Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

[pangtongfan]

I actually wouldn't argue so hard about last years world title, it wasn't as bad of a skater, I thought it was ridiculous though that Dai didn't win the free skate.

True, last years Worlds would have been quite acceptable if Dai had atleast won the LP. Chan skated a very good short and Dai bombed the short, and Chan really only had one big mistake in the long so winning could be justified. Unfortunately for Chan his even more controversial win at this years Worlds basically means last years controversy will seem that much more too as well. That is happens when you are a skater who is held up repeatedly.

 

[Bentley]

I totally agree with Plushenko on this one. Chan certainly has done his share of dishing. His comments on Plushy have been pretty rude. What goes around comes around.

 

[gmyers]

That happened rightfully because of Plushenko´s own thoughtless remarks about his transitions. Plushenko was no victim, he caused it all himself.

This is so not true. Why did NBC have big statues of Lenin and Stalin in their media shots about plushenko? Because of transitions? fact it is called st petersberg not Leningrad anymore. He got tons of 6.0 in the second mark in his career! And in chroeo and int he was always good! the extreme hate toward plushenko in us and Canada media and other media had nothing to Do alot of the time with transitions! He was setting himself -because he absolutely wAs- as technically superior to everyone else in Vancouver and he was and delivered and therefore was vilified because lysacek was world champ and chan was silver medalist being without quads.

 

[bestskate8]

Oh, please! I don't think you haven't read his comment yet. He has put himself into a hot water by refering Chan's win to Canadian federation's political win.

...Talk about Patrick Chan doesn't have a mouth guard!

By saying, what you just said, only proves that Plushenko is right! otherwise who cares

Plushenko's judgement comes from his long term experiance on ice. He cares and cheers for Denis and tries to give him right message, what wrong with that?

As long as Plushenko wins in Sochi with mistakes (Chan's precedent-home cuntry, home ice) all should be happy, including flawless Chan and his ubers.

The precedent is set for two years in a row!

 

[bestskate8]

Don't put words in Plushenko's mouth. Twisting or simplifying other people's argument to make your own point is called "straw man fallacy", just you know.

And if you actually watched the competition, Ten actually did 2 quads, one in SP and one in LP.

Denis also did three 3A!!! and Chan only two)))

Suddently I m picturing a dozen lambs on their way to the judges desks.


Ten replied to Plush: @Tenis_Den: @EvgeniPlushenko Thank you very much, Zhenya! Get well soon

Well Denis Ten must have THE week of his life, he gave two amazing performances,won silver at Worlds and had Plush congradulating him on twitter.

Exactly!
Plushenko twitted to Denis! and everybody took it wrong way))) Evgeni should stick to his radio!

I disagree. Indeed Plushy's remarks were thoughtless but the campaign before Vancouver was much more than taking advantage of silly comments made by one of competitors.

It really had all the elements of a textbook propaganda campaign:
Demonizing the enemy - clips with Lenin's statues falling and Plushy presented as an evil commie
Appeal to authority - Joe Inman, an official ISU judge, sends an e-mail to other official ISU judges, just before the competition, ref. how to score Plushenko's transitions. Accidentally this e-mail leaks to the press...Moreover at ISU seminars there are presented videos of Plushenko and his weak points are given as an example ( it is completely unethical to use a competitor as an example no matter who he/she is, but isn't it amazing that they chose Plushenko despite the fact that I am sure there were plenty of retired skaters who could be given as examples?)
Tireless repetition of an idea - Plushenko & lack of transitions were repeated ad nauseum on all the media channels (including figure skating forums where some pople do post because they have an agenda)

Don't forget Chinqanta threatining Plushenko if he speaks up after the SP. It was illegal too.

 

[let`s talk]

This is my last post

Again? Jeez.. I lost the count how many times you promised me that...

it's a different judging system.

You realize how silly this argument defending the CoP looks considering the drastically declining popularity of this sport? I really don't get why would someone who cares do that.

 

[gmyers]

Denis also did three 3A!!! and Chan only two)))



Exactly!
Plushenko twitted to Denis! and everybody took it wrong way))) Evgeni should stick to his radio!






Don't forget Chinqanta threatining Plushenko if he speaks up after the SP. It was illegal too.

I forgot!! Cinquanta was almost the worst!! The head of the isu calling him one note!! Piano player who only hits one key! The head of the isu before the lp bashing and crucifying he leader of the sp!

 

[Bluebonnet]

So it is ok to put negative spin on Plushenko. Then it would be even less a problem for others to poke holes in the positive spin around Chan or Chanada. Fair play, huh?

Plushenko himself is asking for that by jumping right into it.

As long as Plushenko wins in Sochi with mistakes (Chan's precedent-home cuntry, home ice) all should be happy, including flawless Chan and his ubers.

Let's be clear of this. Plushenko will not win Sochi with or without mistakes. There are simply too many top skaters he needs to concour. The best he might do is to stay on the podium. You don't have to believe me, though.

