- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
Why? Because Plushenko, Lambiel and Takahashi are coming back!!
Patrick Chan Landing the Quad
- Thread starter i love to skate
- Start date
Why? Because Plushenko, Lambiel and Takahashi are coming back!!
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
The WTT was at times a strangely scored event, and Chan's LP score was an example of this; I won't get into whether his marks in other events were justified or not because that's not my point here.
My thinking is that trying to push the tech content is absolutely right for him if he can pull it off. Sure, Chan could just say, hey, I'm getting top scores even with mistakes on my jumps and/or a low base mark, so why bother. But this is based on the assumption that judges will continue to score even his weaker performances well, which is by no means a given considering the caliber of the skaters he'll be compared to next season.
So the smart thing is to risk the quad, because that is a risk he can control, rather than put programs out there where he's dependent on the judges giving him high GOEs and PCS in order to stay competitive - a risk he can't control.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
She represented Switzerland at Eurovision (1987, I think?). So clearly, Ant, it is the Swiss you hate!
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
She represented Switzerland at Eurovision (1987, I think?). So clearly, Ant, it is the Swiss you hate!
Being a complete Eurovision geek i knew that and actually liked the song, but don't hold it against me, it was the 80s and i was only 8!
And i've alway hated the Swiss with their neutral ways and all.
I'm sorry i've clearly mistaken this thread for the plush thread (Seniorita would be proud!)
Let me bring it back on topic by applauding Chan's warm up quad but re-iterate that practice and warm up quads are just that and you need it in competition for it to count.
Ant
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
No offense, but obviously you don't know the history of the particular poster that Sackie was referring to.
This is just your assumption.
Oh, Cup of Russia (?), Otonal! He probably had to face Plushenko there, did he? Just as he's going to this upcoming CoR as well. Plus, Patrick. Of the three, I believe in Zhenya's quads the most (IF he indeed is coming back).
Well, the reason is rather straightforward for why there are articles about how superior his skating is, how intricate his choreography, how fantastic his transitions, how brilliant his spins. That's because his skating is superior, his choreography is intricate, his transitions are fantastic and his spins are brilliant.
Yes, that's my opinion. However. that is also the opinion of the large majority of international judges, based on his GOE marks for his spins and his PCS marks from international judges.
Deal with it. He's a very good skater.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
Yeah well, the same judges also give Kim huge positive GOEs on her spins, including her atrocious sitspin.
I have also never denied that he is a very good skater.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
^^
It's the pre-Olympic hype machine. Any country with a skater that has the slightest whiff of making the podium is practically honour-bound to drum up some excitement for feel-good patriotic reasons, especially if that country's paying host to the Olympic games.
Plus if the skater doesn't win, it's more plausible that the wuzrobbed accusations will be believed by the masses after if they're constantly inundated with articles proclaiming the skater's superiority
It's the pre-Olympic hype machine. Any country with a skater that has the slightest whiff of making the podium is practically honour-bound to drum up some excitement for feel-good patriotic reasons, especially if that country's paying host to the Olympic games.
Plus if the skater doesn't win, it's more plausible that the wuzrobbed accusations will be believed by the masses after if they're constantly inundated with articles proclaiming the skater's superiority
You are absolutely correct. Because judges can't be bought. Because Patrick's passport and the pure coincidence of Olympics being in Vancouver have absolutely nothing to do with Patrick's sudden rise to fame. Nothing at all. Nope.
Also, the vice president at ISU is NOT Canadian.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
Yep, you are absolutely right. Being a Canadian skater = automatic high placement at Worlds. Nothing to do with talent. Got it :banging:
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Skaters from countries other than Canada have also benefitted from dodgy scoring at times. Also, you can't be seriously implying there has been bribery in Chan's case. I think some judges have bought into the hype a bit too much, but to suggest they have been bribed is ludicrous. He's good enough to get good results on his own.
I think Chan's rise owes to two things:
1. (as even those of us who are not fans admit) he is a very good skater. Is he superior to all others in all non-jumps areas? No, he is not. But when he's on, he's certainly a serious contender. I think some people's annoyance with Chan is more an annoyance with the judges: even when he's not on, he still gets very high marks, more so than skaters who are similar to him in style and ability. But that's a judging issue, not something that a skater should be blamed for.
2. Jeffrey Buttle retired. Yes, Patrick fans, I'm sorry: show me how he became a signifiantly better skater after the 2007-08 season ended if you want to argue otherwise. He didn't; his non-jump elements were good before, the 3As became more common but he's still not consistent with them, and his musical interpretation has not improved in any notable way. And yet, his PB went up by at least 30 or 40 points.
Sure, some of it is because every young skater has to prove himself to get marked well. But in addition, Chan is now a skater with the full backing of his federation as their number one guy, and being set up for the Vancouver podium. We have seen similar things with other skaters and federations. I believe that had Jeffrey Buttle stayed around, that focus would have been on him, and Chan would have likely been waiting in the wings for the next Olympic cycle, and/or for Jeffrey to falter.
