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- Jan 9, 2017
Pairs & Dance Teams with Citizenship Issues
- Thread starter Weathergal
- Start date
Vanessa James has held French citizenship since 2009...as well as Canadian [where she was born], overseas British-by-descent [Bermudan father], and could have applied for US as she is a permanent resident.
No, I was asking about the two teams who are seeking France's second Olympic spot. Last I heard, both have citizenship issues.
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- Dec 22, 2010
Angelique has her citizenship and passport now.
Marie-Jade has not at the current moment got her passport. I have no idea if she will get it in time.
I think it will be difficult for her to get the passport through normal channels as she is not resident in France.
The only way I can see her getting it, is if it is done through the Ministry of Sport channels, as was done Vanessa's citizenship.
Though at least Vanessa was living in France at that time.
What's the situation for second spot in Pairs? Do Andrei Novoselov or Pavel Kovalev have French citizenship or are they likely to get it?
Really ? ONE exception ? This is an excellent team we're talking about. WHY ??! Denmark is always doig very well in Winter sports, why not add figure skating to the map ?
:dev2:
If France does not use its second Olympic spot, the second spot should go to the U.S. The allocation rule states that the U.S. can't use the second spot it earned IF doing so would cause the number of spots from Worlds to exceed the number. But if France uses only one, that no longer would be the case.
The rule about extra spots being allocated at Nebelhorn is if the max wasn't earned at Worlds.
Unfortunately, the ISU rules don't clearly address the current situation.
Well, I am sad; but really, this isn't one exception you are talking about. If it was accepted, then athletes from other countries with a difficult citizenship process--such as Japan--would use the same system, would they not?
I could be wrong, but my impression is that the IOC is only likely to grant this type of exception under very serious circumstances. For example, being a war refugee.
F-B&S are certainly good enough to compete. And I do feel that they deserve to have a process available to them by which they can both train & work their way towards Danish citizenship. But I think they would need to make their case in Denmark. Not via the International Olympic Committee.
Or possibly explore the idea of skating for Canada.
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- Jul 31, 2014
If France does not use a spot I would say the only sure thing is that it will get argued and possibly litigated as to where the other spot goes. The rules are not clear and I feel the USFSA should at least raise the argument that USA should get the spot. I also do think that if it did go to some kind of court to be decided that USFSA could make a pretty convincing argument that they are first in line. The spots were clearly eared by USA as evidenced by having two spots for worlds.
To be clear I am not talking about taking a spot from Nebelhorn. I want to protect those four spots with pitchforks. But if a spot opens up... I do feel as though the USA has already earned it and should get it over another spot at Nebelhorn.
If a spot does open up... I do hope that USFSA pushes the issue to the point of getting final clarification for the future though... even if the fifth spot goes to Nebelhorn (Which i am sure would still lovely) I hope that we can at least get more clear rules for the future. I rather wish the rules had been clear from the start... many a forum users saw the math before their eyes... this could have been handled better.
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whatever the rules are... i have a feeling that France doesn't have any interest in letting a 2nd american team compete as the american teams, with great performances are a threat for all the middle teams in the games.... so I would say that to protect Vannessa and Morgan, the French fed should make sure they used the spot, unless they are 100% sure it will not go to the USA... (i thought we had discussed those rules with Chemistry somewhere and she/he explained how the USA couldn't fetch any more spots but maybe it's my imagination)
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- Jul 31, 2014
Which is another reason why the rules should be more clear... either way I'd like more clear rules.
I also highly doubt France will give up the spot, they will find a way to fill it I suspect and I am perfectly fine with that. It is theirs to fill.
With Tessa/Scott and WeaPo probably retiring after 2018, this could work...
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- Mar 7, 2015
well i would be happy to welcome Sorensen
in the Canadian family of very good looking and talented ice dancers.
I'm actually not sure they could. I don't think Denmark would release them easily(even if they can't go to the Olympics, participation at other internationals is still important). And doesn't the ISU have some rule about not letting tiny Feds be wiped out like that? F-B/S are Denmark's only internationally competitive skaters. Plus, as a trailblazer for his country, Sorensen likely feels strongly about representing Denmark, and I believe she's been working hard studying Danish, so I doubt she takes this lightly either. I really hope that something can be done for 2022, at least.
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- Mar 7, 2015
of course... first, there is a period of time before they would not be able to compete for any other country.
Denmark though, if they won't release them, should do a better job in allowing them to get them competing at the games. Yes, the citizenship is difficult to get but they are a couple off the ice, she is learning Danish, which is pretty commendable as it's not only difficult for a French speaker but it's also pretty "useless" outside of Denmark.
The only issue is that they train in Canada... but let's put it this way... if two citizens of Denmark had that kind of talent and wanted to train overseas, they could still participate to the games... Denmark here is too rigid because they cannot provide a proper training environment for an elite dance team... so they shouldn't hold that against them.