 

[plushyfan]

I really don't like Plushenko at all and I also think that he is arrogant and was overscored many times (terrible choreos and interpretations) but hey, he did not lie. Not only Plushenko has that opinion, Todd Eldredge, Johnny Weir, Christina Gao, Sonia Bianchetti, many other skaters, authorities and commentators also share his point of view. Actually, everybody except his fans and some canadians know that Patrick did not deserve his last 2 world titles.

He isn't arrogant. You know there are two Plushenko.. One, what is everybody knows: the competitor Plushy-we his fans say when he is in combat mode, and second one when he isn't. Maybe in combat mode he looks like arrogant, but in real life he is a kind person. I believe the real personality shown away from the cameras ...Last year Plush was in China on the great Artistry on Ice show.
from his official website:

"And fans all say that he is absolutely nice to the fans. Once you get to know him, he is acting all adorable, goofy and endearing around you.

There was also a girl working backstage as an assistant to the show's wardrobe department, she reported some "inside scoop". She had lots of chances going to the Men's changing room, and saw Plushy and Vitlay a lot. Plushy also asked their help to iron the costume.

She said Plushy is very tall, has a great body, and truly being very polite, respectful and mild mannered to others. But Plushy is giving wardrobe department headache, ;;-))) as he often forgot where his costume or props are, he is forgetful in such an adorable way.

In the end the girl cannot help herself but asked for a hug, Plushy hugged her and she was speechless. They also took picture together, she told him "I love you" in Russian, and he startled a bit, and said "Thank you. Love you too. Goodbye."

and a report from one grils who was in his training camp (Pinzolo, some girls used to go to his training camp)

"About this, I want to tell an episode, which shows another feature of Evgeni Plushenko to those who know him only as a proud champion and sometimes aloof.
We’re sitting on the usual place, in the stands, waiting to watch his workout, when the sound of suitcases laid on the ground makes turn our heads. It's Evgeni, evidently returning from an intense session in the gym, sweating and red in the face, a white towel around his neck.
At the same time we see coming down Chiara, who had announced his arrival today: she tells us that Evgeni had reached her on the stairs and he snatched away the baggage, after having embraced and warmly welcomed her. Then, he preceded her, carrying the bags and bringing her to us. We stare at him open-mouthed, and he smiled, amused by our surprise. He asked us "How are you?" and when we asked him how he was doing, he replied:: "Still alive!". Then he went to change his clothes to get on the rink. Also this is Evgeni Plushenko"

 

[lilywang]

Plushenko himself is asking for that by jumping right into it.

Ditto to Chan then! The only difference would be Plushenko may jumped into it with his skates, while Chan did it with his butt .

 

[Evgenia]

I thought you were arguing all the way that Plushenko is better. So in the end, the most we can say is - Plushenko is no difference than Patrick Chan. Even worse. Plushenko is taking the revenge now.

I am just not good at English which is not my mother language.
I think Plushy is different from Chan. As far as I know, he has never said with contempt about Chan's personal stuff (as Chan often says against his rivals), but talked about his skating or a result this time. It is not the same.
He might be just having Canadian or Chinese manner, always to be frank and sometimes rude. But I don't know if it is true because my Canadian and Chinese friends are very good people.

 

[Skater Boy]

Yes, it is true Plushy is the man who knows COP so well - remember Vancouver Olympics. Didn't do a 3 jump combo that cost him gold or the heavy front loaded program - no bonuses or the lack of transitions? And Chan lost the freeskate and rightfully so but the other men other than Ten also had their problems.

 

[Skater Boy]

True, last years Worlds would have been quite acceptable if Dai had atleast won the LP. Chan skated a very good short and Dai bombed the short, and Chan really only had one big mistake in the long so winning could be justified. Unfortunately for Chan his even more controversial win at this years Worlds basically means last years controversy will seem that much more too as well. That is happens when you are a skater who is held up repeatedly.

So can we not say the same about Mao, Carolina, S squared? they make mistakes and still find themselves constantly being held up. At least Carolina and Chan hae great skating skills.

 

[gmyers]

Yes, it is true Plushy is the man who knows COP so well - remember Vancouver Olympics. Didn't do a 3 jump combo that cost him gold or the heavy front loaded program - no bonuses or the lack of transitions? And Chan lost the freeskate and rightfully so but the other men other than Ten also had their problems.

Yeah a proper cop program for vancouver would have included no quad. So he should have not done any quads and done a program with a 3/5 layout and spent quad training time on step sequences and getting a 3/5 layout. Done the lysacek Oda brezina chan program. First thing would have been to take ouT the quad

 

[bestskate8]

Plushenko himself is asking for that by jumping right into it.



Let's be clear of this. Plushenko will not win Sochi with or without mistakes. There are simply too many top skaters he needs to concour. The best he might do is to stay on the podium. You don't have to believe me, though.

My guess, you never watched Plushenko skate after Oly 2010. Ten almost won Worlds 2013 over the rest and it doesn't tell you anything?
Plushenko has good chance as a few other askaters to win in Sochi and he doesn't need to be clean, or have many quads, last two Worlds and a few other competitions proved that. It is a fact. Lets keep this consistancy till Sochi!

