Pairs FS Worldwide: The Divine Discipline

[Olympic]

I think that K/F have exciting potential. I am encouraged by the surprisingly high TES they received from an ISU panel this past month to qualify for Worlds. I predict if they skate as expected, they will be competitive w/ MT/M and P/J.

Speaking of MT/M, I like their speed, edging and devotion to their programs. She is a diva of sorts.

I don't have a strong opinion on P/J. They are a highly qualified Chinese team who work within their abilities and usually deliver. But they IMO aren't world-beaters

I suppose S/H are in shape if they were named by the Chinese fed. to compete. Either that or the Chinese desperately want to maintain 3 spots and don't believe that P/J and the lower-ranked teams can do the job. It has happened before ... I would like to see them skate well because 1) I find podium sweeps uninteresting, and 2) they are a class act who show that male -> female size ratio are not necessary to deliver technically demanding programs or do a 4 twist.

Russians are coming. I liked what I saw from B/K pre-pandemic and I am proud of T/M for their perseverance. M/G deserve a lot of credit for upping the tech ante. It means the only team that can beat a Russian sweep are S/H.

As far as 3 spots for the US, it looks like DM/G are still rebuilding off of an injury and bad luck, the top German and North Korean teams will miss 2021 Worlds, and I think CG/L on an average day are better than the Austrians. But it would take both K/F and CG/L beating a team like MT/M and P/J to finish 6th and 7th, or K/F beating both and CG/L finishing just behind. Maybe a newer Russian team has a really bad day at Worlds but that is unlikely. In summation, possible but not highly likely

 

[Fanou]

I could see Sui & Han retiring after Beijing—especially if they do well there—and Peng & Jin continuing on, at least for a bit. Chinese pairs seem to have exceptionally long careers!

But, as much as I enjoy Peng & Jin, they will always have many brilliant Russian pairs to contend with.

Yes, that's very true Chinese pairs have long careers, longer than anyone else it seems. Usually their top 3 teams remain the same for a few years, when that change more often in Russia (or even in the US). That must be hard mentally for the top teams in Russia, the constant pressure of younger teams. That pressure I think is stronger now than ever before... It's very difficult to imagine a Russian pair having an extra long career like Shen/Zhao or Pang/Tong... We will see how long B/K or M/G can last...

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Since I use cyrillic a lot (I am trying to learn Russian - not seriously, at quite a leisurely pace) now I installed a cyrillic option on my keyboard.

Did you buy keyboard stickers with the cyrillic letters for your keyboard? I also write in cyrillic to practise Russian, and I'm fine with the virtual keyboard on my phone that can be switched between Roman and Cyrillic, but on my laptop I simply can't remember where the letters are supposed to be and I haven't yet figured out a solution apart from buying stickers for my keys. But maybe I'm overlooking a really simple work-around?

So, pairs lovers, who are your favorite teams, and how do you think the new landscape in pairs is shaping up?

To get back on topic, I will out myself here (and probably show my age, lol) as an utterly devoted Totmianina/Marinin fangirl. I know many people didn't connect with them at all and found their skating, while technically sound, to be rather uninspiring. But for me they were my first great figure skating love (together with Plushenko in men's singles) and they'll always have a special place in my heart. Their SBS jumps were amazingly consistent and far ahead of their competition and they had this kind of signature death spiral where Maxim turned to face away from Tatiana in pivot position. I couldn't get enough of it, I even used to record all their competitions when they were shown in some late night recaps of Grand Prix events on Eurosport, before I discovered skating videos on youtube and vk.
Of the current pairs, of course I support my fellow Austrians Miriam Ziegler and Severin Kiefer. Their new programs this season look very promising and I hope they'll make top ten at worlds. Though I fear they will call it quits with skating after the Olympics 2022 (it will be Miriam's fourth Olympics )...
I'm also very fond of the current crop of Russian pairs, especially M/G, T/M, and B/K. They each have something special about them, and I couldn't tell you which of them I like best, they are all just stunning! Worlds 2021 will be such a treat!

 

[anonymoose_au]

Those who know me here will also know I'm a massive T/M fangirl. I can't even say why, at first I didn't notice them But then I saw their Music FS and the music was so cheesey and the costumes so 80s, but their skating technique was amazing and I just found them so charming! I thought the Glam SP was brilliant.

