Pairs & Dance Teams with Citizenship Issues

[Ares]

Korea is now giving away citizenships to foreign athletes like candies so Gamelin should be fine

South Korea transferred some Russian ladies in biathlon to their team with Pyeong Chang in mind past season ... I think that Gamelin should be fine.

 

[Ares]

Yes i kinda thought the trouble days are over and all is good.

It also had that conflation in my mind - in my case until last year.

 

[Ice Dance]

they'll have to contend against another team whose eligibility is in question, Abachkina/Thauron. She was born in Russia but moved to France as a child. Generally you can't apply for citizenship until you're 18, and her birthday is in January which might be too late.

Per FSU, Abachkina has her citizenship now.

 

[Celine]

What's the deadline to obtain citizenship in order to qualify to compete at the Olympics?

 

[Chemistry66]

What's the deadline to obtain citizenship in order to qualify to compete at the Olympics?

It's a bit complicated.

The final Olympic deadline for entries is January 29th, 2018, 06:00 Korea time.

However, accreditation of potential athletes must be done by October 9th so it depends on if they let skaters still awaiting citizenship to begin the process in case their citizenship comes through in time.

And you also have to consider that countries who earned spots via Worlds must confirm if they accept those spots by September 15th (so unused spots can be reallocated at Nebelhorn 2 weeks later), and countries that earn spots at Nebelhorn have to accept those by October 30th.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Looking at the law now, unless Mervin has held a green card five years in advance of whenever the IOC requires athletes to be citizens of their country, and has been continually residing in the United States in those five years, and at least lives in the address in which he is using on his naturalization application for some time (I think 3 months), he won't have U.S. citizenship for 2022 either. I understand he wants to train in Montreal and Marissa was ok with that because she felt she didn't need to go to another Olympics at the time, but if they are actively seeking citizenship now because they changed their mind on that, I fear it's already too late for 2022.

 

[TontoK]

Perhaps its because of my own personal pride in being an American... and the very high value I place on my citizenship...

But I'm always, maybe "disheartened" is the word... when the discussions of eligible skaters comes up. And that's because I sometimes sense a feeling from a few fellow fans that switching citizenship for the sake of an athletic competition is just an administrative process requiring an athlete to jump through some hoops. Sort of like a federation making sure their entry list is submitted on time.

When a person changes citizenship, they are renouncing their allegiance to their homeland, the land of their ancestors. They are, in a sense, tying their future children and descendants to a new land. "If my new country goes to war on my old one... my children will fight my brother's children." That sort of thing.

I think it's a big deal. Much bigger than an Olympic Games.

I also think national identity is a big thing for most athletes. I remember the Olympics held during the breakup of the Soviet Union. Those athletes got their medals under the banner of the ISU flag, while Beethoven was playing on the loudspeaker. It made for strange and unemotional medal ceremonies.

 

[Barb]

IMO, a paper will not make you forget and will not prevent you from continuing to love your country.

 

[TontoK]

IMO, a paper will not make you forget and will not prevent you from continuing to love your country.

I don't think "well, it's convenient for me at this moment in my life" is a good selling point. I mean for the country you'd like to join.

Not to mention offhandedly referring to citizenship in said country as a "paper."

Also, not to mention that when you become a citizen, the country you'd like to continue loving is no longer "your" country. You have a new one.

I'm not arguing against NEVER changing citizenship. But I am arguing against it for the sake of convenience or athletic expediency.

 

[sarama]

I don't think "well, it's convenient for me at this moment in my life" is a good selling point. I mean for the country you'd like to join.

Not to mention offhandedly referring to citizenship in said country as a "paper."

Also, not to mention that when you become a citizen, the country you'd like to continue loving is no longer "your" country. You have a new one.

I'm not arguing against NEVER changing citizenship. But I am arguing against it for the sake of convenience or athletic expediency.

I think at least some athletes are allowed to keep both

 

[chameleon]

Most athletes are getting dual citizenship, save for those from countries that don't allow it like Kavaguti who had to give up Japanese citizenship.

People feel a variety of ways about citizenship and what that means to them.

 

[4everchan]

so many people work abroad for a few years, especially to better their career upon perhaps returning to their home country... why not skaters? I am Canadian, I see many Canadian skaters skating for other countries... I wish they would skate for Canada but there is no room here for all of them, so if they get other "work" opportunities, in pairs and dance especially, why not?

 

[TontoK]

I think at least some athletes are allowed to keep both

I suppose that's true. Here's a relevant Wikipedia article, and it appears the rules wildly vary around the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

Notably, as far as American citizenship goes, " United States requires applicants for naturalization to swear to an oath renouncing all prior "allegiance and fidelity" to any other nation or sovereignty as part of the naturalization ceremony."

