Now that it's official, can Michelle win the OGM?

[demarinis5]

Name for me which top ladies in contention for gold are doing 3x3
consistently in their programs,.certainly not Sasha and she is in
contention for gold. MK may not win the gold but it won't be for lack of
3X3.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Name for me which top ladies in contention for gold are doing 3x3
consistently in their programs,.certainly not Sasha and she is in
contention for gold. MK may not win the gold but it won't be for lack of
3X3.

She is the underdog so she would have to do something more than Sasha or Irina to have any chance of winning.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Yes, she came to Lillehammer to make a statement about Sarajevo, and her "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?" program did just that.

Witt also competed so that her parents could attend the Olympics in person, which they weren't able to do while she was skating for GDR and competing in the West.

 

[soogar]

I respectfully disagree with you and Kat. First, it was a silly remark. There are reasons for going to Olys other than (a) the OGM or (b) "'the experience". I read somewhere, for example, that Kat went to Olys in '94 to skate a routine to "make a statement" about the situation in Sarajevo. Suppose Michelle wanted to tie another long standing record -- which she will do if she wins a medal, any color -- because she will tie Sonia Henie for most Oly medals in the ladies event.

.

Kat went to the Olympics to win a medal. She just didn't say a whole lot about it b/c people were ridiculing her lack of technical merit. Kat also made the German team fair and square. She placed in the top 2 at Nats and was the second highest German at Euros to be put on the team. And she did this all with only two different triples to her name. So both German judges and "neutral" judges at Euros thought Kat was the second best German woman. Whatever Kat's intentions were about going to the Olympics, she competed for her spot and won it. And no one gave it her out of the goodness of their hearts or give her extra time to get herself together like they did with Michelle. So it doesn't matter whether Kat was going to the Olympics to make a statement or whatever.

Anyway, when you read Kat's book, you will see that she was gunning for a medal, and possibly hoping for a wipeout like in 1992 where she could perhaps pick up another gold. In her Olympic recollection, she talked about how her SP was clean and that she was in 6th place despite a flawed program from Oksana (even though Oksana did a 3z combo). Kat said that when she skated her lp, she messed up b/c the andrenaline was pumping her up with the possibility of a bronze medal. She definitely went there to compete.

 

[soogar]

Name for me which top ladies in contention for gold are doing 3x3
consistently in their programs,.certainly not Sasha and she is in
contention for gold. MK may not win the gold but it won't be for lack of
3X3.

The winning lady doesn't have to do a 3-3 consistently. She just has to be comfortable enough to attempt 3-3s. Attempting the 3-3 is half the battle. If you don't attempt it, you won't land one. And the lady who wins will have the guts to attempt one and the good fortune to land the thing at the right moment. Which means things are looking good for Miki and Carolina. Even Irina has some control of her fate if she goes out and skates with some guts b/c Irina has already shown that she can land 3-3s. My opinion is that Irina will play it safe and she will get passed by.

 

[demarinis5]

Both Tara and Sarah did 3x3 in their LP, I think Sarah did two and
both won gold. We know from this past season that a skater does not
need to be perfect to win, falls out of jumps, hands down on ice. I am
no COP expert but it is all about the numbers and you can garner enough
points to win without a 3x3 or a perfect skate. I guess my point is that
I do not think a 3x3 is that important to win gold under COP. Just my opinion.

 

[slutskayafan21]

The winning lady doesn't have to do a 3-3 consistently. She just has to be comfortable enough to attempt 3-3s. Attempting the 3-3 is half the battle. If you don't attempt it, you won't land one. And the lady who wins will have the guts to attempt one and the good fortune to land the thing at the right moment. Which means things are looking good for Miki and Carolina. Even Irina has some control of her fate if she goes out and skates with some guts b/c Irina has already shown that she can land 3-3s. My opinion is that Irina will play it safe and she will get passed by.

My opinion is that if Irina does a clean short and clean long she will win with no 3/3 attempts unless a truly polished skater like Cohen, or heaven forbid Kwan, can do a seven triple program with a 3/3. Miki or Carolina will need more than a 3/3 to beat a clean Irina. Arakawa could win it if she does her 3/3s without losing points for cheating her jumps.

 

[attyfan]

... Yes, she came to Lillehammer to make a statement about Sarajevo, and her "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?" program did just that.

