New short a ‘release’ for Duhamel & Radford

[MaxSwagg]

Well if anyone is suggesting that other teams are getting hurt because of what D&R are doing - what about all the leg and back injuries because of trying quads? Why is it different? In this sport there are always going to be those who are technically more advanced then others and are going to try to reach new goals. Not sure why that's a negative.

Because it is a negative when the team is pushing the technical boundary while not doing a thing about artistry (i.e., the components). That is why it is negative. They would love nothing more than for jumps to get a higher base value (they shouldn't). Of course, many of the judges are at fault for this because why substantively work (or work at all) on improving the artistic side of your skating, the skating skills, etc. when you're already getting unwarranted marks. There would be no issue if this weren't the case.

Also, FYI: she will get tired before I do, you can be sure of that.

 

[noskates]

It's still not that different from the men's competition. The men are pushing the technical boundary and their skating skills and performance are not always keeping up. It's the nature of the sport these days. But I, for at least one, am getting so tired of folks who blame the judges. The whole scene runs rampant throught he skating world and it appears that most judging panels are judging along the same lines. Majority rules?

Who is going to get tired?

 

[MaxSwagg]

It's still not that different from the men's competition. The men are pushing the technical boundary and their skating skills and performance are not always keeping up. It's the nature of the sport these days. But I, for at least one, am getting so tired of folks who blame the judges. The whole scene runs rampant throught he skating world and it appears that most judging panels are judging along the same lines. Majority rules?

Who is going to get tired?

What men?! Maybe Boyang, but at least he is actively working on the second marks. The same can't be said for Duhamel. Poor thing. So who's to blame? She or the judges? Probably both.

 

[4everchan]

I know it would be torture for you but go back from 2012 or so, and watch all their SPs and LPs and you will see a tremendous improvement in PCS. The judges saw it.... I saw it... why can't you?

What men?! Maybe Boyang, but at least he is actively working on the second marks. The same can't be said for Duhamel. Poor thing. So who's to blame? She or the judges? Probably both.

 

[noskates]

I think there are many more men than Boyang pushing the envelope and just as many walking or hobbling around with injuries because of that. And there are many men and some women who can jump beautifully but can't deliver a consistent, pleasing, entertaining (except for their ubers) performance.

So I guess unless you figure out some way to totally revamp and revise the judging system.....nothing is going to change.

 

[Mango]

You cannot blame one skater for the actions of another. If one pair has not mastered a throw technique but decides to try it out and gets injured, that is their fault and their problem. It doesn't matter if their friends are doing it and not getting hurt. You took the risk, you take the reward or the injury. Neither Nathan Chen nor Jason Brown can go up to Boyang Jin or Shoma Uno and say, "Hey look what you did to us! We got injured and missed all these important international assignments because you guys brought all these new quads."

In this vein, who should Kirsten Moore-Towers get mad at for her horrific fall while attempting a triple twist? The inventors of the triple twist, the pairs who popularized it, or Michael Marinaro? In the end, it was no one. She got up and kept skating and even competed at Worlds. Because pairs' skaters are made of tough stuff.

Kind of ridiculous to see this blame game being played.

I'm excited to see what Meagan and Eric bring with these two program. They are going to be a new challenge. I hope someone tells us how it goes at high performance camp. The whole wait and see approach is similar to the one they took last season, which I think is good. It's probably also more interesting to keep evolving and improving your program as the season progresses in response to what else is being put on the ice. They'll get to see Sui/Han's performances before they skate at Skate Canada, but will have to wait for Savchenko/Massot. I wonder if they are disappointed that Tatiana and Maxim aren't going to be on the GP. Grand Prix Final won't be as exciting, I guess.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Because it is a negative when the team is pushing the technical boundary while not doing a thing about artistry (i.e., the components). That is why it is negative

They are though, And they have,

And weird argument to make considering we haven't seen the programs yet

Also, FYI: she will get tired before I do, you can be sure of that.

I don't get it, Why are you making this about you ?

 

[4everchan]

you know... i was just thinking about Séguin and Bilodeau and I am so thrilled that they already have a hard throw 3Lz and also they are adding the SBS 3Lo this year...

I had NEVER seen SBS 3Lo and it perhaps is the first time it's done.... I know Julianne had all her triples (except 3A) as she competed until recently in singles, no idea about Bilodeau.... but yeah.... so this is the kind of fun stuff that happens when a team like Duhamel and Radford ups the ante.... other teams look at the code of points and think, what could we do? Teams who can throw bigger will do that, teams who can twist quads will do that, and teams who can jump better will do that.... it's pretty exciting to see new elements and honestly, the SBS 3Lo is really cool to watch !!!!! the SBS 3Lz is impressive and scary with the reach on the outside edge but the 3Lo has this POP!!!!

