Plushenko will honour us with his presence in 2010!

[katha]

I gotta say, even though I prefer some of the other men, an Olympic podium with Plushenko, Joubert and Lysacek would in many ways be a dream come true. Can you imagine the exaggerated bashing, foaming at the mouth and head-exploding that would go on at the skating forums. It would be a thing of beauty.

Back on topic, really impressed with Plushenko's SP. Cool costume. I suppose there's no changing his love for Martin music now. The first two jumps were just out of this world, and something I have a difficult time seeing one of the other guys matching. Even the doubled lutz just seemed like a minor blip and not like a serious mistake. He just owned the building IMO. Yeah, he's still rusty in places and who knows if he has the stamina for a full LP yet, but it's great that he's come back IMO. The other men need to step it up now, no more winning with five triples and no quad etc.

 

[evangeline]

I gotta say, even though I prefer some of the other men, an Olympic podium with Plushenko, Joubert and Lysacek would in many ways be a dream come true. Can you imagine the exaggerated bashing, foaming at the mouth and head-exploding that would go on at the skating forums. It would be a thing of beauty.

I quake in fear even at the mention of such a podium.

 

[Dee4707]

I don't know what her problem is lol

Her owner????

 

[Tonichelle]

Her owner????

if that were true she'd love Kurt and Scott... but alas!

 

[beep_beep]

"I don't feel like skating anymore, I'll withdraw from Europeans" "Now I feel like skating again, I found a great Flamenco" "Bahhh, the judges don't like me anymore, I got only 5th place - I don't feel like skating anymore" "Olympic season plus Wilhelm Tell, let's go skating again" "COP is evil, it's detrimental to my creativity and artistry" "I am better at representing America" "But I am not fake, see how real I am?" "I don't like him as a person" "You got nooooo Quaaaad" "But I goooot good spins" "You dissed my buddy Jeff last season, I hate youuuuu" "But I gooooot Quaaaaad" "Beh, but I goooot transitions" "But I gooooot Quaaaaad"

You pretty much summed up the entire last season...

 

[Ladskater]

Well Kurt was gracious and welcomed Plushenko back. However, I don't share the sentiments here..."he has been there, done that" Let some of the newer kids on the block have a chance at the Olympics for goodness sakes!

 

[katha]

Next try after the forum ate my first message.

Well Kurt was gracious and welcomed Plushenko back. However, I don't share the sentiments here..."he has been there, done that" Let some of the newer kids on the block have a chance at the Olympics for goodness sakes!

But it doesn't quite work that way, does it? If the "newer kids" want to win at the Olympics they will have to step it up and deliver. I thought Plushenko's PCS for the LP were quite reasonable (yeah, his "home judges" overdid it, but so does the Canadian judge for Chan, the US judge for Lysacek etc.), he actually got dinged for Transitions...or lack thereof. He did lay down the jumps, though. He has no problems with triple axels and is capable of doing a quad, a second quad, one of those in combination with a triple, mind you. I don't remember too many men doing that in the last four years...

And that's just the crux of the matter IMO. Plushenko saw that this field is talented, yes, but also vulnerable and inconsistent and thought that he could still keep up. And he was right. That's not his fault, but the "fault" of the rest of the field for not upping the ante technically. Chan, Rippon, Weir, Takahashi, Oda, Kozuka, etc. may have the most beautiful transitions in the world, but should Plushenko land three quads in the competiton and they land none they have no one but themselves to blame if he wins. This is still a sport after all, and jumps do count.

 

[Tonichelle]

But it doesn't quite work that way, does it? If the "newer kids" want to win at the Olympics they will have to step it up and deliver.

agreed, can't deny that Evgeny a chance to compete... and it appears he took it seriously...

didn't Kurt (whom I love) also stick around for a third try. He may not have retired or hid out for a season or two, but people still argued otherwise... last I checked he didn't make the podium even though I'd argue he was the best skater out there. It all depends on that night.... if Evgeny doesn't stay on his feet, they can't "just give it to him..."

just means everyone has to stand up

 

[Buttercup]

agreed, can't deny that Evgeny a chance to compete... and it appears he took it seriously...

didn't Kurt (whom I love) also stick around for a third try. He may not have retired or hid out for a season or two, but people still argued otherwise... last I checked he didn't make the podium even though I'd argue he was the best skater out there. It all depends on that night.... if Evgeny doesn't stay on his feet, they can't "just give it to him..."

I don't think it's the third try people are objecting to; Shen and Zhao are going to skate in their fourth Olympics and have two medals. Plushy isn't even the only male skater who will be in his third Olympics - Brian Joubert, KvdP and Stephane Lambiel all skated in SLC (fun fact: KvdP had the best finish of the three). I think it's the combination of his being away from skating for the full Olympic cycle, the fact that unlike S/Z, he has his gold already, his perceived arrogance, and the very high marks he receives, which many feel are unwarranted considering the non-jump content of his programs.

