Posing for "Playboy" Magazine

[BronzeisGolden]

The only thing that bothers me is that figure skating has always been a popular sport with young children, especially young girls. I wouldn't want my daughter posing in "Playboy" ever. But, at the same time, it is entirely up to the person as to whether they pose nude or not. I won't criticize someone's decision...I've never been in that situation and who's to say I wouldn't have done the same thing. (Probably no, and wouldn't be asked to, lol) I certainly couldn't see Michelle doing it, and I'd have my jaw surgically sewn to the floor if Sarah Hughes ever did anything like that. But Katarina and Maria weren't really surprising.

 

[BronzeisGolden]

Americans:

Sasha Cohen - She has a Katarina-esque attitude about her...a fiery, makes-her-own-rules type of personality.

Tonya Harding - LOL....she's tried everything else, it certainly wouldn't hurt.

Nicole Bobek - I think she always wanted to be a "sexy" skater...but I just never saw her that way. I could see her doing something like that.

 

[Mathman]

I think I have to support Toni here. When 12-year-old girls deliberately set about to dress in "prostitute chic," they cannot then turn around and pretend that their feelings are hurt when people call them names.

Same with boys. If you wear your belt around your knees with the croch of your pants dragging the floor and tripping you with every step, and showing your polka dot underwear, you can't blame adults and older children from calling you a clown.

Where are the parents? We are supposed to be guiding our kids' fashion sense, LOL.

About adult skaters posing for playboy, I agree with Bronzeisgolden, that they should take into account the fact that they are role models for young children.

Mathman

 

[mpal2]

I saw Kat in an interview where they asked about the pictures. I can't remember where or when so hopefully someone else will. She basically admitted that it was the publicity and the boost to her self esteem.

She said Playboy had been asking her to pose for several years since her Olympic wins. She was completely against the idea but as she started to get older and they kept asking, she saw it as a compliment that an "older" lady was still seen as attractive.

 

[Norlite]

Same with boys. If you wear your belt around your knees with the croch of your pants dragging the floor and tripping you with every step, and showing your polka dot underwear, you can't blame adults and older children from calling you a clown.

Clown? Thank you Mathman, you have just made my point.


Toni,

I just think that we should be very careful in the names, and very graphic names at that, we are calling young women. Call them inappropriate, call them over-exposed, call them indecent, heck, If they wear their pants real low and expose their underwear, you can even call them clowns if you want

I realize you did not, nor do you ever mean to offend.

 

[peachstatesk8er]

I would just like to put in my two cents worth by pointing out that I heard that Katarina's photos were so heavily airbrushed, that to this day, it's a matter of conjecture as to how much of those snapshots were really her and not the handiwork of some photoshop ace.

That being said, I'd also like to mention that I've also heard that if Lipinski were to do a similar spread, she wouldn't be the first cast member of "7th Heaven" to've done so.

Even Niki Taylor and Britney Spears get airbrushed. To say it wasn't Kat in those pics is pure speculation.

 

[Lisa]

There is another point which might be worth considering: in Eastern Germany, there used to be a whole "nude culture". There were a lot of beaches and camping grounds for nudist, and apparently nobody ever took offense. (This is probably where a certain reputation of ours comes from, about "naked picnics" etc. . ) I suppose that Katarina Witt's attitude towards posing nude might be somewhat different from the average Western point of view. But that's only a guess, of course.
BTW, from what I've learnt on TV, the nudist tradition is regressing in Eastern Germany, people tend to believe it's a result of the reunification.

 

[Lisa]

As to the Russian ladies posing and the French boys in the steam room picture, is just a European thing. Americans are far behind the Europeans in Au Naturel.

Joe

Where does Alexei's famous sauna pic come from? Okay, he is Russian - but I used to believe it was from an American magazine, am I wrong?

PS: Panther's Alexei pic is the proof that a person can be totally dressed and still look ......