As evangeline noted, media hype in this situation is to be expected. I don't read it anymore, and I hope the judges aren't, either.
While I take issue with some of Chan's scores, I usually have no problem with his placement (which makes him the new Plushy, I guess
). He certainly has enough talent to be a serious contender. I don't think he has enough talent to dominate the sport, at least not yet. But I'd rather discuss his merits and not his passport, or whether Skate Canada is engaging in wuzrobbing conspiracies. So everyone who suggests Chan is bashed because he's Canadian or overmarked because he's Canadian: stop it. (not referring to you, i love to skate).With that in mind:
* His skating is certainly strong, but not superior to that of the top guys.geoskate said:
* His choreography is inricate, but his interpretation can be better. Yes, that's an opinion. I believe this will improve in time, especially if he chooses the music himself without letting Nichol point him in specific directions. I think that when skaters pick music that is meaningful to them, it comes across in their skating.
* His transitions are fantastic. No argument there. But skating is not just about transitions, any more than it is just about spins or jumps. People tend to forget that they are just one component of the PCS, no more.
* His spins, as Medusa pointed out, are not that great. Stephane Lambiel's spins were brilliant (and I hope they still will be, next season). Lysacek has a fantastic sit spin. Chan does what he needs to get the levels up. That doesn't make him brilliant.
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- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
Skaters from countries other than Canada have also benefitted from dodgy scoring at times. Also, you can't be seriously implying there has been bribery in Chan's case. I think some judges have bought into the hype a bit too much, but to suggest they have been bribed is ludicrous. He's good enough to get good results on his own.
I think Chan's rise owes to two things:
1. (as even those of us who are not fans admit) he is a very good skater. Is he superior to all others in all non-jumps areas? No, he is not. But when he's on, he's certainly a serious contender. I think some people's annoyance with Chan is more an annoyance with the judges: even when he's not on, he still gets very high marks, more so than skaters who are similar to him in style and ability. But that's a judging issue, not something that a skater should be blamed for.
2. Jeffrey Buttle retired. Yes, Patrick fans, I'm sorry: show me how he became a signifiantly better skater after the 2007-08 season ended if you want to argue otherwise. He didn't; his non-jump elements were good before, the 3As became more common but he's still not consistent with them, and his musical interpretation has not improved in any notable way. And yet, his PB went up by at least 30 or 40 points.
Sure, some of it is because every young skater has to prove himself to get marked well. But in addition, Chan is now a skater with the full backing of his federation as their number one guy, and being set up for the Vancouver podium. We have seen similar things with other skaters and federations. I believe that had Jeffrey Buttle stayed around, that focus would have been on him, and Chan would have likely been waiting in the wings for the next Olympic cycle, and/or for Jeffrey to falter.
As evangeline noted, media hype in this situation is to be expected. I don't read it anymore, and I hope the judges aren't, either.
While I take issue with some of Chan's scores, I usually have no problem with his placement (which makes him the new Plushy, I guess
With that in mind:
* His skating is certainly strong, but not superior to that of the top guys.
* His choreography is inricate, but his interpretation can be better. Yes, that's an opinion. I believe this will improve in time, especially if he chooses the music himself without letting Nichol point him in specific directions. I think that when skaters pick music that is meaningful to them, it comes across in their skating.
* His transitions are fantastic. No argument there. But skating is not just about transitions, any more than it is just about spins or jumps. People tend to forget that they are just one component of the PCS, no more.
* His spins, as Medusa pointed out, are not that great. Stephane Lambiel's spins were brilliant (and I hope they still will be, next season). Lysacek has a fantastic sit spin. Chan does what he needs to get the levels up. That doesn't make him brilliant.
Great post Buttercup!
I think had Jeff stayed around both Patrick and Jeff would have been pushed by each other to be number 1 in Canada. Patrick already proved he could beat Jeff at Canadians in 2008 and I wish Jeff would have stayed around. I think it would have been quite the rivalry between them.
I agree about Patrick's spins. They are very good but I wouldn't call them brilliant.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Ahh, corruption allegations. It's not enough to disagree with someone; the other side must be fundamentally wrong.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
Thanks, Buttercup! That was a well-balanced, thoughtful, and rational post.
I think skaters as smart as Jeffrey won't stay. What more perfect time it could be to leave the sport at a high note? Patrick is rising. Jeffrey was struggling in the last a couple of years before he's retiring. The result he has gotten was the best he could possibily get. What more could he accomplish? It was a brilliant decision for him to move on to next goal. Wasn't he studying Chemical Engineering in University of Toronto? I am wondering how and what he is doing now? (I know he's done some choreography.)
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Well said! A wise person knows when it's time to move on to the next phase. I'm sure this attitude will take him far wherever the future takes him.