And while they don't show much personaity on the ice, I still find myself drawn to them. Vladimir especially, for some reason I find him really endearing. I know he doesn't show much emotion and all that, but I dunno, I'm just drawn to them. They've tried skating to a lot of different kinds of music which I respect them for. A lot of skaters find their comfort zone music-wise, which is fine, but I feel like I'm on a journey with T/M.

My second favourite pair is Peng/Jin, they're just so charming. I love their My Drag program, the opening choreography always makes me laugh, Jin's face I'm really looking forward to seeing more of them and I was thrilled that they won Cup of China this season.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk

 

[Dawn825]

Vladimir especially, for some reason I find him really endearing. I know he doesn't show much emotion and all that, but I dunno, I'm just drawn to them.

I feel the opposite, that Evgenia always looks like she's trying harder so I appreciate her more. But to each his own

My second favourite pair is Peng/Jin, they're just so charming.

I fell in love with them with their charming Ophelia SP, I wish they would do another program like that or bring it back. I love their Cloud Atlas too.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think CG/L on an average day are better than the Austrians. But it would take both K/F and CG/L beating a team like MT/M and P/J to finish 6th and 7th, or K/F beating both and CG/L finishing just behind. Maybe a newer Russian team has a really bad day at Worlds but that is unlikely. In summation, possible but not highly likely

Not impossible, but we don't know what's going to happen. It's been an unusual year, so anything is possible at Worlds. Regarding the Russians, I haven't seen the most recent competitions, but Mishina/ Galliamov were not on during Russian Nationals. I'd heard they were given the third Worlds spot for Russia. Overall, M/G are better matched aesthetically and probably thereby have more winning potential than Pavliuchenko/Khodykin who beat M/G at Russian Nationals.

Let's keep in mind that this will be M/G's Worlds debut and they are still young and inexperienced, which of course doesn't mean they won't bring their A-game. Plus, Russian pairs generally just have to show up and the judges throw points at them on the basis of reputation rather than overall talent and performance value. We saw that from the judges with Zabiiako/ Enbert who had sublime lines and good technique (as many Russian teams tend to have), but Z/E had general inconsistencies and lacked personality and connection. Still, Z/E always tended to be over-scored based mainly on Russian pairs rep.

M/G's ace-in-the-hole of course is Moskvina, who is a miracle worker. It was Moskvina who helped the U.S. team, Ina/Zimmerman, win the last U.S. pairs medal at Worlds in 2002. M/G used to be rather robotic with no connection or personality. Moskvina has been helping M/G to connect better and to bring out more of their personality with some engaging choreography. But M/G still need more experience and consistency. Probably M/G are in better condition after I believe he had to recover from COVID, and they had seemingly lost some training time.

As far as Tarasova/Morosov, we'll see. At times, T/M can be vulnerable too. But for sure, even when Russian teams and some Chinese teams aren't at their best, the judges still tend to throw them high scores. So rep and politics always factor into the scoring. Boikova/Koslovskii are a very likeable team because they have a lot of personality and connection, but they aren't as classically aesthetic a match as M/G and T/M. Still, B/K made a statement competitively during 2019-2020 season and their rep quotient is high.

Moore-Towers/Marinaro are scrappy competitors and they have the advantage of being together for awhile and having good rep with the judges and good politicking from SC backing them up. They are enjoyable to watch, but they don't have a lot of competition under their belts this season, so we'll see how fit and ready they are. I'm sure they will be prepared and they will hold some advantage with the judges. Still, I think that Knierim/Frazier (although a new team) are veteran competitors with overall better quality elements and excitement as a team than M-T/M. It's just a matter of who brings it in the moment and whether the judges will factor in rep and politics more-so if both teams skate well.

Also, Cain-Gribble/LeDuc can perform extremely well if they are at peak fitness and confidence level. They have some weapons but they have to bring it with confidence and their usual pizzazz. The Chinese teams will be a question mark, but they will probably score well. Peng/Jin haven't yet delivered consistently though they tend to be a favorite of the judges. It remains to be seen whether Sui/Han are both recovered physically and in peak form. I wouldn't bet against S/H because they usually deliver on sheer strength of will, even when they aren't in peak form. I didn't like S/H's programs in 2019 - 2020. And they were very inconsistent performance-wise. Perhaps having a lot of time to rest and reboot will be in their favor. S/H's technical strengths are undeniable and they are engaging at their best, but they've never been one of my favorite pairs teams.

