Off-Season Debate, Question 1: Can Kimmie Keep Up The Momentum?

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't think Cohen was even vaguely a favourite for the 2002 medal...if she'd have won it, it would have been a spoiler, hughes as reigning worlds bronze medalist was more on the map than Cohen who had never skated in an international Championship until SLC Olympics.Ant

There was a large contingent of new fans of Sasha who thought that she would pull a Tara and keep the Oly gold for teenagers. Understandable. Sasha was good but somewhat raw, imo.

C'mon Joe - i kow that you don't mean it but Kimmie and Asada are no ballerinas...from what i hear (though i haven't seen) Yu Na is the only one with the presentation skills to start (prematurely) calling a ballerina!

You are correct. I use the term jokingly because Dick used it way back. My personal feelings about ballerinas is that there are none in figure skating.

I believe that, before the Olympics were held, in their point system the rankings were Fumie, Miki, and Mao (I'm not sure in what order) followed by Shizuka, Yukari, and Yoshie. So the statement that the rule kept Mao from going to the Olympics and we got Miki was inaccurate. If Mao had been allowed to go to the Olympics, it would have been the Olympic Gold Medalist who was bumped from the team. Not picking on your statement, exactly, I just found it to be something interesting to think about

I stand corrected. I did not know the Japanese listing beforehand. I just assumed Shizuka would be among the chosen 3. Sorry about that.

Joe

 

[SeaniBu]

That Girl I have faith in! - Being Kimmie.

Ballerina LIKE, yes she is. - Dick's comments were relating to her body proportions.

That young lady has more personality then MK already, she is just focused.

And to boot, 3-4 years and she will be stunningly beautiful.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm not sure who "That Girl" is if it isn't Marlo Thomas. I believe you are talking about Kimmie and not Sasha. Am I correct?

Joe

 

[R.D.]

I'm not the poster, but the last sentence IMO gives away that it's about Kimmie.

and I do agree with that comment. But nothing else.

 

[Mathman]

She is absolutely different then per-say a Mao, she is not some "trained organ grinder's monkey" doing tricks because it is the only thing that she has ever done that make people happy.

Well, it's the Internet Age, and yes, we have different standards of kindness and courtesy than we had before. Still, to me, a person can praise his favorite (per se) without insulting her rival by comparing her to a monkey doing tricks.

Mao is off to a fine competitive start. Her presentation skills, while age-appropriate, are keeping pace, as she showed in her light-hearted Carmen SP this year (choreographed in part by Lea Ann Miller).

(Not that there was anything wrong with Kimmie's take on the Queen of Sheba by Lori Nichol )

Mathman

 

[Spun Silver]

Do any of the ballet fans here remember the young (age 15, dancing Swan Lake) Darci Kistler?

It strikes me that Kimmie is like her in many ways - willowy, a little gawky, lacking in depth of artistry, and chockful of potential. Like Kimmie (picked by Peggy F as the next big one) DK was a star almost before she started performing. I didn't see the potential then which has made me leery of predicting teenagers' futures ever since.

Not that I was ever a big Kistler fan - I don't think one suddenly gains the quality of MAGIC - but she certainly became a beautiful dancer and a star... despite a major hip injury when still very young that many thought would end her career. (It didn't.)

Anyway, it would be silly to write off Kimmie, IMO. Time is on her side, she seems to be a great competitor, and if she stays healthy, or is strong enough to overcome injuries, I expect we'll be seeing her on a lot of podiums.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Darcy did become an excellent dancer. Developing a craft takes time. With the trend going to 'older' gals, Kimmie may well become a knockout. She has time in her favor.

I believe one should not compare great skating with gold medals. Sometimes they coincide but not always.

Joe

 

[Lucy25]

There was a large contingent of new fans of Sasha who thought that she would pull a Tara and keep the Oly gold for teenagers. Understandable. Sasha was good but somewhat raw, imo.Joe

Not just a group of fans. Sandra Bezic kept saying that Sasha could very well win. I remember very clearly Sandra inserting this opinion every time a ladies' practice was showed or talked about.

 

[Mathman]

Well, I think Sandra Bezik was right. Sasha "could have" won. She (not Sarah) was in third place after the short program. As Scott Hamilton put it when Sasha took the ice for the LP, "She wins the long, she wins the gold."

Sasha had also finished ahead of Sarah (and won the short program) at U.S. Nationals. So it wouldn't have been a shocker if it had been Sasha, rather than Sarah, who was there to grab the top prize when Michelle and Irina faltered.

Plus, Sasha (not Sarah) was being universally lauded at the time for her "balletic" grace and burgeonng presentation skills. So I don't think it was a stretch to regard Sasha as the number one "dark horse" competitor at Salt Lake City. (Not to mention, she got president George Bush's vote, LOL.)

MM

 

[attyfan]

Well, I think Sandra Bezik was right. Sasha "could have" won. She (not Sarah) was in third place after the short program. As Scott Hamilton put it when Sasha took the ice for the LP, "She wins the long, she wins the gold."

