Off-Season Debate, Question 1: Can Kimmie Keep Up The Momentum?

[R.D.]

I'd never seen Kimmie until Torino, and was instantly impressed!
Spunky, athletic, a good head on her shoulders, very 'with it' and apparently realistic.
Even more impressive was the way she made some really difficult stuff look oh so easy, like anyone could do it.
Sure she's not all that graceful and 'womanly' right now, but that's because she's 16.....
I actually thought she should have placed higher in Torino, I'm pretty sure she'll be at or near the top for some time to come.

Were you actually at the event or are you just talking about seeing her on TV (like the rest of us )?

 

[kyla2]

Kimmie

Kimmie needs some real maturing before she repeats as World Champion. All of which could happen in a year, just like it did with Michelle in the 90's. She has tons of potential and her toughness in competition (much like Michelle) will keep her up there with the other young wonders. But, having said that, I remember Darci Kistler and I hate to sound a negatice note here, but she is no Darci Kistler.

 

[R.D.]

Kimmie needs some real maturing before she repeats as World Champion.

Umm, she didn't need any maturing to become World champ in the first place.

And, unless her competitors actually step up to the plate next year (and SHE can do it again), she likely may not need any maturing to win again, either.

JMHO

 

[SeaniBu]

Umm, she didn't need any maturing to become World champ in the first place.

And, unless her competitors actually step up to the plate next year (and SHE can do it again), she likely may not need any maturing to win again, either.

JMHO

I agree with you that she doesn't NEED to, yet as you mentioned earlier about her having a better personality off ice than on - it would be nice to see that aspect mature. This might help her, and if others recognize the "Kimmie challenge" they might compensate in a way that would require her to "develop something" in that area - for her own confidence or maybe just the fans (as above).

IOW. I don't think she needs to as well, yet I certainly hope she does and feel she will.

 

[antmanb]

Not just a group of fans. Sandra Bezic kept saying that Sasha could very well win. I remember very clearly Sandra inserting this opinion every time a ladies' practice was showed or talked about.

Perhaps then she had more coverage as a "favourite" in North America but over in Europe the Olympics would have been the first time alot of people saw her skate. The commentators did note that she was a very promising skater and might surprise the favourites if she skates well but i don't think she was ever considered a favourite at the time. After the SP there was more chance but i think our commentators believed the top skaters would have to make mistakes to let Sasha through...of course they did but it didn't quite go in Sasha's favour.

Ant

 

[Wolfgang]

Thanks for the welcome, Mathman, I'm happy to have found a forum where you can actually talk about actual skating, not just celebrities.....

Mad Dog - I watched NBC's somewhat confusing Torino coverage (10 minutes of luge, 15 minutes of skating, 5 minutes of snowboarding, 10 minutes of biathlon......).
I've been to Torino many years ago (for a day or two), and seem to remember it was much bigger and further away from the mountains than the TV pictures made it look, it certainly isn't a village.....

What I like best about Kimmie Meissner is the apparent ease with which she rattles off all these extremly difficult maneuvers, makes me think she trains really, really hard, and can probably do triples at 3 a.m. half asleep......
Some of the others do difficult things, and you can see they're difficult, with her, they look just easy-breezy, like it's the simplest thing in the world.

 

[millie]

Thanks for the welcome, Mathman, I'm happy to have found a forum where you can actually talk about actual skating, not just celebrities.....

Mad Dog - I watched NBC's somewhat confusing Torino coverage (10 minutes of luge, 15 minutes of skating, 5 minutes of snowboarding, 10 minutes of biathlon......).
I've been to Torino many years ago (for a day or two), and seem to remember it was much bigger and further away from the mountains than the TV pictures made it look, it certainly isn't a village.....

What I like best about Kimmie Meissner is the apparent ease with which she rattles off all these extremly difficult maneuvers, makes me think she trains really, really hard, and can probably do triples at 3 a.m. half asleep......
Some of the others do difficult things, and you can see they're difficult, with her, they look just easy-breezy, like it's the simplest thing in the world.