I don't think it's a given that all of the Russian teams will skate better than both U.S. teams. If any of the Russian teams don't skate well, P/J and M-T/M could have an advantage or K/F and C-G/L could sneak in there somewhere and take advantage. Let's say that all the 3 Russian, 2 Chinese and 1 Canadian teams skate well. That doesn't mean that at least K/F couldn't still rival any one of those teams at their best. The only disadvantage if K/F skate well, would be how the judges view them politically, since they are a new team together. To their advantage is the fact that K/F are well known internationally with their former partners, so they should be received well together as a new team, if they skate well.

Anything is possible for the U.S. teams with any combination of placements, even if the final outcome doesn't achieve the magic 13. Still, more hopefully placements of 6, 7 and even 5, 8 are certainly possible. No matter what happens, I wish U.S. teams well. It will be a very good learning experience for both U.S. teams. I hope they have fun and do their best.

 

[Olympic]

Not impossible, but we don't know what's going to happen. It's been an unusual year, so anything is possible at Worlds. Regarding the Russians, I haven't seen the most recent competitions, but Mishina/ Galliamov were not on during Russian Nationals. I'd heard they were given the third Worlds spot for Russia. Overall, M/G are better matched aesthetically and probably thereby have more winning potential than Pavliuchenko/Khodykin who beat M/G at Russian Nationals.

Let's keep in mind that this will be M/G's Worlds debut and they are still young and inexperienced, which of course doesn't mean they won't bring their A-game. Plus, Russian pairs generally just have to show up and the judges throw points at them on the basis of reputation rather than overall talent and performance value. We saw that from the judges with Zabiiako/ Enbert who had sublime lines and good technique (as many Russian teams tend to have), but Z/E had general inconsistencies and lacked personality and connection. Still, Z/E always tended to be over-scored based mainly on Russian pairs rep.

M/G's ace-in-the-hole of course is Moskvina, who is a miracle worker. It was Moskvina who helped the U.S. team, Ina/Zimmerman, win the last U.S. pairs medal at Worlds in 2002. M/G used to be rather robotic with no connection or personality. Moskvina has been helping M/G to connect better and to bring out more of their personality with some engaging choreography. But M/G still need more experience and consistency. Probably M/G are in better condition after I believe he had to recover from COVID, and they had seemingly lost some training time.

As far as Tarasova/Morosov, we'll see. At times, T/M can be vulnerable too. But for sure, even when Russian teams and some Chinese teams aren't at their best, the judges still tend to throw them high scores. So rep and politics always factor into the scoring. Boikova/Koslovskii are a very likeable team because they have a lot of personality and connection, but they aren't as classically aesthetic a match as M/G and T/M. Still, B/K made a statement competitively during 2019-2020 season and their rep quotient is high.

Moore-Towers/Marinaro are scrappy competitors and they have the advantage of being together for awhile and having good rep with the judges and good politicking from SC backing them up. They are enjoyable to watch, but they don't have a lot of competition under their belts this season, so we'll see how fit and ready they are. I'm sure they will be prepared and they will hold some advantage with the judges. Still, I think that Knierim/Frazier (although a new team) are veteran competitors with overall better quality elements and excitement as a team than M-T/M. It's just a matter of who brings it in the moment and whether the judges will factor in rep and politics more-so if both teams skate well.

Also, Cain-Gribble/LeDuc can perform extremely well if they are at peak fitness and confidence level. They have some weapons but they have to bring it with confidence and their usual pizzazz. The Chinese teams will be a question mark, but they will probably score well. Peng/Jin haven't yet delivered consistently though they tend to be a favorite of the judges. It remains to be seen whether Sui/Han are both recovered physically and in peak form. I wouldn't bet against S/H because they usually deliver on sheer strength of will, even when they aren't in peak form. I didn't like S/H's programs in 2019 - 2020. And they were very inconsistent performance-wise. Perhaps having a lot of time to rest and reboot will be in their favor. S/H's technical strengths are undeniable and they are engaging at their best, but they've never been one of my favorite pairs teams.

