Plushenko threatened with legal action

[Linny]

Waning interest

Yes, good point. You must have gone out to Pittsburgh, PA. I seriously considered driving out but I ended up with a different item on my schedule (a horse show). The SA I went to was last year's in Reading, PA. Yes, the venue was not filled, and yes, the Ladies event was the best attended. And, yes, that year's SA had big name skaters drop out at the last minute and there were people in line who were disappointed... although, when they realized that the skater dropped out for health problems, their concern was tinged with concern for the skater's speedy recovery.

I can't speak for how others might feel if the skater drops out because the ISU and the organizer weren't on the same page... or if the skater drops out because the pay wasn't great enough. For myself, well, I didn't really come to see the big name skaters, anyway. I came to see the marvalous skaters who aren't televised.

I don't think it is really fair to place the burden of the waning interest in figure skating entirely on the top few skaters in the sport. Any athlete needs to weigh their options and act accordingly. Why should a top skater fly all over the world and skate in three GP events when they can make three times as much money doing one event close to home? The GP organizers have to know that and position themselves accordingly.

Instead of promising the chance to see a big name star, promise the chance to see a skater on the way up. How many times have you heard someone brag "Oh, I sat next to this rock star in a bar before he was a big name" or "I remember seeing so-and-so when she was just a little pip squeak learning double axels". The GP events could earn a whole lot of people bragging rights!

Plus, there really ought to be some hype around the amazing inroads the GP skaters are making. I'm jealous that I wasn't at Skate Canada this year to see that lift done by Z&S for the first time, especially after the huge news item bringing home the dangers of pairs skating from the previous GP event.

The Polish couple didn't miss a beat! I find that totally thrilling. In my own experience, after the terrible Chris Reeves horse accident, many horse people including myself, were taking stock. The skaters must have felt the same way, yet these fabulous pairs skaters continue to push forward.

Shouldn't THAT sell tickets? Why place the burden on Plushy or whoever?

Linny

 

[milanessa]

... However, the arena was far from being full. What is the reason for that? Is it the missing 'star' skaters or a growing disinterest in figure skating?...
Joe

I wasn't at SA this season but it had nothing to do with the "big" names pulling out. Nothing to do with a personal declining interest either but I'll be thinking long and hard about going again. Last years experience in Reading left a sour taste...hotels canceling out on people at the last minute and putting them up at inferior accomadations, capricious, surly staff at the arena, bad transportation, ticket problems and a general lack of organization. This is probably all stuff for a different thread but the whole week I had the impression the organizers (including the USFSA) would have been happier if we'd all bought our all event tickets, thrown in an extra fifty bucks to divvy up among the vendors and then just not shown up.

gerry

 

[Mathman]

It looks like Michelle played it cool once again. She "declined the invitation" to participate in the Grand Prix series. No harm, no foul. Her agent claims that she made this decission "before the deadline to accept or decline," although that seems to be in question because (according to Phil Hersh) some officials in the USFSA "needed to know" sooner. I'm not sure of the legal contractual status of someone "needing to know" something.

Both Sasha and Evgeny, I believe, accepted the invitation but then withdrew citing injuries. I think in this case parties who can claim financial loss, such as the ISU, do have a right to say, "Hey, Bub, you say you are injured, but here you are skating in events that are in direct competion with ours."

I don't know anything about the laws of the Czech Republic, but if the organizers of the event believed in good faith that Evgeny would appear, then their only financial liability is to give people their money back -- and then, only to the people who actually walked out without seeing the show.

As for the fate of the Grand Prix series, you can't force the paying customers to be interested in something that they're not. It wasn't the choice of the ISU to reduce the prize money. This was forced upon them by economic reality.

This is sad, because I love the Grand Prix series. But then, too, I didn't put my money where mouth is -- I didn't go to any of the GP events this year, so I don't have a right to blame anybody else.

Anyway, there is no way that any of this can hurt Plushenko himself (or Michelle, Sasha, etc.) Like Joe says, the game belongs to the stars.