Mad Dog---

 

[Mathman]

Wolfgang, to close italics go [/i] at the end. (Same with bold, quote, etc.)

MM

 

[R.D.]

Thanks for the welcome, Mathman, I'm happy to have found a forum where you can actually talk about actual skating, not just celebrities.....

Mad Dog - I watched NBC's somewhat confusing Torino coverage (10 minutes of luge, 15 minutes of skating, 5 minutes of snowboarding, 10 minutes of biathlon......).
I've been to Torino many years ago (for a day or two), and seem to remember it was much bigger and further away from the mountains than the TV pictures made it look, it certainly isn't a village.....

Now, come on, Mad Dog? The least you could do is get my UN right but I have to admit, I did get a chuckle out of that.

What I like best about Kimmie Meissner is the apparent ease with which she rattles off all these extremly difficult maneuvers, makes me think she trains really, really hard, and can probably do triples at 3 a.m. half asleep......
Some of the others do difficult things, and you can see they're difficult, with her, they look just easy-breezy, like it's the simplest thing in the world.

That's the difference between a good skater and a great skater, IMO.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

What I liked about Kimmie in Calgary were the 3x3s which she executed (one of them in front of me) as just a part of the routine. She didn' sell them. They were just as much a part of the program as her double axel.

Also she's leggy which she will have to control more than Sasha or Michelle who are not long stemmed.

Joe

 

[Wolfgang]

Sorry, Dog (too ghetto...?)
That's what happens when you get carried away typing.....(?!?)

I just watched Kimmie's Worlds program a friend recorded for me (no ESPN...), and she was more or less the only one who actually looked like she was having fun skating.....
Her and maybe the Russian girl, Sokolova (the person who designed her outfit needs to be shot at dawn), everybody else looked like they were doing a math test they were not prepared for.
I don't know if a lady has landed a quad yet, but I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Kimmie has already done them, at least at home in practice. The ease with which she pops one jump after another out of the hat makes me think they would be relatively easy for her.

Awesome!!

 

[Mathman]

Kimmie hasn't landed a quad in competiton, but last year at nationals she became the first U.S. lady since Tonya Harding to land a triple Axel. (She seems to have abandoned that jump, however, in favor of solid triple-triples.)

The only lady to land a quad in competition is Miki Ando a couple of years ago. Sasha worked on the quad Salchow early in her career, and landed some in practice, but never in competition.

MM

 

[kyla2]

Red Dog

Oh yeah, she won Worlds this year but without the usual tough competition. To add to that, next year Mao will be showing up. So yes, she does need maturing if she wants to repeat. I do not expect to see her atop the podium next year.

 

[SeaniBu]

The only lady to land a quad in competition is Miki Ando a couple of years ago. Sasha worked on the quad Salchow early in her career, and landed some in practice, but never in competition.

MM

Have you any videos of that quad of Miki's. I missed it. How was the rest of that program / I have pics, but would love to see the video if it's out there. The 2005 season seemed much the same as her performance in thew Oly.s I still wonder about the comments that it maybe the last of Miki. I certainly hope not, I really enjoy her, she has a great way of captivating when she's on. Even when she's off she has a charming persona about her. And I just HAVE to say, she is becoming more gorgeous ever month or so.....sorry back on topic, any links to vids? Suminasen?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Oh yeah, she won Worlds this year but without the usual tough competition. To add to that, next year Mao will be showing up. So yes, she does need maturing if she wants to repeat. I do not expect to see her atop the podium next year.

Kyla - I understand the maturity thing that is being thrown around the board here. It is not unlike mentioning Sarah Hughes without saying she has underrotated jumps. They were not underrotated in SLC otherwise she would not have won the Olys. She skated first among the top 4 and there was no reason for any hanky panky to put her first. Three overhyped skaters were to follow her and there was plenty of room in the scores left for them to be on the podium. Only 2 made it to the podium. Sarah won fair and square.

Back to Kimmie who is now being branded immature as well as Mao. These young ladies have time to develop. Let them. Sasha and Michelle have solid styles but lack the thrilling jump combos. Have they time to develop the 3x3s?