I don't think it's a given that all of the Russian teams will skate better than both U.S. teams. If any of the Russian teams don't skate well, P/J and M-T/M could have an advantage or K/F and C-G/L could sneak in there somewhere and take advantage. Let's say that all the 3 Russian, 2 Chinese and 1 Canadian teams skate well. That doesn't mean that at least K/F couldn't still rival any one of those teams at their best. The only disadvantage if K/F skate well, would be how the judges view them politically, since they are a new team together. To their advantage is the fact that K/F are well known internationally with their former partners, so they should be received well together as a new team, if they skate well.

Anything is possible for the U.S. teams with any combination of placements, even if the final outcome doesn't achieve the magic 13. Still, more hopefully placements of 6, 7 and even 5, 8 are certainly possible. No matter what happens, I wish U.S. teams well. It will be a very good learning experience for both U.S. teams. I hope they have fun and do their best.

I forgot about Della Monica / Guarise. But I understood that they weren't exactly in peak form lately. Also, the top GER and PRK pairs won't be at Worlds which on paper gives CG/L some breathing space.

I may have mentioned it but their twist and throw Z both looked darn good at Nationals for once! Tim especially really seemed super fit at Nationals.

I also agree that K/F have the capability to compete with MT/M and P/J head-to-head but could be held back by lack of standing as a pair internationally. It would be nice if they laid it down: They could finish high and get those 3 spots w/ support of decent performances by CG/L

 

[ladyjane]

I wish all pairs well this WC, but to me it seems quite possible for the US teams to get 3 spots (and if they don't it's not a disaster - they'll definitely keep two), even with the Russian pairs skating well and the Chinese too. Top 5 with 2 Russians, 2 Chinese and one of the Canadians, 6 and 7 for the Americans, 8 and 9 for the Italians and a Russian pair is not such a bad prediction. Of course, I'm also hoping Annika and Robert from Germany skate well. Having seen all the Russians doing well this year (M/G only had a bad outing at their Nationals) I wouldn't be surprised if they will all three be in the top 5 which would make it more difficult for the Americans to get these 3 spots, but ice is slippery! Luckily for me I have no specific pair to root for except that 'my own' pair will be able to skate the Free Skate, but with regard to the Chinese, Canadians, Italians, Russians and Americans I am just hoping they all will have great skates, whatever the eventual outcome.

 

[Dawn825]

Does anyone know what Sui/Han will be skating to?

 

[ladyjane]

Does anyone know what Sui/Han will be skating to?

I wish I did. I haven't the faintest idea.

 

[FayD]

Does anyone know what Sui/Han will be skating to?

Someone posted in the Team China thread a while ago that they'll be bringing back Blues for Klook SP and keep the RIYBE FS.

2020-21 Team China Updates

even though sui/han are on the list coc, i doubt they would be able to show up.... hope cong can take time to recover rather than hurry to show up....

www.goldenskate.com

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Someone posted in the Team China thread a while ago that they'll be bringing back Blues for Klook SP and keep the RIYBE FS.

2020-21 Team China Updates

even though sui/han are on the list coc, i doubt they would be able to show up.... hope cong can take time to recover rather than hurry to show up....

www.goldenskate.com

Yes, their FS wasn't bad. It was their sp last season I didn't think was that great. But they also were uncharacteristically inconsistent at some competitions. With rest, they will probably be ready at Worlds, with their eyes dead set on winning gold in Beijing. And the Russian teams will likely have the most chance to take the gold from them in Sweden and in Beijing. However, politically, if S/H skate well and being in their home country for the Olympics, it's more of a certainty they would be rewarded. I'd like to see something unexpected happen. But when they are on, S/H are captivating. It would be nice if they are fit and have really good programs though if they win in 2022.

 

[skylark]

Not impossible, but we don't know what's going to happen. It's been an unusual year, so anything is possible at Worlds. Regarding the Russians, I haven't seen the most recent competitions, but Mishina/ Galliamov were not on during Russian Nationals. I'd heard they were given the third Worlds spot for Russia. Overall, M/G are better matched aesthetically and probably thereby have more winning potential than Pavliuchenko/Khodykin who beat M/G at Russian Nationals.