Sasha had also finished ahead of Sarah (and won the short program) at U.S. Nationals. So it wouldn't have been a shocker if it had been Sasha, rather than Sarah, who was there to grab the top prize when Michelle and Irina faltered.
...
MM

IIRC, Sasha skated before MK and Irina -- and it is possible that Sasha winning the FS might have changed the "psychological dynamic", so Michelle and/or Irina did not falter. For example, after Sarah's skate, MK might have thought "here we go again" (rhyming name, 3/3s), causing the faltering; if Sasha beat that (and I don't think she had a 3/3), MK might have thought differently. So, even if Sasha had beaten Sarah in the FS, you can't say she would have "grab[bed] the top prize when Michelle and Irina faltered"

 

[Mathman]

No, but one could say, as I did, that it "wouldn't have been a shocker" if she had.

That is a fascinating point, though -- how those doggone "psychological dynamics" always seem to throw a monkey wrench into the equation.

Michelle had no reason to worry about Sarah no matter how many triple/triples Sarah did or how many ghosts from the past she may have conjured up. All Michelle had to do was beat Irina for second place in the long.

But if Sasha had done better than Sarah, then Michelle would have had to beat Sasha, PLUS worry about what Irina was going to do.

MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Indeed, Sasha was in position to win that competition. However, it was true Sasha at the moment of triumph to falter. Sara who struggled through the SP and was basically out of contention, relaxed and then rose to the challenge. The three ahead of her just bombed.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

SLC/Cohen is a fine topic, but THIS IS NOT A SASHA THREAD

Can [Kimmie] win the US title next year? She has to be the favorite to win the U.S. title now. She just won worlds, something Sasha has never done and Michelle has not done since 2003.

I agree...Kimmie will definitely be the favorite, even if the veterans show up. The question is whether she'll be able to rise to the challenge. Has she ever been the favorite in a competition before? And if she has, how did she do?

Is she going to be a one-hit wonder? I am 95% sure we will see her on the worlds podium again, though it may not be at the top step. Based on that, she will not be a one-hit wonder.

I also kind of agree with this. But I have a feeling that this won't happen next year, especially if the vets stay in.

 

[Mathman]

Sorry. I thought this was a Darci Kistler thread.

 

[SeaniBu]

Noted and retracted

Well, it's the Internet Age, and yes, we have different standards of kindness and courtesy than we had before. Still, to me, a person can praise his favorite (per se) without insulting her rival by comparing her to a monkey doing tricks.

You are right Mathman, That was uncalled for. I Apologize. I would like to say the same should hold true for each other as well, i.e. poster to poster.:yes:

I really should have said that I don't feel like Kimmie is as "Government Molded" as Moa. I have noticed the aggressive attitude of the Japanese being very similar to that of Former Soviet Union. Like they are more "forced or advantageously enticed" rather than "Free to follow a dream." Most definitely a opinion only. My comment was far to close to a "visual comparison" to have been appropriate at all - although it was not meat to say she looks....just the "master and puppet" was what I meant.

 

[SeaniBu]

I'm not sure who "That Girl" is if it isn't Marlo Thomas. I believe you are talking about Kimmie and not Sasha. Am I correct?

Joe

Wasn't clear, fixed. Marlo eh? Must be a "TV Land" fan or you are as old or older the I. I used to love that show, is it on anywhere?

BTW. I couldn't conceder Sasha a "girl" anymore - attitude or age. Her Colorado Springs interview at the Broadmore 2005, left me jaw droped. I would safely say she is definably a woman now - but as far as her looks go, I think she has "Dick Clark disease" ever young and admirably cute.

 

[R.D.]

That Girl I have faith in! - Being Kimmie.

Ballerina LIKE, yes she is. - Dick's comments were relating to her body proportions.

That young lady has more personality then MK already, she is just focused.

And to boot, 3-4 years and she will be stunningly beautiful.

I think I'll wait for Kimmie to grow a little before I comment on her "style". She seems to be finding it right now.

And personality...certainly plenty of spunk off the ice, but on the ice...

Yes, she has the potential to look a stunner. Sorry to go OT again (then again, maybe I shouldn't be) but look at Tara...she was quite gawky-looking as a teenager but grew up to be really stunning, IMO.

 

[Wolfgang]

I'd never seen Kimmie until Torino, and was instantly impressed!
Spunky, athletic, a good head on her shoulders, very 'with it' and apparently realistic.
Even more impressive was the way she made some really difficult stuff look oh so easy, like anyone could do it.
Sure she's not all that graceful and 'womanly' right now, but that's because she's 16.....
I actually thought she should have placed higher in Torino, I'm pretty sure she'll be at or near the top for some time to come.

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for posting, Wolfgang, and welcome to the forum!

Mathman

 

[76olympics]

Bringing up Nicole Bobek in the same thread with Kimmie has me scratching my head. This is like comparing Barbie with Skipper--by the time Nicole won Nationals,she had already gone through coach after coach and the Nationals win was considered a renaissance for her. She had poor training habits, an unstable family life, and was never known to turn down late nights and parties.

That said-Nicole certainly had a sparkle to her skating and lots of raw talent, but Kimmie seems like a picture of focus and determination in comparison. I think Kimmie will do well. She just needs time and space to develop a style and good fortune vaulting over bridge between young teen and young lady.