Michelle, however, has remained an eligible skater all these years. She has a silver and and a bronze Olympic medal, so at this point she should not go to the Olympics just to soak up the experience. ...

You miss my point. My point is that Kat created a false dichotomy -- "go for the gold" or "go for the experience" Her career demonstates that there are other reasons to go, other than gold or the experience -- for example, to get a third medal or to make a political statement.

Similarly, if Michelle is going to get into the record books (again -- since she tied a record at Nats and tied a record at Worlds, if she can tie a record at Olys, she has a wonderful trifecta), then she is doing just what Kat did. Michelle also qualified -- fairly and squarely, under the rules, and as fairly as other competitors (Todd Eldredge, '92 Olys; Meno & Sand, '98 Olys, or Irina Slutskaya, '04 Worlds)

Before the Slutskaya fans go up in arms, please remember that this was the year Irina was sick and did not compete all yea; the Russian federation sent her to Worlds on a test skate, since her skate convinced them that she was better than the other ladies who medaled at Russian Nats.

 

[slutskayafan21]

You miss my point. My point is that Kat created a false dichotomy -- "go for the gold" or "go for the experience" Her career demonstates that there are other reasons to go, other than gold or the experience -- for example, to get a third medal or to make a political statement.

Similarly, if Michelle is going to get into the record books (again -- since she tied a record at Nats and tied a record at Worlds, if she can tie a record at Olys, she has a wonderful trifecta), then she is doing just what Kat did. Michelle also qualified -- fairly and squarely, under the rules, and as fairly as other competitors (Todd Eldredge, '92 Olys; Meno & Sand, '98 Olys, or Irina Slutskaya, '04 Worlds)

Before the Slutskaya fans go up in arms, please remember that this was the year Irina was sick and did not compete all yea; the Russian federation sent her to Worlds on a test skate, since her skate convinced them that she was better than the other ladies who medaled at Russian Nats.

Hey you could even say Slutskaya took somebody elses spot on the Russian Oly team this year right? After all she had to miss Russian Nationals, I wonder if there was a similar outcry in Russia over whatever-her-name-is unfairly having her Oly spot taken away and given to Irina based on her reputation and stature.
:chorus:

 

[Mathman]

I have no doubt that Katarina Witt loves her parents and feels empathy with the people of war-torn Sarajevo. But I'll bet my bottom dollar that she went to Lillehammer to try to win the gold medal.

 

[Mathman]

Speaking of Lillehammer, who was bumped off the Olympic teams so that Brian Boitano, Torville and Dean, and Gordeeva and Grinkov could go? Did Brian Boitano have to do a test skate to be placed on the U.S. team?

MM

 

[SusanBeth]

Brian was second at nationals behind Scott Davis in 1994. No test skate was required.

 

[soogar]

Both Tara and Sarah did 3x3 in their LP, I think Sarah did two and
both won gold. We know from this past season that a skater does not
need to be perfect to win, falls out of jumps, hands down on ice. I am
no COP expert but it is all about the numbers and you can garner enough
points to win without a 3x3 or a perfect skate. I guess my point is that
I do not think a 3x3 is that important to win gold under COP. Just my opinion.

Well Mao beat Irina b/c she attempted more triples than Irina. I don't think Mao did a 3-3 combo, but doing that triple axel and having it ratified really gave her an advantage over Irina. The skater who does 3-3 even with a two foot on the second triple, will get more points than the skater who does a perfect 3-2. As long as the triple is fully rotated, that skater will build an advantage in the TES. Look how Sasha got beaten by Mao at TEB. Sasha's style couldn't hold her up compared to the numbers Mao go for TES. And Mao's jumps aren't even textbook technique.

 

[R.D.]

Hey you could even say Slutskaya took somebody elses spot on the Russian Oly team this year right? After all she had to miss Russian Nationals, I wonder if there was a similar outcry in Russia over whatever-her-name-is unfairly having her Oly spot taken away and given to Irina based on her reputation and stature.
:chorus:

Well with all due respect to both competitors, Irina at least competed quite a bit in the past two years and has only lost once- to an upstart who won't even be at the Games. It can also be argued that her case to go is stronger than MK's, since MK WAS on top but hasn't really shown herself much lately.