M/G were brilliant at both the Team event and Russian Final Cup. At the latter, they'd moved their 3S-Eul-3S to open the program, I'm sure because it had been giving them trouble. I adore this couple. One of the things I think Tamara Moskvina has done is create for them a lot of complementary movements, where they're doing different small movements but the overall effect is so interesting visually, and of course Moskvina has always liked creating interesting shapes with pairs. Even if she made those choreographic touches, M/G are the ones who have to execute them, which they do with aplomb. Such transition elements add complexity and difficulty, and it seems to me they also say something about their connection and personality. Anastasia, in particular, seems to be fine and happy with Sasha getting an equal share of viewers' attention ... but he never overshadows her, either. Their SP lift is really something. He is one strong young man. Having said that, it's the sum of all these parts that makes them so outstanding and engaging, to me. Also having said that, T/M have that classical look that judges love.

Some skaters find their national championships to be the most psychologically challenging. (Katia Gordeeva said in a TSL interview a couple of years ago that she and Sergei did). I wonder if that has been operating with M/G. It puts them at a disadvantage relative to T/M and B/K, who both gained strength through the season to do great at nationals. Well, the Russians are making the pre-Worlds guessing game more fun!

Also, Cain-Gribble/LeDuc can perform extremely well if they are at peak fitness and confidence level. They have some weapons but they have to bring it with confidence and their usual pizzazz.

All of which I'm hoping for and am so looking forward to. I would love to see them truly vindicate themselves well (and surprise their critics!) after the struggles they've had for the last year and a half. From their IG accounts, they both look to be in tip-top shape. They look confident and ready. https://www.instagram.com/p/CMhzOc9jlDL/

I don't think it's a given that all of the Russian teams will skate better than both U.S. teams. If any of the Russian teams don't skate well, P/J and M-T/M could have an advantage or K/F and C-G/L could sneak in there somewhere and take advantage. Let's say that all the 3 Russian, 2 Chinese and 1 Canadian teams skate well. ....

Anything is possible for the U.S. teams with any combination of placements, even if the final outcome doesn't achieve the magic 13. Still, more hopefully placements of 6, 7 and even 5, 8 are certainly possible. No matter what happens, I wish U.S. teams well. It will be a very good learning experience for both U.S. teams. I hope they have fun and do their best.

100%. I can't believe how antsy I'm getting for Worlds. I can't wait!

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Even if she made those choreographic touches, M/G are the ones who have to execute them, which they do with aplomb. Such transition elements add complexity and difficulty, and it seems to me they also say something about their connection and personality. Anastasia, in particular, seems to be fine and happy with Sasha getting an equal share of viewers' attention ... but he never overshadows her, either. Their SP lift is really something. He is one strong young man. Having said that, it's the sum of all these parts that makes them so outstanding and engaging, to me. Also having said that, T/M have that classical look that judges love.

I have not previously been that enamored of Mishina/Galliamov. Even now, they have more to do and more to prove before I'm gonna get overly excited about them. It is their move to getting essential and crucial help from Moskvina that has gotten my attention. That's because Moskvina is a miracle worker. I imagine she has to believe in the skaters she works with, and then draw their abilities out of them. TSL recently made a montage of past interviews with Moskvina (chiefly with Tracy Wilson asking her questions over the years). It was interesting and brought back some memories, because I can vaguely remember seeing these interviews in real time. Over a certain period of years in the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s, I never missed watching major figure skating competitions, i.e., Olympics, Worlds, and U.S. Nationals. Moskvina hasn't changed with her wit and wisdom. I think TSL has also recently posted a new interview with Moskvina, which I haven't seen yet.

In any case, Moskvina is the miracle worker, in my opinion. If you catch the montage, you will see her speaking about Mishketunok/Dmitriev at the 1994 Olympics where they were having some problems in practice (maybe related to injury or just confidence issues). In any case, Moskvina was talking about looking into their eyes and hypnotizing them before the competition started. LOL They came out and skated amazing. Of course, they still placed second to returning faves, Gordeeva/Grinkov (even with a slight falter by Grinkov on a jump landing). M/D, of course, were the 1992 Olympic pairs champions.

