Pairs FS

[mousepotato]

Could someone explain to me why K/S scored 8.36 for CH while V/T scored 9.00 for CH?(with S/S scoring 9.07, just 0.07 over V/T). And the scores for transitions too. Thank you

I'm not even sure the judges can.

K/S chor. is far more superior to V/T. They never stop skating from start to finish with wonderful interpretation. V/T's program is is not as good once you take out the elements. Not enough space between S/S and V/T on that PCS.

 

[Bartek]

Could someone explain to me why K/S scored 8.36 for CH while V/T scored 9.00 for CH?(with S/S scoring 9.07, just 0.07 over V/T). And the scores for transitions too. Thank you

V/T have the judges momentum right now. K/S unfortunately has lost some of it recently. They can have superior choreography (in fact they have) to V/T's but they aren't russian number one team anymore so they can't be given higher PCS . This is how it works.

 

[Florian]

So Florian was wrong in saying that Trankov has a small woman and Szolkowy has a bigger one. The ratio is exactly the same. They are proportional. He/she was wrong about the Zhangs as well.

I didn't say they're taller, just "bigger" as a general impression while watching it. S/S just seem physically quite equal and harmonic to me, more than the others. And even if the ratio in height may be the same, it surely isn't in weight and regarding the "Hebelverhältnis", don't know how you say it in English, "leverage ratio"?

 

[pangtongfan]

I feel bad for V/T losing by such a close margin, but probably objectively speaking the PCS gap between them and S/S should have been more than it was. I just wish there was a way to give V/T more than 1.5 points gain in the triple twist, the two teams are on another planet from each other in that move.

 

[silver.blades]

I thought that V/T had done enough overall to win, but the margin is so small that I can't really complain. S/S program is a masterpiece. By far one of the great pairs programs. Individually and element for element the Russians are the better team. She is particular is absolutely stunning. Live she is the fastest skater out there. Her positions are to die for, impeccable stretch and line and control. V/T's twist is one of the most spectacular things I've ever seen. The only criticism I have for them other than getting better programs is softer landing on the throws. She comes down with a loud thud that you can hear through the arena. Although when the throws are that high I suppose a softer landing might be difficult.

 

[letsskate]

I'm just curious. Kissing on the lips between a man and a woman in Russian culture doesn't necessarily mean two people are romantically involved?

 

[cutesonic]

Poor Z/Z. My heart really broke for them.

 

[Redstone]

I'm just curious. Kissing on the lips between a man and a woman in Russian culture doesn't necessarily mean two people are romantically involved?

Usually it does mean that, so some people in Russia were also confused if V/T are having an affair. But in this case, I believe, it's just happened because of how emotional they were after finishing.

 

[letsskate]

Usually it does mean that, so some people in Russia were also confused if V/T are having an affair. But in this case, I believe, it's just happened because of how emotional they were after finishing.

hmm ok, but they seemed to me that they did the same thing at the kiss and cry after SP as well.... Stas didn't seem to have any reaction to it whatsoever. haha

 

[Redstone]

hmm ok, but they seemed to me that they did the same thing at the kiss and cry after SP as well.... Stas didn't seem to have any reaction to it whatsoever. haha

Nah, it was close but not on the lips.
We saw them walking holding hands during the CoR and Stas was very cool with it,lol. Max and Tanya generally act touchy-feely with each other .

 

[ILoveFigures]

Depends what you define as clean. I thought they had 2 minor mistakes.

They did, and just to make it clear, a two-foot landing is not a minor mistake. The deduction is -3 and the GOE has to be in the minuses.

 

[clairecloutier]

I thought that V/T had done enough overall to win, but the margin is so small that I can't really complain. S/S program is a masterpiece. By far one of the great pairs programs. Individually and element for element the Russians are the better team.

Do others agree with this comment--that element for element, V/T is the better pair?