So THANK you D/R for bringing the bar as high as you can and taking with you other teams to new horizons...

 

[QuadThrow]

S/M also have a triple flip. Don't know why they would drop that and keep the salchow.

I expect them to go for the salchow because they have already practiced the 4STh last year. The flip was not as consistent as with robin. She double footed it usually.

 

[MaxSwagg]

I know it would be torture for you but go back from 2012 or so, and watch all their SPs and LPs and you will see a tremendous improvement in PCS. The judges saw it.... I saw it... why can't you?

I did see it. I wouldn't say tremendous. Not any where near tremendous. Small but some improvements. Not reflective of the components they're getting though. From 2012 I thought they were making good progress. Since 2014 season they have remained static and even regressed in some aspects. The lift positions could still be better (average at best currently...ugly. Ugly legs.), her skating skills...there is just no hope there, really. So much two-footed and unidirectional skating. Even the jumps and throws they do execute shouldn't be getting more than +1. Her complete lack of any interpretation is the most glaring; she's just given up on that. So no.

As in many instances as of late, the marks don't reflect what is actually being done. What's horrific is that it's much more detrimental to this discipline. With the exception of a few pairs, it is in such a state it's almost unwatchable. Example: I recently saw someone comment that Seguin and Bilodeau were like G&G. That is an embarrassing statement to make and frankly insulting to their legacy.

 

[4everchan]

I did see it. I wouldn't say tremendous. Not any where near tremendous. Small but some improvements. Not reflective of the components they're getting though. From 2012 I thought they were making good progress. Since 2014 season they have remained static and even regressed in some aspects. The lift positions could still be better (average at best currently...ugly. Ugly legs.), her skating skills...there is just no hope there, really. So much two-footed and unidirectional skating. Even the jumps and throws they do execute shouldn't be getting more than +1. Her complete lack of any interpretation is the most glaring; she's just given up on that. So no.

As in many instances as of late, the marks don't reflect what is actually being done. What's horrific is that it's much more detrimental to this discipline. With the exception of a few pairs, it is in such a state it's almost unwatchable. Example: I recently saw someone comment that Seguin and Bilodeau were like G&G. That is an embarrassing statement to make and frankly insulting to their legacy.

In your opinion. please do not talk as if you own the truth... as you can see in this thread, you are a minority voice... and saying that we are all wrong is pretty harsh and definitely not true.

I personally think they have improved a lot.

I think they are great leaders for the sport of pairs which was getting so dull.... now many teams are trying different things....

as for Julianne, she's so cute, bubbly, young and joyful, compared to all the royalty of power ladies in pairs with their very stoic and regal looks, that she is pretty much the closest to match Katya's youthful charisma. No need to put so much weight on such a comment.... she brings something fresh, that's all!

 

[4everchan]

So how many of you think it's pretty cool for a program to use Seal's Killer?

I have always liked the song so I am so curious to see skating on it... but yeah... i have a hard imagining it yet. Excited !

 

[Mista Ekko]

So how many of you think it's pretty cool for a program to use Seal's Killer?

I have always liked the song so I am so curious to see skating on it... but yeah... i have a hard imagining it yet. Excited !

They're definitely not playing it safe

With a track like "Killer" it's gonna be a lot about timing, if they nail that they could have a big moment

 

[Alvyne]

I know everyone wants to see how "Killer" comes out cause it's different,
But from reading how Julie talks about the FS music it actually makes me more excited to see that one

I'm excited to see this one as well. It's classic song and I'm glad they are using the Patricia Kaas version and not Edith Piaf's, sounds more modern. The lyrics have a lot of meaning (Je ne regrette rien - I don't have any regrets).

 

[sarama]

I think that despite the difficulty increase, this quad the programs are way more interesting and pleasurable to watch than last quad. Then only Savchenko/Szolkowy, sometimes Pang/Tong and very few other had programs with some choreographic value. V/T relied for their PCS just on SS quality of elements and chemistry, but their programs were just generic and uninspired (minus maybe Masquerade waltz). So I really don't think pushing the technical side is hurting the PCS. Meagan and Eric used to be even worse on PCS, while other teams who can't compete with them on BV have definitely stepped up on everything else, the most glaring example is Stolbova/Klinov who definitely made a big improvement in polish and quality of their programs. If people like to watch pair skater gaze longingly into each other eyes I believe a romantic comedy would be a more suitable way to spend time.

 

[lauravvv]

This upcoming season seems to be amazing!

D/R and S/M are both planning the 3ATh in the SP!

I expect the top pairs to try these elements in the FP:

D/R 3Tw3, 3Lz, 3T+2T+2T, 3ATh, 4STh
S/M 4Tw4, 3T, 3S+1Lo+3S, 3ATh, 3STh
S/H 4Tw3, 3T+2T+2T, 3S, 3LzTh, 4STh

The Russian pair are getting into problems.