I mention this to point out that without Moskvina, I don't think M/G would have improved quite as quickly as they have. They're still young and growing. And once again, their biggest problem, in my estimation, has been a lack of connection and no excitement (at least none for me) in their skating. You could see their minds working on what comes next, instead of them exhibiting effortless flow and personality. Under Moskvina's tutelage, M/G are light years better in those weak areas of their skating. Moskvina just has vision, creativity, strength of will, and the ability to hypnotize. LOL In other words, she can pull ability out of skaters. I don't know how she does it, but it's obviously her skill in seeing what they have in them to give. And then being able to create different patterns and unique choreographic sequences that are engaging and specific to the skaters she's working with. This can camouflage weaknesses, while maximizing strengths. Overall, Moskvina has the knack of giving her charges huge amounts of confidence and also calm under competitive conditions.

Upshot: Moskvina has given M/G much more than 'choreographic touches.' Their current transformation goes beyond that. Sure, M/G have to execute difficult moves seamlessly. But it is Moskvina who gave them the confidence. It is Moskvina who has seen what's in them and pulled it out of them. She has helped them to be able to express a bit of their personalities and to interact more easily and engagingly with each other on the ice, rather than just rapping off technical moves robotically, anxiously or tentatively (which is what they did previously IMO).

 

[Miriam090]

I have not previously been that enamored of Mishina/Galliamov. Even now, they have more to do and more to prove before I'm gonna get overly excited about them. It is their move to getting essential and crucial help from Moskvina that has gotten my attention. That's because Moskvina is a miracle worker. I imagine she has to believe in the skaters she works with, and then draw their abilities out of them. TSL recently made a montage of past interviews with Moskvina (chiefly with Tracy Wilson asking her questions over the years). It was interesting and brought back some memories, because I can vaguely remember seeing these interviews in real time. Over a certain period of years in the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s, I never missed watching major figure skating competitions, i.e., Olympics, Worlds, and U.S. Nationals. Moskvina hasn't changed with her wit and wisdom. I think TSL has also recently posted an interview with Moskvina, which I haven't seen yet.

In any case, Moskvina is the miracle worker, in my opinion. If you catch the montage, you will see her speaking about Mishketunok/Dmitriev at the 1994 Olympics where they were having some problems in practice (maybe related to injury or just confidence issues). In any case, Moskvina was talking about looking into their eyes and hypnotizing them before the competition started. LOL They came out and skated amazing. Of course, they still placed second to returning faves, Gordeeva/Grinkov (even with a slight falter by Grinkov on a jump landing). M/D, of course, were the 1992 Olympic pairs champions.

I mention this to point out that without Moskvina, I don't think M/G would have improved quite as quickly as they have. They're still young and growing. And once again, their biggest problem, in my estimation, has been a lack of connection and no excitement (at least none for me) in their skating. You could see their minds working on what comes next, instead of them exhibiting effortless flow and personality. Under Moskvina's tutelage, M/G are light years better in those weak areas of their skating. Moskvina just has vision, creativity, strength of will, and the ability to hypnotize. LOL :lol: In other words, she can pull ability out of skaters. I don't know how she does it, but it's obviously her skill in seeing what they have in them to give. And then being able to create different patterns and unique choreographic sequences that are engaging and specific to the skaters she's working with. This can camouflage weaknesses, while maximizing strengths. Overall, Moskvina has the knack of giving her charges huge amounts of confidence and also calm under competitive conditions.

Upshot: Moskvina has given M/G much more than 'choreographic touches.' Their current transformation goes beyond that. Sure, M/G have to execute difficult moves seamlessly. But it is Moskvina who gave them the confidence. It is Moskvina who has seen what's in them and pulled it out of them. She helped them to be able to express themselves and to interact more with each other on the ice, rather than just rapping off technical moves robotically, anxiously or tentatively (which is what they did previously IMO).

I totally agree that Moskvina has transformed M/G, but it's still M/G who's out there on the ice doing everything she's taught them so I feel they at least deserve some credit. That's any coaches job - to draw out the potential and talent of their skaters, but the skater themself still has to have it inside them in the first place. Clearly she saw their potential to accept them into her school in the first place.

Their short program this season is one of my favourites ever, not only for the choreography but their expressions throughout, the way the perform it and of course their technical excellence is what really brings it to life.

 

[ladyjane]

I remember seeing Alexandra and Dmitrii for the first time (to my joy!) and then Dmitrii hugging this little woman (whom I knew from championships years in the past), and I just started crying. Stupid, silly maybe, but this woman always moves me. I don't care how she does it, whether by hypnotising skaters or just by convincing them of her ideas, but she creates miracles. Of course the skaters have to feel it too and, eventually, obviously, have to execute good skates. But, boy, is this woman a legend!