 

[TontoK]

so many people work abroad for a few years, especially to better their career upon perhaps returning to their home country... why not skaters? I am Canadian, I see many Canadian skaters skating for other countries... I wish they would skate for Canada but there is no room here for all of them, so if they get other "work" opportunities, in pairs and dance especially, why not?

"Working abroad for a few years" is not the same as "renouncing your allegiance and fidelity" to your homeland (US Naturalization oath).

Canadians (and all others) who obtain American citizenship must swear this oath.

For me, that would be a VERY big deal. In fact, it would be a deal-breaker.

But, as I said in my first post on this thread, I am extremely proud to be an American and I value my citizenship a great deal.

 

[winky97]

"Working abroad for a few years" is not the same as "renouncing your allegiance and fidelity" to your homeland (US Naturalization oath).

Canadians (and all others) who obtain American citizenship must swear this oath.

For me, that would be a VERY big deal. In fact, it would be a deal-breaker.

But, as I said in my first post on this thread, I am extremely proud to be an American and I value my citizenship a great deal.

For what it's worth, I tend to agree with you. Maybe I might understand if I were an athlete, but as I sit here, it would be extremely difficult for me to stand under another country's flag and be all proud listening to another country's anthem in the name of my win all in the name of sport. It seems that this happens more and more now.

 

[tennisguy]

The easier solution to this seems to be to get the IOC to change it rules regarding citizenship changed (they are outdated, and represent a different era of sport) and allow the sports federations to determine who is eligible to compete for which country. If an athlete can compete on a regular basis in international competition for a country, citizen or not, they should be able to compete at the Olympics.

 

[4everchan]

"Working abroad for a few years" is not the same as "renouncing your allegiance and fidelity" to your homeland (US Naturalization oath).

Canadians (and all others) who obtain American citizenship must swear this oath.

For me, that would be a VERY big deal. In fact, it would be a deal-breaker.

But, as I said in my first post on this thread, I am extremely proud to be an American and I value my citizenship a great deal.

well... maybe it's a generation or cultural thing... we don't have military service in canada for instance.... many of us also don't really think the queen is all that cool,unless she is on small pieces of paper that allow us to buy stuff.

 

[Moxiejan]

And you also have to consider that countries who earned spots via Worlds must confirm if they accept those spots by September 15th (so unused spots can be reallocated at Nebelhorn 2 weeks later), and countries that earn spots at Nebelhorn have to accept those by October 30th.

Shortly after Worlds, I read somewhere that there is some ambiguousness with the rule that if a country can't use a spot (such as a French pair without proper citizenship), that spot always will be awarded at the qualifying event (Nebelhorn this year).

Evidently, it is stated clearly that in cases in which all other countries that earned multiple spots at Worlds would be able to use them, the "unused" spot would be allocated later at the qualifying event (Nebelhorn this year). HOWEVER, there is nothing in writing about cases such as the U.S. pairs, which earned two spots but so far will only have one spot for Olympics.

Does anyone else remember reading something like this?

 

[TontoK]

well... maybe it's a generation or cultural thing... we don't have military service in canada for instance.... many of us also don't really think the queen is all that cool,unless she is on small pieces of paper that allow us to buy stuff.

Really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Armed_Forces

Setting that aside... and I know this is personal, and I understand if you don't want to reply...

You've always struck me as someone who is proud to be Canadian. And I sincerely respect that.

Would it really be no big deal for you to renounce, under oath, your "allegiance and fidelity" to Canada?

I don't suppose I can say I'd NEVER renounce my American Citizenship, although I can't think of a plausible reason. But it certainly wouldn't be done lightly. It would be a very big deal.

 

[Moxiejan]

Looking at the law now, unless Mervin has held a green card five years in advance of whenever the IOC requires athletes to be citizens of their country, and has been continually residing in the United States in those five years, and at least lives in the address in which he is using on his naturalization application for some time (I think 3 months), he won't have U.S. citizenship for 2022 either. I understand he wants to train in Montreal and Marissa was ok with that because she felt she didn't need to go to another Olympics at the time, but if they are actively seeking citizenship now because they changed their mind on that, I fear it's already too late for 2022.

Oh, sigh. Why, why, why didn't Marissa choose Nate Bartholomay, who also was available when she picked Mervin? I can understand why her tryout didn't work out with Timothy LeDuc (different lines and styles), but just look at Nate's partnering at 2017 Nationals and imagine Marissa in those lifts ... as I said, sigh. Maybe the international assignments that USFS made after Nationals were messages to both Marissa and Nate.