in Russia have complained about CoP. I'm not surprised he's on that bandwagon.

 

[emma]

Hockeyfan - I totally agre with this post but don't remember your analysis of how he could do lower level spins and footwork and and max out jumps and still get same base value. I do, however, like that that is true - this is the part of COP i like, that you can play around to your strengths.

But - this brings me back to my fear about Weir - he doesn't have the right training to bring on all the jumps. Again, I'm totally speculating - but this has been my fear since last year. When he didn't add jumps (especially the quad, but also combos) during the grand prix events I just thought, that's it, he is plateuing instead of excelling or moving forward. I, like many, thought the Swan was brilliant - but i too agree that he was also lucky that he didn't need a quad in the short. I do so hope to see Weir bring it on with these jumps and maintain his lovely line, run out, graceful style - and personally, i would love to see the swan revisted with a quad combo for the next Olympics...

 

[hockeyfan228]

Hockeyfan - I totally agre with this post but don't remember your analysis of how he could do lower level spins and footwork and and max out jumps and still get same base value. I do, however, like that that is true - this is the part of COP i like, that you can play around to your strengths.

Essentially that if he did all 8 jumping passes (adding a 3T would give 4 points, 4.4 at the end of a program) and all three combinations, including a 3/2/2 (each 2T adds 1.3, each 2R adds 1.5) instead of 7 jumping passes and one or two combinations, that would add between 5 and 8.5 points to base. The difference between L2 and and L4 spin is between .5-1.1 points per spin, depending on the type (mixing types would lose on average 4 points), with a 1.1 difference between L2 and L4 for step sequences (all types), which would lose another 2.2 for both. By adding the easiest jumps to his program, he'd gain the 6.2 points he'd lose by having L2's across the board. And since he never had L4's across the board, he'd actually lose closer to 4 points, while gaining more than that in jumps.

It seems to me that if he maxxed out his jumps in 2005, even without the quad, he could have done the rest of Tarasova's program as choreographed and have been, at worst, break even on base score. And who knows if what the USFS experts called would have been what the ISU callers would have called on the elements? However, under 6.0, he didn't do all of the jumping passes and/or combinations to which he was entitled, which kept him off the podium then.

 

[Ausrick]

Essentially that if he did all 8 jumping passes (adding a 3T would give 4 points, 4.4 at the end of a program) and all three combinations, including a 3/2/2 (each 2T adds 1.3, each 2R adds 1.5) instead of 7 jumping passes and one or two combinations, that would add between 5 and 8.5 points to base. The difference between L2 and and L4 spin is between .5-1.1 points per spin, depending on the type (mixing types would lose on average 4 points), with a 1.1 difference between L2 and L4 for step sequences (all types), which would lose another 2.2 for both. By adding the easiest jumps to his program, he'd gain the 6.2 points he'd lose by having L2's across the board. And since he never had L4's across the board, he'd actually lose closer to 4 points, while gaining more than that in jumps.

I just love this 'sport', as much for the commentators and analysts as for the performances themselves. I have only a vague clue as to what the above was all about, but I'm impressed nonetheless.

 

[emma]

thanks hockeyfan!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Thanks Hockeyfan. My trouble with this and given Johnny's attitude toward the CoP is that he just skates and can not be bothered with studying the CoP. Maybe he should change that attitude. I'm kind of sure Priscilla is aware of the point system.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

On the other hand, sometimes I think a skater would be better off just to go out there and skate. It doesn't matter how many points a triple flip is worth if you fall in the attempt.

What profiteth a man to gain three-tenths of a CoP point for an extra contortion tacked onto his combination spin, but lose his skating soul?

 

[Jaana]

My trouble with this and given Johnny's attitude toward the CoP is that he just skates and can not be bothered with studying the CoP. Maybe he should change that attitude. I'm kind of sure Priscilla is aware of the point system.

Joe

Yes, Weir´s attitude towards CoP does not help him at all. Some studying would benefit him in situations as he misses some jump, what to add to get some additional points during the rest of the programme, etc. A skater really needs to use his brain.

Generally I would say that it definetely is the job of the coach and choreographer to fully understand everything in CoP and the job of the skater is to skate. In previous season I was surprised that Weir´s people apparently didn´t, because otherwise he would not have needed to change his programme again and again. But, as I already mentioned above, also Weir must understand something about CoP to be able to use it for his advantage when competing.

 

[temperboy28]

If CoP hadn't made it worth doing a 3/3 in the SP instead of the quad, had his competition attempted and landed the quad or quad combo in the SP in Torino, it is highly unlikely that he would have been second after the SP. It's not CoP that is sinking him: it plays to his strengths -- at least until this year, he had pristine jumping technique -- and levels most of his weaknesses.

Weir ending up 2nd in the short program in Torino should be seen as sign of nothing. He ended up 2nd since he was the only contender other then Plushenko to do a clean short, 2 out of 8 contenders do clean shorts and he ends up 2nd of the 2, 10 points behind the only other one to do one. Big deal. Lambiel doubled his triple axel, two footed the triple toe of his quad toe-triple toe combo which he often gets +1 or more in GOE on, and wobbled in the middle of his final spin. He still finished only 1 point behind Weir in the short, without these errors he would have been 5 or 6 points in front. Joubert put his hand down in the middle of his quad combo and had to double the second jump. Buttle fell on his triple axel and put his hand down on the triple lutz. Lysacek blew 2 of his 3 jumps completely. Sandhu and Takahashi did not do clean performances, I dont remember the details like the others but were definitely not clean.

On top of all the things I said above, the judges also liked Weir ALOT more then they do now. At U.S Nationals recently he lost to Lysacek in the short even with both doing clean shorts with the same jumps, and lost the PCS to Evan too. His score at U.S Nationals was also a couple points lower then the Olympics last year, which is a scary sign for him since scoring at Nationals is always grossly inflated so drop that projected score more if it were an international event.

 

[antmanb]

What profiteth a man to gain three-tenths of a CoP point for an extra contortion tacked onto his combination spin, but lose his skating soul?

If i knew how i'd make this my sig! 10 across the PCS marks for this comment MM!

Ant

 

[slutskayafan21]

Johnny has a long way, and I do really mean a long way to go, before becoming a serious medal contender again, if he ever regains that status with the youth at the top right now. He is not the young one anymore. Joubert is his age, Lambiel and Lysacek 1 year younger, Takahashi 2 years younger, Oda 3 years younger, and other young ones will be rising to prominence as seniors before the quadrennial is up. Only Buttle of the leading contenders is older then he.

He has lost stature with the judges, lost ground to his rivals, and Evan has replaced him as the golden boy of U.S skating. Skating clean performances, and doing more COP-friendly programs that squeeze out every possible point, plus doing a quad, merely covers the bare minimum he needs to have any chance at this point, and that is already a big step forward from where he is now.