Only my point of view. Lisa

 

[Pookie]

I'm with Toni and Mathman. I say dress like you have a little bit of respect for yourself. For me that includes the leaving of the clothes on, in front of the camera, on the beach . . . .

Yes, I am an uptight prude and I like it that way.

 

[Mathman]

Norlite: Point well made. Point taken.

Lisa: ITA about Panther's Alexei pic. I could post a few pics of my favorite ladies, too -- fully clothed, but whoo-eeeeee!

Mathman

 

[NanSinger2]

As someone who has actually seen the pictures, they were done as tastefully as these types of pictures can be. I could definately see that they had been "touched up" somewhat. I'm sure that in addition to the reasons Katt mentioned, financial motivation surely had to be a consideration.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Let me ask a question to all of those who hate seeing teens dress "distastefully."

Where is the line drawn where a girl dresses either tastefully or distastefully?

Some people are more open-minded and it takes a really revealing outfit for them to consider the girl dressing "skanky" whereas to other people, just showing your shoulders is "skanky".

That's why I never thought a really strict dress code should be imposed on teens or young people because people have different opinions on what is distasteful and what is not. Futhermore, people who want to impose strict dress codes at school because they fear that allowing young people to dress the way they want to will make them "skanky", then they are wrong because a "skanky" person will be skanky no matter how they dress anyways.

I think the only time a dress code is really needed is in the workplace, not in school or elsewhere that is mandatory to attend.

A lot of the girls posing for playboy are doing it for the money, and I believe they should do what they have to do to pay the bills and eat...as long as they learn how to stay ahead in the businiss and not be taken advantage of.

 

[windspirit]

I'm having a déjà vu. There was a very similar thread at the old GS, wasn't it? As for Katarina's choice, beside the fact that Playboy's photos are ridiculously airbrushed and posed I don't see the sin. It's just a human body, get over it.

What bring the old diry men into the arena so they could drool all over the little girls coming up.

Believe me, Panther, they're already there! I've been unfortunate enough to sit next to one at one of the local shows. It was his wife who dragged him there, I doubt it was some skater's nude photos. Btw, if someone who saw Katarina in Playboy went to see a skating show or a competition I'd call that a progress. I'd bet there're quite a few men whose love for the sport started in a similar way.

 

[windspirit]

Originally posted by Mathman
I think I have to support Toni here. When 12-year-old girls deliberately set about to dress in "prostitute chic," they cannot then turn around and pretend that their feelings are hurt when people call them names.

Pretend? Can't the girls who dress in "prostitute chic" have their feelings hurt for real? And "cannot" sounds as if they didn't have the right to feel hurt or offended, "because they deserve it." That is, name calling is justified if someone "asks" for it (for example, they dress in a way which is not to our tastes), and, according to what you wrote above, they do.

When a grown-up woman dresses like this, she may have her, not always pure, reasons, but when a 12-year-old kid does it -- all she wants to do is to fit in. I, too, don't approve of kids dressing like that, and I wouldn't let mine do it. And when I'd try to explain to her why not, I'd tell her she's too young to be doing something she can't predict the consequences of, or the implications some people might draw (and I don't even mean the moral judging, but some nasty people thinking up dirty things and acting on them). I'd also tell her that a human body is a very powerful thing (and a beautiful one, too), and she couldn't wholly use hers until she really owned it, and that'd be when she's physically and psychologically mature to be responsible for her choices. Note that nowhere did I use "because only sluts dress like that". There's no need to use emotionally charged language or names, especially when talking to or about kids.

 

[rtureck]

when a 12-year-old kid does it -- all she wants to do is to fit in.

Isn't that over simplifying the motive of the 12 y/o a bit? 12 y/o may want to fit in, but are all/ most of her peers dressing in "prostitute chic"? I hope not. Where are/ is this 12 y/o's parent(s), teacher(s), older sibling(s)? I dare say it is not the norm for 12 y/o to dress "prostitute chic", it is probably a RARE few cases. I guess if people call her names, her feelings will be hurt, and those are genuine feelings, but even at 12, this young lady needs to own up to some responsibillity of her choice, and definitely her parents are reponsible for letting her walk out of the door in "prostitute chic", I mean who buy the clothes for her?