 

[mzheng]

Hey you could even say Slutskaya took somebody elses spot on the Russian Oly team this year right? After all she had to miss Russian Nationals, I wonder if there was a similar outcry in Russia over whatever-her-name-is unfairly having her Oly spot taken away and given to Irina based on her reputation and stature.
:chorus:

Not in Russia, more or less they still in old Soviet mentality that Sports Governer body has the total control/right of who they want to send.....this type media fan frenzy you can only find in a more democratic environment.

Different federation has different select rules. I thought I read Russian or most european countries also use European as the trial besides their Nationals. So IS's on Russian team this season definitely meet their select rules. But in 2004 that was a very similar situation as Kwan of now. Then again as select rules stated by both federations, I believe IS and Kwan's on team both meet the rule.

Give it a rest already ppl. Nothing violate the rules. And the select rules was there long before MK's petetion. And the procedure is followed up with the highest standard of precedence (Tood, Mino/Sand, Nancy, etc.). The only excemption was Media is allowed to attend the monitoring procedure. An even more higher standard.

The water under the bridge. MK make the US Olympics team fair and sqear, no foul, no cry. She is going to Turino.

 

[demarinis5]

Well Mao beat Irina b/c she attempted more triples than Irina. I don't think Mao did a 3-3 combo, but doing that triple axel and having it ratified really gave her an advantage over Irina. The skater who does 3-3 even with a two foot on the second triple, will get more points than the skater who does a perfect 3-2. As long as the triple is fully rotated, that skater will build an advantage in the TES. Look how Sasha got beaten by Mao at TEB. Sasha's style couldn't hold her up compared to the numbers Mao go for TES. And Mao's jumps aren't even textbook technique.

I agree with what you say about Mao but I am talking about the top ladies competing in Torino. Mao will not be in Torino. Case in point Irina did a 3x3 at Worlds but has won every other major competion (except GPF loss to Mao) without a 3x3, which by the way I thought Irina should have won.

 

[Misplaced Gymnast]

Ya know, this fuss about Emily is coming from the anyone but MK fans. Everything was done by the rules. Emily was considered for the team as it should be for a skater who placed in the Nats but according to rules MK asked for a bye. She did not toss Emily out. Emily was never in to be tossed out. Neither was MK in 92 in and tossed out.

I hope not, since MK was only 11 years old in 1992.

Oh, one other thing. IMO, If Alissa gets her act together it'll be bye bye Emilie next year.

Will Alissa *ever* put it all together though? *sigh*

 

[Kathy]

In response to the original question, YES, Michelle could win. We all know the reasons why. Irina, Sasha, and/or someone else could win too, and we all know the reasons why. And they could all fail to win gold, and we all know the reasons why. It was looking incredibly bleak for MK for a while, but the rumors of her "worse than revealed injury" proved false, she won the spot on the team fairly and convincingly, and I think she impressed the committee. They didn't have to say they thought she could win the Olympics. This was announced as a unanimous decision - they didn't have to say that to get her a spot on the team. They could have said that she could get a medal, and could have said that she was one of the best 3 in the US. Now you could argue that this was PR - but I don't think so - because it's risky if she looks very inferior when she gets there, and because of the look on Horen's face when he said it - almost like "I wouldn't have believed it either but it's true - by gosh she could win based on what we saw." I think MK is much farther along than her critics think. And as for the 3/3 well we all know she can do them, neither she nor anyone else has to do them in umpteen competitions - she only has to do it once - at the right time. And I think she just might go for broke and try. With all the pressure of this skate test, I have a feeling she go into the Olympics calm and confident.

 

[mzheng]

Will Alissa *ever* put it all together though? *sigh*

I don't think Alissa has correct jump technique, especially her double axel, with not so well trainned eyes, my daughter predicted she would fall when she saw her entry into the jump....without the technique, how can you get it consistant? And the nerves. It was said at about the same level (skaters have basically the same tricks levle) the competetion mostly come down to the mental game.

 

[Misplaced Gymnast]

I don't think Alissa has correct jump technique, especially her double axel, with not so well trainned eyes, my daughter predicted she would fall when she saw her entry into the jump....without the technique, how can you get it consistant? And the nerves. It was said at about the same level (skaters have basically the same tricks levle) the competetion mostly come down to the mental game.

After Nationals, several posters among the boards commented on Alissa's (lack of?) technique. Not to hijack the thread, but does she need a coaching change? And given her situation (college, close to her family), would she do it?