Joe

 

[R.D.]

Oh yeah, she won Worlds this year but without the usual tough competition. To add to that, next year Mao will be showing up. So yes, she does need maturing if she wants to repeat. I do not expect to see her atop the podium next year.

You could say the same thing about Mao herself. I think "maturing" comes with time. It will happen. Also, if Kimmie truly enjoys skating, I think eventually she'll develop her own style.

She did have the performance of her life which is tough for ANY competitor to duplicate. She and Mao will be feeling most of the pressure next year, IMO.

 

[hockeyfan228]

They were not underrotated in SLC otherwise she would not have won the Olys... Sarah won fair and square.

6.0 was lenient with underrotated jumps, which is how Ando's quad sal became ratified. It was not lenient with double-footed jump and throw landings for ratification. CoP is the opposite: underrotations are called, but double-footed landings are ratified, if they are fully rotated. Under 6.0, Hughes did win fair and square, because under 6.0, she landed two 3/3's.

 

[kyla2]

Joe, Red Dog

Joe,yes, Kimmie should be allowed to mature and I thoroughly expect her to do so. She is a true competitor. In that, she reminds me of Michelle. But I don't know if it will happen by next year. It COULD, but it remains to be seen. As for the older competitors adding triple-triples, I think it could happen, but it depends upon how they recover from their injuries and if they do. There would be a very good chance that they will re-injure themselves as they try to up the ante.

Red Dog, I agree that Mao is immature in her style also. But I think she has a little more flair than Kimmie. She also has a ton of combination jumps in her arsenal and she is the hot young thing on the scene right now. It is going to be interesting. If Irina remains on the scene (about right now I never want to see her again) she is also a real contender whenever she skates.

 

[Mathman]

Have you any videos of that quad of Miki's. I missed it. How was the rest of that program / I have pics, but would love to see the video if it's out there. The 2005 season seemed much the same as her performance in the Oly.s I still wonder about the comments that it maybe the last of Miki. I certainly hope not, I really enjoy her, she has a great way of captivating when she's on. Even when she's off she has a charming persona about her. And I just HAVE to say, she is becoming more gorgeous ever month or so.....sorry back on topic, any links to vids?

I don't know a link to a video, but the event was the 2002 Junior Grand Prix Final. Most people say that it would most likely not have been ratified under the New Judging System because it appeared to have been underrotated. (The 6.0 judging system wasn't so strict about that.)

In fact, she stopped trying it after her experience with the jump at Skate America, 2004. She didn't quite make the rotations, plus she fell. So this element, which was supposed to be worth 9.5 points, first was downgraded to a triple Sal (4.5 points), then take off -3 mandatory GOE, then -1 for the fall, and she ended up with a grand total of 0.5 points for the element. (She finished 6th.)

Will she retire? Well, she's only 18. But her best competitive year was 2004 when she won the Japanese National Championship (she also won in 2005) and finished 4th at Worlds.

She is obviously a stunning beauty and has all kinds of huge endorsement contracts in Japan -- more than Shizuka, Fumie, or Mao. There was a certain amount of grumbling that she should not have been placed on the Olympic team ahead of Nakano, who had a better year. Miki finished 6th at 2006 Japanese Nationals. But the Japanese Federation used a point system that gave Miki a lot of credit for her achievements over the previous two years.

(The charge -- unsubstantiated, in my opinion -- was that vested corporate interests pressured the Japanese Federation to send Miki, because of their investment in her -- much like the charge that USFS was under pressure from the money people to send Michelle to Torino, even if all she was able to do was get on the next plane back home. Publicity is publicity!)

MM

PS. About Sasha's flirtation with the quad Salchow, AFAIK she tried it only once in competition. I think it was the Nebelhorn trophy in 2000. She fell badly and never really recovered, skating a sub-par performance the rest of the way.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I can't find my notes for Dortmund, but I thought Ando tried a quad sal at Worlds and fell. My TiVo didn't pick up the CBC broadcast for Ladies, and I never downloaded her free skate, so I can't check to see if it was there or in the quali round.