Papadakis & Cizeron : for the history of Ice Dance

[gravy]

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not attempting to put those words into my mouth.

Cuz I never made such a claim. :noshake:

(Yikes … I keep adding posts even though I keep saying that I am not going to. )

We can just agree to disagree. Moving on.

 

[Mathman]

Since you are going back to 1990, you should probably go back to 1976 or so to pick up all of the ice dance as Olympic Sport years

Just for fun I went back to 1952. If Papadakis and Cizeron win three more world championships, they will surpass the tally of Pakhomova and Gorshkov (P&G have 6).

Right now P&C are tied for second place (4 world championships) with Westwood/Demmy, Romanova/Roman, Towler/Ford, Torvill/Dean, Bestemianova/Bukin, and Grishuk/Platov.

Pakhomova and Gorshkov, tango

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z5SgEOF7dc

 

[4everchan]

time will only tell: teams like the Duchesnays, Rahkamo and Kokko or Bourne and Kraatz may not have as impressive numbers as some others but will always be remembered for their style, emotional performances and their skating prowesses....

some other teams,Navka-Kostomarov,for instance, may have better stats but will perhaps not remain in the skating fans imaginary/ history books.

i say let history write itself...

 

[CHCreation]

Talk about conjecture. Pot calling kettle black

LOL Do you think it is an acomplishment for a team to win short with a couple who struggled with a costume with breast on , but lost free skate with the same couple who didnt have any problem this time and could concretrate in 100% performing a program

 

[Mathman]

^ It is what it is. You win... or you don't. No excuses, no what ifs.

As for the actual thread topic -- what is Papadakis and Cizeron's place in the history of ice dance? -- that history is still being written.

Go, go, go! Don't stop to count your money while you're sittin' at the table.

 

[Harriet]

Don't stop to count your money while you're sittin' at the table.

...thanks for that earworm.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Just for fun I went back to 1952. If Papadakis and Cizeron win three more world championships, they will surpass the tally of Pakhomova and Gorshkov (P&G have 6).

Right now P&C are tied for second place (4 world championships) with Westwood/Demmy, Romanova/Roman, Towler/Ford, Torvill/Dean, Bestemianova/Bukin, and Grishuk/Platov.

Pakhomova and Gorshkov, tango

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z5SgEOF7dc

OMG Gorshkov's bell bottoms are history making in themselves! Props to him for not tripping over those!

I love watching old figure skating videos!

 

[Gotlev]

Since you are going back to 1990, you should probably go back to 1976 or so to pick up all of the ice dance as Olympic Sport years

That would make the first table not comparable unless the GP was removed, no?

 

[TallyT]

What, yet another "proving my current favourite/bete noir is/is not the GOAT" thread???? I know recycling is a Good Thing these days, but still...

 

[WeakAnkles]

What, yet another "proving my current favourite/bete noir is/is not the GOAT" thread???? I know recycling is a Good Thing these days, but still...

De gustibus non est disuptandum.

And I say that even with all the numbers and stats being hurled about with reckless abandon.

One thing I WILL say: P/C may have moved ice dancing in a new direction toward lyrically lyrical lyricism, but they have not significantly advanced ice dancing in the same way that either Torvill/Dean and Marlie/Voir did.

This is not to say that they won't in the future. They certainly have the ability to do so (go back and look at the Woodkid program and tell me they can't skate in another style; I can always use a good laugh). But so far, they haven't.

 

[Big Deal]

I think that the fact of Sinitsina/Katsalapov got quite a few 10's at the World Team Trophy shows the plan of the ISU and judges to give them some competition. Especially because they literally cannot improve their points while the others all can do it (and will do it)... It is a good reason to their fans to be worried. There are still 2,5 seasons for their competitors to improve their points until the Olympic... The fact that some judges thought that their skating quality is equal to Sinitsina/Katsalapov is really strange and the beginning of a tendency I am affraid.
At the Worldchampionships the difference was 10 points and a few weeks later at the World Team Trophy only 5 points...

 

[cell]

That would make the first table not comparable unless the GP was removed, no?

Why are you bumping these threads 3 months after?

 

[skylark]

Why are you bumping these threads 3 months after?

I for one am happy the thread got bumped. I missed it in April. I don't necessarily think the poster was trying to make a case for who is the greatest of all time (but what do I know?) I'm not a fan of the "GOAT" designation, because I think it tries to quantify performances in a sport, when there are lots of quality and enjoyment factors that aren't quantifiable. And it favors longevity, when many athletes have made valuable contributions to their sport regardless of longevity.

But I really enjoyed reading the OP's table, just to throw light from a few different angles on factors that may not get highlighted so often. For instance, the first table shows the chosen results over the years that each dance couple competed. Just looking at the first four: Papadakis/Cizeron's figures are over a six-year period; Davis/White's are over a seven-year period; Grishuk/Platov's are over an eight-year period; and Virtue/Moir's are over a thirteen-year span, with (I think) two seasons off.

I'm not saying that proves anything; but the comparison is interesting. And it shows a different perspective, other than counting the number of Olympic medals. In addition to Bourne/Kraatz who were mentioned earlier in the thread, Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto ushered in the ascendancy of a wholly new style of ice dance (Zueva/Shpilband) and did it with a lot of character and grace. As just one other example among many contributors to the sport. It all depends on one's individual taste and values.

 

[cell]

I for one am happy the thread got bumped. I missed it in April.

It's not just this one... it's the one with the interview as well.