I agree V/T have the best split triple twist (that seems widely acknowledged). I'd give them the edge in lifts too. I love Savchenko/Szolkowy's lifts, but V/T's lifts have a great effortless quality to them, as well as lovely positions on her part. Also I think V/T get better ice coverage on lifts than S/S. In terms of side-by-side jumps, I think S/S have the edge. Certainly their jump layout is tougher, with the back-to-back SBS triple toes. I think the Gerrmans' spins are better as well. Also I'd probably give them the edge in footwork and transitions. I haven't seen the two teams live, so I can't really evaluate their relative speed on the ice. The Germans look slower on TV, but then again, their choreography is much more difficult and complex, which tends to slow things a bit.

Personally I prefer S/S because their choreography and programs are so much more innovative and creative. I like V/T a lot also and totally respect their technical skills, but to me their programs are prosaic and ordinary. They really need to raise the level of their choreography and costumes. If they do, they may become very tough to beat! I'm sure that's why S/S are trying to up the ante technically with the throw triple Axel.

 

[silver.blades]

I do prefer S/S overall because they are very good technically and more enjoyable performers. As for V/T the purest in me absolutely adores Tatiana as she is impeccable and IMO the best female pairs skater currently competing. The fact that her manages to keep up with her and hold his own next to her makes me feel like they are the better team technically, but S/S aren't that far behind them and are much better on the performance side.

 

[dorispulaski]

It's interesting that it was a 3 way tie on the judge's protocols for the "Best Twist" category

V&T have the most spectacular (and highest GOE) version, but they have it with a level 1 rather than a level 3, as do Z&Z and T&T.

Zhangs 3LzTw3 7.10
Takahashi & Tran 3FTw3 7.10
Volosozhar & Trankov 3LzTw1 7.10
Kawaguti&Smirnova 3LzTw2 5.80
Savchenko & Szolkowy 3LzTw1 5.50
Duhamel & Radford 3LzTw2 5.20

BTW, I was thrilled to see the Zhangs were in the exhibition, so I'm hoping Zhang Hao's arm & shoulder aren't irretrievably screwed up, and that they will be back competing at 4CC's and Worlds.

 

[mousepotato]

I'm just curious. Kissing on the lips between a man and a woman in Russian culture doesn't necessarily mean two people are romantically involved?

Max also kissed Maria so I wouldn't read too much into it.

They did, and just to make it clear, a two-foot landing is not a minor mistake. The deduction is -3 and the GOE has to be in the minuses.

The judges either didn't see V/T two-foot the landing or they ignored it. They had only five judges give a -1, three giving +1 and one 0.

It's interesting that it was a 3 way tie on the judge's protocols for the "Best Twist" category

V&T have the most spectacular (and highest GOE) version, but they have it with a level 1 rather than a level 3, as do Z&Z and T&G.

Zhangs 3LzTw3 7.10
Takahashi & Tran 3FTw3 7.10
Volosozhar & Trankov 3LzTw1 7.10
Kawaguti&Smirnova 3LzTw2 5.80
Savchenko & Szolkowy 3LzTw1 5.50
Duhamel & Radford 3LzTw2 5.20

BTW, I was thrilled to see the Zhangs were in the exhibition, so I'm hoping Zhang Hao's arm & shoulder aren't irretrievably screwed up, and that they will be back competing at 4CC's and Worlds.

I think Bazarova and Larionov have the best twist, not V/T.

V/T may be slightly higher but until you add in the rest: difficult entry, split twist, arms over the head the hight is really all they have. But B/L have height and a L3.

The Zhangs to me have the worst, only because of her. The hight is great but her bent body in the air is gross.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Re. Hao's shoulder, due to his finger injuries, which are not 100% healed, he's been compensating with his arm and evidently shoulder, plus Dan actually grew during his long sojourn from handling her weight. I think at this point Hao's rather vulnerable to injuries.

 

[dorispulaski]

I'm afraid that's true. Fortunately, there is a reasonably long time till 4CC's. He may heal (I hope)

The 2012 national championships have already been held (they won), so that should be their next competition. Of course, they could skip it, too, and come back again at Worlds.

 

[Ilvskating]

Zhangs are still very strong technically. They also showed good progresses in artistry. Wish them luck.

I start to like S/S's LP now, although I think presentation wise their Skate Russia one was better. It's interesting to see which team get on top at World.

 

[Vkatya95]

Who was holding hands? Max and Tanya or Tanya and Stas?