Mathman

PS. Ptichka, thanks so much for the translation. :agree:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Linny - It's not the die hard fans who don't go to these events when they are able to do so. It is the local gentry who enjoy something in their home town. They were the ones who were missing. Die hard fans enjoy all the skating and skaters. I did miss MK and SC but then I relaxed to enjoy the 'show'. For me it was a pleasure to watch Susanna Poykio live,

The bottom line here, is that the arenas are not filling up for the GPs. My questiion is why not? If it isn't the absence of top name skaters, then I can't think of any other reason except there is a decline in interest in figure skating. Not with the die hard fans like you and me but with the general public. I'm not so sure that hotel accommodations is the reason.

As for Plush and MK and SC for that matter, it is not a burden for them to support figure skating. They are human beings and have their own priorities. But the effect on their cancelling an event does take its toll on attendance, in my opinion.

Joe

 

[cygnus]

Actually punishing skaters for not participating when they are injured is basically asking for trouble. And, as I mentioned before, even though I don't think Zheya should be traveling and skating, I can assure you that his "show" program would be far less demanding on him than skating a "win-worthy" competitive short and long program. So to say that he shouldn't skate in one place because he didn't skate in another is like comparing apples to oranges and ulitmately doing MORE to harm Figure Skating's image than helping it.

Maybe- but he wasn't too injured to participate in a small Russian competition shortly before this, where it is reported that he landed a quad salchow for the first time. So apparently he IS competing on a higher level and practicing his quads (and new ones at that). And he is planning on doing Cup of Russia. I know he may well be injured, but he doesn't really seem to be resting very much does he? Just being selective about
where he performs./competes.

 

[Dee4707]

Linny - I'm just wondering, though, if they realize that they may be contributing to the waning interest in figure skating.Joe

Joe, I couldn't agree with you more. :agree: While watching SA, I was embarassed that there were so many seats empty. What happened??? :sheesh: Do you think fans pulled out at the last minute?? Also, when I was at Skate Canada they had a supply of posters for SC and on it were Michelle and Evgeni. They were very nicely done too. The skaters as well as the fans need to support skating whether our favorites are there or not.

Dee

 

[Ptichka]

Actually, Mishin said that the main reason they had to decline American and Asian competitions were the long flights, not the actual skating. Plushenko is then very consistent - he is doing Russian and European shows, he isn't going on 6+ hour flights.

 

[merrywidow]

I've been watching Skate America on TV for 20 years. It has never, in my memory, had a sellout audience. USFSA has never seemed to mind because they collect on the TV revenues. It has very little to do with the skaters, rather advertising & ticket prices. Skate Canada is the only GP event that comes close to being a sellout. As for reducing the prize money to the skaters, have those running the ISU reduced their spending? How much goes into their pockets? Ever wonder where the income from ticket sales or TV went before the ISU instituted prize money (which was done to counteract amateurs turning pro) in the mid 90's? Even when Eldredge & Kwan were our top elite skaters on the world scene, Skate America didn't sell all their tickets.
By the way, Spokane TV has been advertising ticket sales for the '07 Nationals for the past few months & news report is they have already sold 30 % of the available tickets. That's advertising!!

 

[cygnus]

Actually, Mishin said that the main reason they had to decline American and Asian competitions were the long flights, not the actual skating. Plushenko is then very consistent - he is doing Russian and European shows, he isn't going on 6+ hour flights.

Again, maybe that's true, but he had no trouble flying to Japan in early October for a show there "Prince Ice World" (where he skated his new short and long programs), but he coudn't fly essentially the same distance for NHK? IMHO the excuses seem to be somewhat contrived. If he really needs to rest and take a break, he should do so- but he seems to be about as busy or moreso that before he was officially injured. Yes he doesn't do the big jumps in the shows-but he does more actual skating, I would think. And of course, as we know he did compete recently in Russia and is still working on (and landing) his quads, including the salchow, so he's not really lessening his training regime at all.

 

[rtureck]

Arakawa has to pull out of Lalique. In the past, she was scheduled to do a lot of local Japanese shows/ competitions. I wonder if this will involve her too.

 

[lavender]

I guess Arakawa would have problems too because she's not pulling out due to a medical problem. Man I can't wait til the Speedy empire crumbles.

 

[rtureck]

I guess Arakawa would have problems too because she's not pulling out due to a medical problem. Man I can't wait til the Speedy empire crumbles.

