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New Survivor Show

Erica Lee :), I will try to frame a response to your thoughtful post. (OT -- Are you the web master of Meno-Sand.net? :rock: )

OT response - Yes indeed, I am. Admittedly there has been no action there as of late, but I do try! It was my first of many skating based web endeavors, so it does hold a dear spot in my heart.
 
The main thing I like about Survivor is that I personally find it to be a fascinating study in human dynamics; I don't care about the plotting and the strategies and all that stuff, I just become highly interested in the interractions of 16 strangers thrown together and how they end up getting along (or not). I think this coming edition is going to potentially add a fascinating twist to this; however, they're gonna have to tread very very carefully with this one or they're gonna tick off a LOT of people. But I basically agree with Red Dog -- let's wait for it to air first and see how things play out. I can understand the basic concept being construed as offensive -- but on the other hand, consider this: First of all, after all these editions, they are seriously running out twists, or gimmicks, or whatever you want to call them, so they'd probably have gotten around to this eventually. Secondly -- the average Survivor has, what, maybe 3,4 "non-white" people on it? There will certainly be MUCH higher "minority representation" on this edition than on others, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
Here's the latest protest from a NYC official

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060825/D8JN5GH01.html

Does he not understand that the competition has already been taped and edited and just awaiting air time?

BTW, I also want to point out that I did say that I felt the concept would only be agreeable if they merged the teams after a couple of episodes, as they did last season. I do not think it would be a good idea to continue as is through the merge.

Also, it's possible that these images may break some people's steretypes.
 
They will most likely merge quick because if any tribe goes to trible councle more than once that would leave them with 2 players.
Heard (in chat rooms) that some stations are not going to air the show due to the format.
I see it like this if you don't want to watch turn it off.
 
Does anyone remember the big brouhaha over this show -- I think it was going to be on ABC last season -- where they had various couples of various types from all walks of life competing to see who was going to win and move into this house in this one neighborhood; the winners were to be determined by the people who already lived in the neighborhood. Before this show even aired, there was such controversy about potential stereotypes and potential discrimination and potential this and potential that, that ABC never aired it. PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY GOT TO SEE IT said that actually, it was an extremely insightful, potentially educational, series but it became too much of a "hot potato" due to the theme and the format. This may turn out to be along the same line, tho at least Survivor has enough clout (at this point) to actually be aired by most stations. As Jhar55 says, if you're offended by the concept, don't watch it. And I think judgement should be reserved until at least a few episodes have aired.

However, I will say this. Having read a bit more about this new edition, I am a bit taken aback by a quote (I think by Jeff Probst) stating how it was due to the criticism Survivor has always had about "lack of minority representation" that the idea for this edition evolved, and I will say that I do find that a bit on the offensive side. What, they couldn't bump up the "minority representation" without some sort of gimmick???? Let's say they took these same 20 people and just split them into 2 tribes like they always do; no advance publicity about ethnic backgrounds, no fanfare, no whatever -- I'm willing to bet that a quite large percentage of the viewing audience would not have really noticed (until it was pointed out to them by TV critics who feel compelled to be politically correct) that the show was not as "white" as usual. I have to wonder if perhaps CBS is trying this in order to bump up the Black, Asian, and Hispanic viewership of this show, hoping that people of these races will tune in and "root for their own", so to speak. If that's what they had in mind, it seems to be backfiring already.

And just as a sidebar that occured to me as I was typing this -- there might actually be more Asian people on this one edition of Survivor than there is on the rest of primetime network TV combined.
 
My complaint is that not all segemnts of society are represented.

They should add four more teams, the Arabs against the Jews and the Aryan Nations against the African Separatists.

Also, what about Choice versus Life to really get the ball rolling?
 
My complaint is that not all segemnts of society are represented.

They should add four more teams, the Arabs against the Jews and the Aryan Nations against the African Separatists.

Also, what about Choice versus Life to really get the ball rolling?


You forgot Atheists. According to Morgan Spurlock (who made Super Size Me and produces the series 30 days) in the atheist living with Christians show, atheists are considered less trustworthy than Muslims - even post 9/11.

They could also do rich vs poor. Geeks vs athlets.
 
Actually, I think the "geeks vs. athletes" would be a REALLY good idea. They'd have to tone down some of those "Death Match 2006" challenges in order to even the field, but that could be REALLY interesting....
 
To me, the problem is that race is unremittingly divisive in U.S. history and culture.

Boys versus girls, camp counselors versus kids, geeks versus athletes, the Yankees versus the Red Sox -- that's fun, funny and entertaining.