Can we bring back Kurt for these Olympics?

 

[seniorita]

This is not better line than *joubert should not win the olys with this program*...where is the rule of ISU that you can have your gold and dont come back?Like you have your breakfast, no more for today?
perceived arrogance??at least he keeps it on the ice not outside of it..high marks???Sure..Can we make a list of last season marks and who deserved what?Is plushenko the only one who gets high marks?
Seems that evgeni is no winner in anything he does...Up until recently he was the totally incapable of being up to a level and his comeback was just PR...now that he actually came back and looks like he is serious again ...who can deny him his participation?Like *Evgeni go, we want our favorite to win this time?* Shen and Zhao skated for one more year, is that the big difference?
I think we agreed that olympics it is not coronation of someone skating in full 4 years circle, it is the competition of the one night.

 

[Buttercup]

Look, I phrased it as mildly as I could. Did I say he shouldn't have won RC/CoR? Did I make nasty comments about him? I said perceived arrogance. I don't know him personally, but his public persona rubs me the wrong way.

I'm not a fan of Plushenko's skating, and I don't like the way he's marked. Should he have won CoR? Sure, for certain. Should he have gotten the marks he did? I think not. If this is a sign of things to come, then absolutely, I am not a happy camper. Not because Plushenko came back, of course anyone who can skate can come back if they want, but for getting undeservedly high marks when some of the other skaters have to work much harder to get that sort of love from the judges. Sure, this is the judges' responsibility to mark correctly, but I don't like all this smug, I am the king stuff. I think it's not a level playing field, and I want to see skaters (of course I'd rather it were my favorites) win on merit and not on reputation, and I'm worried that won;t be the case in Vancouver - because he's not the only one getting overmarked.

Have I been any harsher in my reaction here than when I thought other skaters were overmarked? You've read my posts here for a while now, so you know I haven't. I think you're one of the nicest people here, I'm truly happy you that you got to go to Moscow and had a great experience watching him skate well this weekend, but I won't change my mind on this .

Shen and Zhao skated a full season post-Torino. They didn't make a spectacle of their comeback, announcing it then changing their minds seemingly every off season; their names just showed up in the GP assignments. Surprise! They're likable, and generate a lot of good will for their classy behavior in the past two Olympics: not getting dragged into the pairs debacle in SLC, and skating even though they had zero time to train due to Zhao's injury in 2006. I remember the standing ovation they gave the Zhangs after the LP in Torino (along with P/T). They never complained about finishing behind Z/Z, and the Zhangs were overmarked in the LP in that event. I want them to have another chance, and I want them to win.

That's it. Let's never speak of it again so as not to ruin our friendship - it's worse than politics... it's skating politiks!

This is not better line than *joubert should not win the olys with this program*...where is the rule of ISU that you can have your gold and dont come back?Like you have your breakfast, no more for today?
perceived arrogance??at least he keeps it on the ice not outside of it..high marks???Sure..Can we make a list of last season marks and who deserved what?Is plushenko the only one who gets high marks?
Seems that evgeni is no winner in anything he does...Up until recently he was the totally incapable of being up to a level and his comeback was just PR...now that he actually came back and looks like he is serious again ...who can deny him his participation?Like *Evgeni go, we want our favorite to win this time?* Shen and Zhao skated for one more year, is that the big difference?
I think we agreed that olympics it is not coronation of someone skating in full 4 years circle, it is the competition of the one night.

 

[seniorita]

lol we wont ruin friendship because you dont like plushyNo way!!!!Look situation with Ant, he can critisize evgeni as much as he wants, he is still my fav poster
I m not excited with plush programs but it is always what you see..i think evgeni was fine these weekend considering his marks(except for the couple of *too exchited* judges*) and he did pretty well ..maybe it is hard to believe but he is also popular among people and he is not so posh as you might think, just look his press conference or his replies concerning his appearance or his competitors.
last year jouby skated a moulin rouge of a short program and got bigger marks...of course he pelvic thrusts better than evgeniAnd why evgeni has the i am the king smug when joubert did the exact same one year ago?I just dont get it.
And after he came back and did have a decent first skate,and after watching the splat at TEB, he is the king by the way(totally biased)
I m off to sightseeing at last, glad competition is over cause apart from mullet /nose power I want to see so many stuff here

 

[Mafke]

Random Plushenko thoughts.

1. He has every right to return to eligible competition. More power to him. The fact that he already has an ogm is irrelevant, if other skaters don't want him there, then knock him off the podium. He has no obligation to let others 'have their turn'.

2. He has every right to his 'arrogant' public demeanor (it ain't braggin' if ya dun it) If it rattles and demoralizes the competition that's _their_ problem not his (like Witt staring at her competitor's performances, if it bothers you stare back).

3. I have huge respect for the fact that he's doing real sit spins now. I find that more impressive than his 4-3 (I don't like quads and it's not a nemesis jump for him).