 

[Norlite]

Isn't that over simplifying the motive of the 12 y/o a bit?

Changed my mind......sorry!

 

[rtureck]

Do you seriously think a 12 year old has a more complex motive?

Since most 12 y/o are not dressing in "prostitute chic", I do not think there is really much peer presure to fit in re: prostitute chic . Maybe the pressure comes from the family, e.g. some parents want their daughter to win beauty pageant. I know, dressing up as a beauty queen is not quite the same as dressing "prostittue chic".

 

[Norlite]

Sorry rtureck, you were too fast for me, I didn't want to take the thread more off-topic than it was.

:\

 

[Mathman]

Well, having had my head handed to me about "prostitute chic," I will now sally forth into why I was disappointed that Katarina Witt posed for these pictures.

The essence of pornography, as contrasted with erotic art, is that by intention it debases and degrades the female subject. Even in soft-core fluff like Playboy, the "girls" are "Playmates," i.e., sex toys for the pleasure of the powerful male reader. If I am fully clothed and you are naked, then I am powerful and you aren't. Look at the male "power suit" -- fully covered from foot to neck. If you so much as leave your collar unbuttoned, you are not as powerful as the guy who has his collar all cinched up around his neck with a necktie. Silly, but there you are.

(Joke: How do we know that women are smarter than men? Women don't wear neckties.)

Women businesspeople are seldom taken seriously by men in the workplace because they wear short skirts for us to look up, show cleavage for us to look down, etc. -- they don't take themselves seriously, so why should men take them seriously?

The reason that people want to see celebrities naked is that this knocks them off their pedestal down into the muck where us commoners roll around. Britney Spears may be a millionaire, while I don't know where my next meal is coming from, but by God I am still better than she is because I've seen her near naked. When Katarina Witt posed for Playboy she took herself out of the category "Olympic champion" and demoted herself to "Bunny."

I'm not saying that any of these societal attitudes is good or right, it's just the way it is.

Windspirit: When I said that girls "cannot pretend to have their feelings hurt," what I meant was simply that choices have consequences. If you rob a bank on Friday, you "cannot (justly) contend that the police are picking on you" when they come to arrest you on Saturday.

This, by the way, is exactly what characterizes the criminal mind. Habitual criminals cannot understand that their actions have consequences. Their feelings genuinely are hurt when these consequences occur. Children must be taught better.

TerrificGirl, I think it's kind of a moot point, about letting teenagers make their own choices about dress. They are going to do it anyway (it = make their own choices about how to dress, LOL) no matter what we tell them. So all we can do is hope that somehow they turn out all right in the end. Mostly they do.

If you have a 7th or 8th grader who dresses in a ridiculous fashion, I think that an appropriate punishment is this. Take a picture of him/her, and two years from now, show it to all of his/her friends.

About peer pressure, and doing whatever the other kids do: The latest fad in Detroit among middle school children (6th to 8th grades) is oral sex. This isn't real sex, see. Just ask Bill Clinton.

OK, is there anyone I haven't offended yet?

Mathman

Editied in view of RTureck's post, below.

 

[rtureck]

Sorry to be off topic here

Mathman:

"I think it is kind of a moot point, about letting teenagers make their own choices about dress. They are going to do it anyway, no matter what we tell them. So all we can do is hope that somehow they turn out all right in the end. Mostly they do."

I don't think teenagers are going to do
it (however you want to define it) anyway, no matter what we tell them.

Actually the teenage years is a time for forming IDEALS, and sky is the limit kind of dreams. What were your dreams when you were in jr high and high school? I remember day dreaming about a bright sky is the limit kind of future with my friends. We were all going to Africa to build hospitals and improve the life and health care there. Some of my friends dreamt about winning the Nobel prize....

Many teenagers are very willing to listen to their parents / teachers with these goals and ideals in their minds.