The reason why, IMHO, is that each side basically likes and respects the other, or at the least appreciates what the other side brings to the table. The counselors and the kids each realize that without the other there would be no camp.

Dividing us by race is another matter altogether. Humans are tribal animals. We do not like other races and we do not celebrate the contributions of people from other cultures than our own. Mostly, we wish that everyone except "us" would go back where they came from.

We can laugh at ourselves when Survivor divides us into the ficticious Kowabanga Tribe against the equally silly Lackanookie Tribe. To me, it's not so funny when it strikes closer to home.
 
Mathman, I think you've hit upon a sorry reality. For a large percentage of the population, you're spot on.

For all the screams of "equality" in the world, though, as you point out - that wouldn't actually be the issue... If we really all hate (and I'm generalizing here for the sake of discussion, I know it's not always true) races besides our own, is society just putting up a 'front' when they are out fighting for rights? And if we really did hate each other, why would we be up in arms about a competitive environment that puts us up against each other.

Putting aside the bigger philosophical issues at hand, I think the only reason people are so up in arms about the survivor tribes is that it's ingrained in us to be so hyper-sensitive when it comes to anything involving race, especially anything involving categorizing and labelling race. It's led to bad things in the past.. too many to list. Another thing, too, is that even though I am not playing survivor, I am "white" - as opposed to other seasons where I'm definitely not inherently part of tribe "insert silly name here". If people are projecting themselves into the game atmosphere, and tensions already exist between groups that have the potential to be magnified, then I can see how that's an issue, too.

Putting the philosophical hat back on - I ask myself... why couldn't society get to a point where "each side basically likes and respects the other, or at the least appreciates what the other side brings to the table"? I thought that's what we're all striving for to begin with. Then again, if this were true 100% of the time - then no one would be out fighting wars right now.... so I know it's a lofty goal. But where better to start then inside one's own country... this people on Survivor are ALL Americans after all. I'm trying to imagine, too, if this show was Canadian and they did it 'French vs English vs Native' ... and no doubt that would stir up controversy as well because of historic and ongoing tensions that exist.

Maybe society is not ready for this particular issue of Survivor - it's pointing out one of our biggest flaws and we just don't like that. But the more I discuss this, the more I applaud the producers for having the guts to tackle this. Collectively, we have a lot of work to do - and just maybe this will get people thinking.
 
Did anyone else watch. I thought it was neat to watch the different tribes and their impressions about being spit according to race. Your thoughts??

Attached is a clip of the introduction, no need to download.

Survivor Introduction

Dee
 
I didn't think it was neat at all. Race baiting to boost flagging television ratings. Everything old is new again.

So, will they allow the game be played to its natural conclusion, where the superior race exterminates the others altogether? This is reality TV, after all. Or will they merge, encouraging the members of the weaker races to betray their brothers and come over to the winning side?
 
According to the Nielsen ratings for Thursday night, the Cook Islands premiere was one of the least-watched premieres in Survivor's 13-season history. So even if this was all for ratings it's not appearing to pay off just yet.

As for the race thing, there's unnecessary pressure placed on the tribes "of color" to "represent" their race and shed stereotypes. And another important thing: just because you are of the same culture, race or background DOES NOT guarantee that you will get along. I hope people see that here.

Groups of people will always act like groups of people regardless of where they're from.
 
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Watched doesn't make any difference to me how they split up the tribes. It won't last long when one or tow tribes are down to 2 peolpe they will have to merge.
Thought the hippy Asian guy is funny. And they sent that guy who got sent to exile island for stealing a chicken. But think that was really because they were put on the spot and didn't know who to send so used that for their excuse. He just might come back with the idol.
 
I thought I read somewhere that they might merge the tribes as soon as next week.

If this happens it may even be "worse", "more interesting" (pick your word) because now one wonders whether the tribes will mingle or whether they will stick along racial lines. (This is the case more for the "color" tribes than the "white" tribe since even with occasional differences I notice that in a diverse crowd, some groups tend to segregate themselves.)
 
I didn't think it was neat at all. Race baiting to boost flagging television ratings. Everything old is new again.
Math, I truly understand your point. What I thought was neat was how especially in the Asian tribe, not only, the difference in the tribe as far as Korean, Vietnamese and I think Hawaiian people but they were commenting about the differences in age and how they themselves commented about that.
So, will they allow the game be played to its natural conclusion, where the superior race exterminates the others altogether? This is reality TV, after all. Or will they merge, encouraging the members of the weaker races to betray their brothers and come over to the winning side?
So what's new about real life?? I guess why I am not real sensitive about the game is that you and I could not play the game like most of the people on Survivor. I know that I would have a hard time lying and manipulating people for my own gain.