4. I don't have any problem with the generous marks on his Rost SP (let the judges have their sentimental moments too). I notice the the LP marks were already a little more realistic. It's not like the other men (besides Kozuka who was robbed a little) brought their A-game there.

5. The judges are still giving him _way_ too much credit for choreography (there was none) and transitions (ditto). Clearly the judging consensus is that individual PCS cannot vary too much for any one skater. This is stupid. He has brilliant overall skating skills and hardly any choreography 8.00 and 5.00 seem like reasonable marks for those two components respectively (and the 5.00 may be a bit generous given absolutely free reign I'd give him about 3.00 for ch and tr).

6. Not many people noticed amidst the euphoria of his return but the shine in his skating didn't really last much longer than the first two jumping passes in the SP. The slightly iffy jumps from Perm were back in the LP and the footwork looked like he was exhausted and more than once he seemed about a centimeter from falling. Also (unlike most here) I don't think he's going to improve much from here (we'll see at Europeans). His return to this point is hugely impressive but I really doubt if he can push it very much further.

7. I think he either forgot the final spin/pose or was too tired or too far off the music (or some combination of two or more). That he still managed to make that seem like self-confidence bordering on arrogance is impressive. He's the only male skater on the eligible scene now with a real mental game. Next to him all the rest seem like high strung and/or obssessive compulsive basket cases.

 

[janetfan]

Good post Mafke and I agree with most of what you have said.
But I suspect by Vancouver Plushy will be in much better shape and will have cleaned up and fine tuned his programs.

I didn't mind his "arrogance" particularly since his return to international competition was in Russia. I am sure his fans loved it - and it didn't seem to offend the judges.

Different skaters have different ways of expressing themselves.
Katarina and Sasha "flirted" with the crowd/judges for years and now some people are complaining about Yuna getting a little "posey." What rubbish!

Many fans love "Johnny for being Johnny" and even if I am not his fan I see he is different and colorful at times.

It is interesting that Joubert fans might be upset by a few of Plushy's antics yesterday. With the exception of Kat, no other skater I can recall has built an entire career based so much on their good looks and selling a little extra sizzle to the crowd than Joubert has. It is his entire persona on the ice and I see nothing wrong with it.

What is so wrong about Plushy making a statement? He is the defending Olympic Champion and he has as much right (or more imo) to express himself on the ice.

We have a saying here "If you're gonna talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk."

Isn't that all that Plushy did yesterday?

 

[Tonichelle]

Brian Boitano came back to competitive skating after six years... as did G&G pretty much... it's not like Plush was the first!

 

[i love to skate]

7. I think he either forgot the final spin/pose or was too tired or too far off the music (or some combination of two or more). That he still managed to make that seem like self-confidence bordering on arrogance is impressive. He's the only male skater on the eligible scene now with a real mental game. Next to him all the rest seem like high strung and/or obssessive compulsive basket cases.

I agree with your post except for this statement. The only men that I think would be considered high strung right now are Joubert and Weir. The rest of the contenders seem to be fairly level headed and focused.

 

[Buttercup]

I agree with your post except for this statement. The only men that I think would be considered high strung right now are Joubert and Weir. The rest of the contenders seem to be fairly level headed and focused.

Really? Nobunari "my combinations, let me count them for you" Oda? Daisuke Takahashi with his one Worlds medal, despite all that talent? Jeremy Abbott and his meltdowns? Tomas the Hidden Czech? Stephane Lambiel and his "now you see me, now you don't" routine? If anything, Joubert is relatively consistent... I'd say Evan Lysacek is the most consistent this side of Plushenko, he just isn't as talented as the other top guys (sorry, Merrybari ).

 

[i love to skate]

Really? Nobunari "my combinations, let me count them for you" Oda? Daisuke Takahashi with his one Worlds medal, despite all that talent? Jeremy Abbott and his meltdowns? Tomas the Hidden Czech? Stephane Lambiel and his "now you see me, now you don't" routine? If anything, Joubert is relatively consistent... I'd say Evan Lysacek is the most consistent this side of Plushenko, he just isn't as talented as the other top guys (sorry, Merrybari ).

Well when you put it that way...maybe I'm mistaken. I guess I was trying to say their attitudes are fairly normal...I wouldn't call any of them "basket cases". I think Patrick has the best attitude as he has a life outside of skating and doesn't let skating consume him.

 

[Mafke]

.I wouldn't call any of them "basket cases". I think Patrick has the best attitude as he has a life outside of skating and doesn't let skating consume him.

I tend to use hyperbole to make my points clearer. Chan does have a good grounded attitude (not the same thing as a tough and/or winning mental game). Lysacek has an okay mental game (only compared to the field). Plushenko blows them all away (probably a combination personality type, Mishin and rivalry with Yagudin).

 

[Ximena]

I don't know if this is the right place to post it, (because it contains RC results) but this is Jennifer Kirk take on Plushenko's comeback

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/oly...er-kirk-plushenko-must-be-reckoned-with-.html