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

^^ @Miriam090, what you have said is actually essentially what I said in my previous post.

You may not think I'm giving M/G enough credit, but so be it. Obviously, I did give them credit. Of course, M/G are the ones who have to do it on the ice. But they're able to do it because Moskvina saw this talent in them and helped bring it out of them in a transformative way. Maybe you knew M/G's personalities previously, but I didn't. All I had the opportunity to see is their major competitions. I never saw them being interviewed until recently, at which point I got a view of their personalities and I understood a little bit of the people they are behind the stiff expressions and inconsistent efforts they've had on the ice previously. They've always been very talented technically, but inconsistent and often tentative, without exhibiting much personality. So I wasn't drawn in previously. Good for all those who were.

As I said, I sat up and took more notice when I saw the programs Moskvina created for M/G. Once again, Moskvina has done much more for M/G than just 'choreographic touches.' She sees ability and weakness, gains a grasp of who they are as people, and then she understands how to create magic for them. And, as Moskvina has said, she also prepares her skaters mentally for competition. You can see how they all revere her. Of course, Moskvina is a legend! You may not agree, but IMO, without Moskvina in their corner, M/G would not have these types of programs. They would still be trying to develop slowly with inconsistencies and without showing much connection. The right choreography and the right music are everything, especially for pairs. Plus, you can't put a price on the confidence quotient working with Moskvina provides. *

It's different with every team Moskvina works with, I'm sure. Years ago, she worked miracles for Kavaguti/ Smirnov. K/S were another team I didn't take to right away, though I know they had many fans. I heard the story of Kavaguti dreaming of working Moskvina, and she finally had the opportunity, but it was late for her since she was older and not an ingenue at that point. Plus, Kavaguti had badly bowed legs. K/S were always interesting to watch, but they struggled a lot in terms of consistency. Still, Moskvina appreciated Kavaguti's huge desire. Eventually, Kavaguti underwent an operation to straighten her legs, and she began to gain more consistency and confidence. Their Manfred Symphony program is one of my favorites. They used it three years in a row, and it got better and better. Peter Tchernyshev is credited with the choreo, but surely Moskvina played an important role in the overall creation, and of course training and structure of that program.

* When I saw that Moskvina was working with M/G who are direct rivals to Boikova/Koslovskii, I wondered what impact that would have on B/K. Perhaps it will be good for both teams in pushing each other. We'll see.

 

[PaulE]

In any case, Moskvina is the miracle worker, in my opinion. If you catch the montage, you will see her speaking about Mishketunok/Dmitriev at the 1994 Olympics where they were having some problems in practice (maybe related to injury or just confidence issues). In any case, Moskvina was talking about looking into their eyes and hypnotizing them before the competition started. LOL They came out and skated amazing. Of course, they still placed second to returning faves, Gordeeva/Grinkov (even with a slight falter by Grinkov on a jump landing). M/D, of course, were the 1992 Olympic pairs champions.

I love Moskvina. Here is the clip with Mishkutenok and Dmitriev at the 1994 Olys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYehy9pTNOQ.

 

[skylark]

I have not previously been that enamored of Mishina/Galliamov. Even now, they have more to do and more to prove before I'm gonna get overly excited about them. It is their move to getting essential and crucial help from Moskvina that has gotten my attention. That's because Moskvina is a miracle worker. I imagine she has to believe in the skaters she works with, and then draw their abilities out of them. TSL recently made a montage of past interviews with Moskvina (chiefly with Tracy Wilson asking her questions over the years). It was interesting and brought back some memories, because I can vaguely remember seeing these interviews in real time. Over a certain period of years in the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s, I never missed watching major figure skating competitions, i.e., Olympics, Worlds, and U.S. Nationals. Moskvina hasn't changed with her wit and wisdom. I think TSL has also recently posted a new interview with Moskvina, which I haven't seen yet.

In any case, Moskvina is the miracle worker, in my opinion. If you catch the montage, you will see her speaking about Mishketunok/Dmitriev at the 1994 Olympics where they were having some problems in practice (maybe related to injury or just confidence issues). In any case, Moskvina was talking about looking into their eyes and hypnotizing them before the competition started. LOL They came out and skated amazing. Of course, they still placed second to returning faves, Gordeeva/Grinkov (even with a slight falter by Grinkov on a jump landing). M/D, of course, were the 1992 Olympic pairs champions.