A lot of the so called reality shows are so demeaning to human beings. But those human beings are also the ones that allow the show to demean them.

Math, again, I do understand where you are coming from.

Dee
 
What I thought was neat was how especially in the Asian tribe, not only, the difference in the tribe as far as Korean, Vietnamese and I think Hawaiian people but they were commenting about the differences in age and how they themselves commented about that.

I'm not sure I understand what's so "neat" about this. Although the Asian tribe is of the same "race", they picked contestants from all different parts of Asia/America. They're not all going to act the same or think the same thing! There are ALWAYS going to be differences in age, manner, etc. when you mix up a group of old and young, and from different parts of the world. Doesn't matter what they look like.
 
I'm not sure I understand what's so "neat" about this. Although the Asian tribe is of the same "race", they picked contestants from all different parts of Asia/America. They're not all going to act the same or think the same thing! There are ALWAYS going to be differences in age, manner, etc. when you mix up a group of old and young, and from different parts of the world. Doesn't matter what they look like.

That's part of the point for me. Each tribe has shown diversity within itself. It's just further proof that you can't sterotype people based upon their ethnicity.

Whenever they do merge, the 4 teams will be divided equally into 2 teams. Unless one tribe loses multiple challenges before the merge, the tribes will be racially equal.

There was a recent interview on the radio with Mark Burnett. He said it was ludicrous for people to judge the show without watching it. He's interested in hearing what all the naysayers have to say as the show progresses. I gotta agree with him - you can't judge anything until you've interacted with it.

Let's face facts. People tend to gravitate to people based upon commonalities. Initially, it might just be about physical appearances or hobby or work based. I don't know how many times I've been approached by someone Asian and asked 'where are you from?' My response "I'm American born, but my parents are from China." I've felt just as alienated from non-American born Asians as any other group. Very few non-Asians ask this question until they've gotten to know me.

When I was in college, I got 'volunteered' by friends to participate in a show for Chinese New Year. After that I was pretty much went a long and just enjoyed it - I was even treasurer for 2 years. There were definitely 2 factions. One was the westernized students & American born students who wanted to learn more about our culture and teach it to others. Essentially, wanting to break the stereotypes of the study all the time Chinese person. The other faction was the students who had emigrated to study and who just wanted to meet other Chinese people who they could speak Chinese with - not wanting to assimilate to life in America, but find a comfortable niche. Within this latter faction, there were separate groups from Hong Kong vs Shanghai vs from Guaong Jou, etc - because each dialect is different.

Without seeing the group dynamic or knowing someone who was Chinese, many people just want to think of the goofy stereotypes like Long Duck Dong or some other obscene fictional character.

Even in previous Survivor's gender and race lines were there. Initially, Ghandia and Ted were in a sorta-alliance until she started bad mouthing him. People bond when they come from the same area of the country - Tina and Colby bonded over being from Texas. Stephanie was worried about the Alabama alliance.

What if they divided the tribes by North & South. Should we assume that everyone from the south is a redneck or a cowboy? Based upon past Survivor's, one can categorically say 'of course not'.
 
Well I don't know how this pasted me by when originally entertaining the idea of this whole race thing, but as it has been being mentioned, all will join as one. This resounding message stood out to me as I watched the premiere. That is a good message.

Sorry to quote myself, but..

Like birds of a feather
we flock together
But still forced to join as one.

At the same time I feel stupid for not recognizing the obvious, this one will send a good message.

As far as the comparisons to "male / female" etc.... That is not a good comparison. In the thought that there is nothing like racial stereo types there is nothing like proving how "animalistic and antiquated" such ideology is by using them as means to fail. After all the fact that any team wins will have nothing to do with race and everything to do with Human perseverance. What "encourages" such integrity, well that is open to the individuals. And individuals they are.

And congratulations to the Survivor crew, the attention they have received has been incredibly evident. There has no mention of the shows events, just the premise. Good job Jeff. :agree:

I certainly hope that I won't be misunderstood this time.:cool:
 
So, how is it going so far?

The black tribe is slow and stupid. Give them flint, they still can't make a fire. The only reason they haven't lost everything is because...

they are up against the Hispanics, who are so busy bickering among themselves that they would rather punish one of their own members than try to do their best in a challenge.

Meanwhile, the white tribe is a bunch of Yahoos, while the Asians are the cleverest -- gotta watch out for them, man, just look at Toyota.

The only person who is not "representin'" her stereotype is Roller Girl, who so far hasn't come off as quite the slacker dudette that the audience wants to see.
 
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