None of the current skaters have maturity into their skating like Plushenko has, may be exept Dai, but his jumps are not textbook and if judge correcly mostly should be -goe if no difficult entrance/exit.
Chan got free pieces of cake for two years in a row.

This Plushenko twitt was entirly for Denis and to congratulate him and explain to Denis why he didn't win. End of story.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes, it is true Plushy is the man who knows COP so well - remember Vancouver Olympics. Didn't do a 3 jump combo that cost him gold or the heavy front loaded program - no bonuses or the lack of transitions? And Chan lost the freeskate and rightfully so but the other men other than Ten also had their problems.

Oh, the irony...... Plushenko lost to Sandhu at the GPF and lost to Lysacek at the OWG with what he thought were perfect performances, but left points on the table by failing to get the most points under the system's rules, costing him the gold. Ten downgrading to a 2F-2T left 7 points on the table which would have easily got him the win. So I can see why Plushenko would sympathize with Ten.

Unfortunately for Ten and Plushenko, the system is based on gaining points for what you do by following the rules, and not just going clean, hence not maximizing your base value will put you at a disadvantage.

If instead of 2F-2T Ten accidentally did a 3Z-3T combo, and negated the 10 points for that combo by Zayaking, I'm sure people would be less sympathetic to his loss -- even though anyone watching would be like "Whoa he went clean and there's the 3-3!"..... so the same should apply to him downgrading two triples.

It's maybe not a question of whether Chan deserves a world title so much as did Ten get the marks he deserved that put him within reach of a World title. Let's not forget the judges gave him +3s on many elements (rightfully so), but also gave him better PCS than Takahashi, Hanyu and Fernandez. As if his Choreo and Interpretation was better than Takahashi?!

I'll say it again, Chan was overmarked, yes, but so was Ten. Both should have been 10 points lower than their FS total. Ten ended up getting 175 with one quad and no triple-triple.

 

[yelyoh]

Plush is Russian. The next Olympics is in Russia. He is very well respected in his home country. It will be interesting to see how the audience/fans in Russia react to Chan and if the judges are influenced by so many skaters' negative opinions of Chan's gold medal at this Worlds.

In general I think Chan was overmarked in both programs and that cemented his win. He is an awesome skater but his gold medal will be marred by the controversy surrounded his questionable win over Ten.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes, but Ten was also overmarked in his programs, maybe not to the extent of Chan, and it might have made a difference in the long run, but we'll never know. Ten was 5 points PCS-wise less than Chan after Chan's clean SP, and was 2 points less in PCS than Chan in the FS... Chan also received almost 4 points less than his personal best PCS in the FS, so his PCS was marked lower.

As for the Olympics, I don't think the judges will be influenced by this backlash. As much as Ten might have deserved the victory, and part of me definitely thinks he does, there were many factors other than PCS inflation that contributed to Chan's victory.

 

[pangtongfan]

So can we not say the same about Mao, Carolina, S squared? they make mistakes and still find themselves constantly being held up. At least Carolina and Chan hae great skating skills.

S&S's World title in 2008 was a farce IMO, but atleast they didnt make as many mistakes as Chan this year, and their competitors also skated mediocre or worse, apart from Dube & Davison who were too far back in the SP to win. Kostner won her only World title with a beautiful if slightly simple skate, and Asada won her 2 World titles with excellent skate apart from the one stomach plant going into a planned 3 axel. None of these skaters come close to the level of being held up as Chan.

As to whether there would be backlash at the Games, maybe backlash isnt the right word, but I ensure of one thing. The judges will be extra careful now to not let a result happen like that at the Games, in other words if those two performances were done at the Games Ten would win. The last thing the judges or anyone in figure skating wants is a scandal to top SLC, and if there is one, figure skating will be out of the Olympics for a good while. In Chan's case the news of his bogus win has spread far enough he will be scored with some extra scrutiny if anything.

 

[evangeline]

Yes, it is true Plushy is the man who knows COP so well - remember Vancouver Olympics. Didn't do a 3 jump combo that cost him gold or the heavy front loaded program - no bonuses or the lack of transitions? And Chan lost the freeskate and rightfully so but the other men other than Ten also had their problems.

Plushenko knows CoP fine. He has won his Olympic gold, an Olympic silver, and countless European titles under CoP. He knows the CoP well enough to know that as long as he lands his jumps, skates with charisma and is Plushenko, he'll get high marks. It doesn't matter if he has no transitions and no choreography and a crap front-loaded program, he'll still get 8s and 9s in PCS. Just look at his scores at 2012 Europeans. Heck, even his scores at the Olympics are really high for what he actually put out there on the ice.

Plushenko's only mistake was to actually point out the hypocrisy of this prior to the Vancouver Olympics, thus causing the whole controversy in the first place and forcing everyone to scrutinize his inflated PCS for that one competition. I have a feeling that if he didn't open his mouth, he'd probably be a 2-time Olympic champion today.