I mention this to point out that without Moskvina, I don't think M/G would have improved quite as quickly as they have. They're still young and growing. And once again, their biggest problem, in my estimation, has been a lack of connection and no excitement (at least none for me) in their skating. You could see their minds working on what comes next, instead of them exhibiting effortless flow and personality. Under Moskvina's tutelage, M/G are light years better in those weak areas of their skating. Moskvina just has vision, creativity, strength of will, and the ability to hypnotize. LOL In other words, she can pull ability out of skaters. I don't know how she does it, but it's obviously her skill in seeing what they have in them to give. And then being able to create different patterns and unique choreographic sequences that are engaging and specific to the skaters she's working with. This can camouflage weaknesses, while maximizing strengths. Overall, Moskvina has the knack of giving her charges huge amounts of confidence and also calm under competitive conditions.

Upshot: Moskvina has given M/G much more than 'choreographic touches.' Their current transformation goes beyond that. Sure, M/G have to execute difficult moves seamlessly. But it is Moskvina who gave them the confidence. It is Moskvina who has seen what's in them and pulled it out of them. She has helped them to be able to express a bit of their personalities and to interact more easily and engagingly with each other on the ice, rather than just rapping off technical moves robotically, anxiously or tentatively (which is what they did previously IMO).

I agree with much of this. I had no intention of slighting Tamara Moskvina's contributions to her (to her, new) pair of Mishina/Galliamov. I just wasn't thinking of talking about every little thing that I think she does contribute to every one of her pairs. And, I still think that a huge amount of credit goes to Anastasia and Sasha; they've taken every nuance and every flourish and made it their own. The refinements they've made are very impressive. I think one of the things about them I love the most is that everything they do seems genuine and from the heart. Even when they're acting out a story, they do it "full out." They're fully committed to each mood and each phrase of music. And they have technique that is exquisite and adds to the beauty of their skating.

The main points that I would add, to my post above, are that 1. Moskvina really looks at her skaters and sees ways to highlight and improve upon what she sees. From reading her interviews, I feel that her advanced education in art and her constant and continuing attention to art keep her eyes and mind open to the possibilities. I love how she talks about always looking for ways to make beautiful shapes with her pairs' movements. 2. In a quite recent interview, Moskvina was asked if she yells at her students; the answer was no. She said once she called a girl a fool, but then apologized. I think that she emphasizes the positive in every way, and this alone gives her students a huge boost in confidence. 3. She has a calm demeanor, and 4. She corrects a mistake or makes a change in a movement very early in the process.

I can't remember where I heard the following, but someone (maybe TSL, a few years back? -- yes, I believe it was) asked her about that comment she made in 1994 about hypnotizing Mishkutenok and Dmitriev. She replied with a twinkle that she was more or less pulling the leg of the interviewer, or at least that she was exaggerating with a wink. Still, I for one am a believer in what a coach, a parent, or a friend who believes in you, can impart with a deep look into the eyes. So hypnotizing isn't far off. Anyway, all hypnosis is self-hypnosis, or so I've heard.

That interview must have been the two-part one TSL did in 2015, and it's too long for me to look up the remark right now. I was very impressed throughout the interview with how the great Tamara turned every single question right around that had even a hint of a negative slant. My impression was that it's a habit with her to automatically convert every question or statement to a positive. The fact that she was doing it in English was even more impressive.

 

[skylark]

Addendum: It seems like I dwelt too much, in my posts above, on the flourishes and extra moves that Mishina/Galliamov create. It's something I've been noticing lately, especially with Aleksandr. But what I loved about them from first seeing them was the joy and sparkle that they have as a pair, especially Anastasia. She's just a natural performer, and I enjoy that so much. It definitely puts me onto the ice with them.

Also, I've been thinking how funny it is that I like their complementary movements, sometimes in opposition to each other. It's funny because one of the things I love most about Ashley Cain-Gribble and Timothy Leduc is their unison, with their beautiful long lines.

So I'm either inconsistent as a skating fan, or supremely dedicated to "I like who and what I like!"