Oh, I thought she has an ankle injury

 

[lavender]

I thought Arakawa was having boot problems. TT told Arakawa to withdraw from NHK if she was still having boot problems because she was breaking in new boots. At that time she said they felt ok.

 

[rtureck]

thanks lavendar

 

[libra 1]

...my guess is that this boils down entirely to a contract situation, but I'm not sure. Do the skater's sign any sort of contract with the ISU regarding the GP events (and/or other ISU events?) What are the contract stipulations about withdrawing, and pursuing other show events, etc.? (please be patient - I'm sure the contractual stuff has been discussed here many times. It's just that my eyes glaze over!!)

Many of us sign contracts every day without even reading them or thinking about them. If the ISU DOES have contracts with skaters over ISU events, then the skaters should pay close attention to what they sign.

IDG

Plushenko has no contract with ISU whatsoever, and mind you, he is not ISU property .

Libra - from Russia, where world's best skater lives whom ISU tries to make a slave

 

[Ptichka]

Libra - from Russia, where world's best skater lives whom ISU tries to make a slave

Libra, did you honestly get an impression that Piseev was fully behind Plushenko?

 

[euterpe]

According to Speedy's letter, Michelle, Sasha, Plushenko, the Grushgons, Shizuka, and any other skaters who withdrew from GP events and yet competed or performed (or are scheduled to compete or perform) in other events or shows, can be subject to banning from ISU and Olympic championship events.

Michelle, Sasha and Shizuka are all planned competitors in the Marshall's December event, which takes place within the Grand Prix schedule (the GPF is about a week later). The Grushgons performed in a US club show the week before withdrawing from SA (and have since withdrawn from CoC). Plushenko has been touring with an ice show in Europe (and also appeared in a show in Japan) while skippings his first two GP events.

Apparently, Kwan and Plushenko are the main targets of Speedy's wrath.

 

[rtureck]

Apparently, Kwan and Plushenko are the main targets of Speedy's wrath.

Is Speedy making the rules up as he goes?

 

[SailorGalaxia518]

I don't think that the ISU would do something like that. I mean Michelle Kwan has not skated in the Grand Prix Series for the past 3 seasons and the ISU hasn't done anything. I mean she is still skating at worlds. Yes, she is assigned at least two Grand Prix events but the ISU gives you up to at least two weeks prior to the start of the Grand Prix Series if you want to drop out and that is what Michelle Kwan did. She dropped out because she needed mre training time in preparation for nationals.

 

[Mathman]

To me, one thing that this controversy brings out is how much easier show skating must be than Grand Prix level competition. Michelle doesn't blink at skating 40 shows in 40 days for COI, but training for and participating in two GP events plus the GP final is more than she is willing to take on. Same with Sasha and Shizuka.

Yet these show performances are not cakewalks. The skaters do triple jumps and a full repertoire of spins and moves in the field. As for the cheesefests, the competition is genuine and intense, and the performances do not seem to be watered down at all. Michelle did 6 triples at Campbells, Shizuka and Miki Ando did triple-triples. Sasha gave the finest performance of her career at Marshall's last year, and Evgeny always does a quad or two when he participates.

The Grand Prix events must be very expensive to stage. There are all those sub-events, such as compulsory dance, that do not attract any audience at all. The CoP has introduced more expenses for computer hardware and software and extra training for the judges.

Here is my secret dream. Michelle, Sasha, Shizuka and Evgeny will say, nuts to you, Speedy, we'll start our own thing, based on the Campbell's, Marshall's format. (One gala show, no poorly attended and untelevised SP spread over several days, get all the big names to come, offer big prizes sponsored by television revenue.) ((Oh, wait -- that's just what they have done, LOL.))

The Grand prix events will still be of great interest to skating fans. But I think it is unrealistic to expect them to be money-makers for the ISU or for the competitors.

Mathman

PS. ILuvTodd, Spokane rocks! They did a super job with Skate America a couple of years ago.

PPS. Speaking of the responsibility of skaters to step in and save the ISU's cookies, Michelle did just that when Sarah Hughes withdrew from Skate America in 2000 and Michelle agree to save the day (in terms of audience draw) by taking her place -- it worked for me, anyway, LOL.