It's a very different situation from let's say a guy like Mervin Tran who simply doesn't want to leave his coaching team based in Canada thought there are suitable options for training in the USA.
And yes, they will perhaps get their citizenship in time (F-B/S) for 2022... by then, they will be at their peak... but who knows, perhaps the lack of experience at the games will hinder them.
I really enjoy their skating and I hope the best for them.
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- Aug 12, 2014
I really love the team of Laurence and Nikolaj, wish them the best, and dearly wish we could see them at 2018 Olympics. "Making history representing Denmark for five years." So true! And doing it with their own style, IMO somewhat going against trend.
All I can say is, my spouse got his uncommonly rigid side straight from his 100% Danish-American grandfather.
It's perfectly traceable.
Having said that, I also dearly wish there were some way of easing Laurence's path to citizenship in time. Looking at a bigger picture -- the history of Denmark as a country -- I can see how they might feel their rigidity, and not conforming to other countries' shoulds, has been a factor in their country remaining independent. And there's much I admire and love about Denmark.
Very true. I've about come to the conclusion that Marissa and Mervin may not actually be trying for 2022 Olympics, either, which is basically what she said in their TSL interview in 2015. Marissa said she wanted to be a world-class skater again, and felt she could do that with Mervin. She'd already been to the Olympics and accomplished more with Simon than she'd expected.
ETA: unless they're waiting for D/R to retire and thinking to compete for Canada. Which wish, or path, would involve daunting challenges of its own.
All I can say is, my spouse got his uncommonly rigid side straight from his 100% Danish-American grandfather.
It's perfectly traceable. Having said that, I also dearly wish there were some way of easing Laurence's path to citizenship in time. Looking at a bigger picture -- the history of Denmark as a country -- I can see how they might feel their rigidity, and not conforming to other countries' shoulds, has been a factor in their country remaining independent. And there's much I admire and love about Denmark.
Very true. I've about come to the conclusion that Marissa and Mervin may not actually be trying for 2022 Olympics, either, which is basically what she said in their TSL interview in 2015. Marissa said she wanted to be a world-class skater again, and felt she could do that with Mervin. She'd already been to the Olympics and accomplished more with Simon than she'd expected.
ETA: unless they're waiting for D/R to retire and thinking to compete for Canada. Which wish, or path, would involve daunting challenges of its own.
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- Mar 7, 2015
I really love the team of Laurence and Nikolaj, wish them the best, and dearly wish we could see them at 2018 Olympics. "Making history representing Denmark for five years." So true! And doing it with their own style, IMO somewhat going against trend.
All I can say is, my spouse got his uncommonly rigid side straight from his 100% Danish-American grandfather.
Having said that, I also dearly wish there were some way of easing Laurence's path to citizenship in time. Looking at a bigger picture -- the history of Denmark as a country -- I can see how they might feel their rigidity, and not conforming to other countries' shoulds, has been a factor in their country remaining independent. And there's much I admire and love about Denmark.
Very true. I've about come to the conclusion that Marissa and Mervin may not actually be trying for 2022 Olympics, either, which is basically what she said in their TSL interview in 2015. Marissa said she wanted to be a world-class skater again, and felt she could do that with Mervin. She'd already been to the Olympics and accomplished more with Simon than she'd expected.
ETA: unless they're waiting for D/R to retire and thinking to compete for Canada. Which wish, or path, would involve daunting challenges of its own.
HAHA but i met a very very open minded man from Denmark. But mind you, he had been living in Canada for many years. An incredible and inspiring human being, kind and easy going.
I see what you mean, being a small country next to giants.
I just think that considering Laurence's situation, the fact that they are a couple, she is learning Dansih, and that quite frankly Denmark could use a good figure skating team, they should help her out a bit and make an exception.... in the end, after their career, there is a chance that they would both move to Denmark and live there happily and bring back to the country.... it's not the case with all these teams who are not off-ice couples ....
When D/R retires, there will be already 4-5 teams willing to grab their spot ... I think Mervin will not skate for Canada ever again.
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- Aug 12, 2014
Yes, and actually my husband is also a very open minded man. The particular type of stubbornness only surfaces rarely, but it's recognizable in his mother and grandfather. And I observed the same "doubling down" behavior in my son from toddlerhood; it seemed genetic. LOL. I must also tell you that said son is also an incredible and inspiring human being, kind and easy going! The usual toddler stubbornness was just qualitatively different from what I observed in my other three children.
I'm not a fan of stereotyping, and I certainly didn't intend that. I guess I need to use thewhen I'm being truthful and also a little facetious.
Totally Agree.
That's the daunting challenge that I mentioned.
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