Mozer said that Stolbova/Klimov are planning to go for a quad throw this season again. And I expect that they will continue doing the 3t-3t-2t now that they are healthy.

 

[Mathman]

What men?! Maybe Boyang, but at least he is actively working on the second marks.

The men's discipline faces a quandary, though. Boyang Jin aside, score inflation has raised the PCS for the top men almost to the ceiling. The only way remaining for one guy to out-point another is to do more quads.

 

[LRK]

Well, there was a short clip of the new Killer SP on the program thread - and I really liked the look of that, so I'm really looking forward to seeing it in its entirety.

I actually think the pairs field is quite diverse at the moment, with different styles & personalities, and new, younger teams alongside the veterans. I think there should be something for everyone to enjoy.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Well, there was a short clip of the new Killer SP on the program thread - and I really liked the look of that, so I'm really looking forward to seeing it in its entirety.

I actually think the pairs field is quite diverse at the moment, with different styles & personalities, and new, younger teams alongside the veterans. I think there should be something for everyone to enjoy.

Exactly. The balletic line and style isn't the only one.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I haven't liked Pairs since IJS was implemented. I felt that discipline was the one that had some real growing pains in adapting to the code and recapturing the magic that made pairs skating so beautiful and distinct from the other disciplines. The last time I really looked forward to pairs skating was when Shen/Zhao came back to compete in the 2009-2010 season because they skated "old school" while doing what IJS was requiring of them. I never got into Savchenko/Szolkowy because even though I respected all of their difficult choreography, their inconsistency always took me out of their performances and I never got into their ability to interpret the music nor did I think the choreography was very coherent to the music. I found Volosozhar/Trankov very cookie cutter since I felt their skating was more about excellent execution of elements and that was it. There wasn't anything more for me as all the pairs seemed to be boringly doing their codified elements with little attention to the character of the choreography. I couldn't get into pairs as a whole for a while. I know people love Moskvina and Kavaguti/Smirnoff, but there's something really off-putting about how Yuko executes her lifts (so gangly like a rag doll) and I can't help but still think they're mis-matched. I also think when Moskvina isn't kept in check, her choreography gets really over-indulgent and nonsensical. I don't even like the Peter Tschernshev-choreographed Manfred Symphony that is supposedly considered to be one of the greatest pairs routines of all time by many.

I felt like it was always going to be that way and didn't make much effort to watch pairs after Sochi, and I honestly didn't pay that much attention to it beforehand compared to the way I devoured Men, Ladies (more out of habit though I respect the ladies for hitting in Sochi), and Ice Dance. I wasn't really feeling the 2011-2014 quad overall honestly, but that's a separate topic.

Then, something happened. As I was watching the 2015-2016 GPF, I caught the SP of Seguin/Bilodeau and I was utterly amazed by them. To me, they had that magic I felt pairs was missing for a long time. It was the first time I was truly excited about a pairs team since Shen/Zhao. Then I caught Stolbova/Klimov's LP and fell in love, which surprised me because I didn't like them much in Sochi. Then I saw Sui/Han's 4CC SP and honestly felt privileged to witness that and wondered what I did to deserve seeing something so perfectly on. I even liked Volosozhar/Trankov's Bollywood SP at Euros and it made me excited to see what new direction they'll take their skating in now that they already secured an OGM. I was excited at the prospect of becoming a V/T fan like so many others have already become. I always felt bad for not being on that bandwagon because I knew they had what I technically appreciated in all the past Russian pairs and didn't understand why I didn't get them before hand. Then I saw Savchenko/Massot's SP and LP and other than being in awe of that triple twist (two-footed or not), I actually found myself really like that pair and feeling something I never felt with Savchenko/Szolkowy and their Ingo choreography despite them obviously still being in the developmental stage.

I also realized by opening myself up to watching pairs again, I was better able to appreciate just how far pairs skating has gone in actually executing the IJS-variations of elements. The hands over the head in the twists, all the new throws and jumps, the spins, etc. I feel like pair skaters have finally caught up with the code and can now focus on selling the program and not just executing the elements. This is where my long-winded post relates to Duhamel/Radford. I can't find it in myself to dislike this team at all. I know they're messy, need to work on their unison, she talks during performances, etc. However, they really push the sport and I appreciate how hard they work to maximize their points. I also can't hate a team for delivering time and time again and showing that they want it so much. I also think because there are so many great pairs that I'm falling in love with who bring out the traditional things I love about pairs skating, then I'm "allowed" to appreciate Duhamel/Radford for what they bring to pairs skating and cannot fault them for taking advantage of messy performances and being the ones to be chased. I think pairs skating is richer for teams like them pushing the envelope and providing a different flavor.