Potential

[RealtorGal]

When I see a skater such as Carolina Kostner, who seems to have all the potential to be a great skater--beautiful line, excellent technique, etc.--yet who seems to be missing the "it" factor, I wonder whether she will ever go from being a solid technician and pleasant skater to a GREAT, ARTISTIC SKATER.

What needs to happen at this point in such a skater's development? Is a coaching change needed?

There have been other skaters in this position, who overcame such obstacles to become the great artists we now remember them as: Paul Wylie and Rudy Galindo come to mind. They won World and/or U.S. titles when it counted and went on to wonderful professional careers.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this subject.

 

[jesslily]

Carolina Kostner needs to have a real talented choreographer and make an outstanding program. Her music tends to cut from 3 or more original music. It makes her program no central highlight. She also tends to use an overused music which is even not suitable to her skating style. Last year at worlds even Terry Genon joked"Have you heard this music before?". It looks like she and her coach are really working very well together. There is no need to switch. Good music choice and choreographer will help Carolina significantly.

 

[thisthingcalledlove]

Last year at worlds even Terry Genon joked"Have you heard this music before?". It looks like she and her coach are really working very well together. There is no need to switch. Good music choice and choreographer will help Carolina significantly.

I remember that. Her ending music was...Turandot LOL, which had nothing to do with the other songs, other than it was performed by Vanessa Mae. Her program followed no theme, or anything to relate to the audience with. It began, I think, with Storm, which has been overused. Her music cuts are like the music cuts in the 80's, when skaters would hop from one piece to the next (I went to the local rink to get some ice time...and this girl, who I assume was a novice was practicing her free skate...it began with Seisouso from Cirque Du Soleil: Quidam, then the slow section was Pachelbel's Cannon...then back to Seisouso, which has a tango sound...it didn't fit at all).

 

[hrmsk8ngnutt]

Carolina Kostner needs to have a real talented choreographer and make an outstanding program. Her music tends to cut from 3 or more original music. It makes her program no central highlight. She also tends to use an overused music which is even not suitable to her skating style. Last year at worlds even Terry Genon joked"Have you heard this music before?". It looks like she and her coach are really working very well together. There is no need to switch. Good music choice and choreographer will help Carolina significantly.

Kurt Browning is listed as one of her choreographers. Her LP music is to Prokofiev Piano Concertos 1 and 3. We'll see what happens at Skate Canada. I'm looking forward to watching. Here's a link to her ISU bio.

http://www.isufs.org/bios/isufs00004864.htm

Herm (sk8ngnutt)

 

[Vash01]

She needs time to mature.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Kostner is still a Short Program skater. She tends to run out of gas after 2.5 minutes. It's amazing to me that in the three competitions I've seen her live, she seemed like a completely different skater in the SP.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm afraid the music goes right through her and she just lets it. One can learn timing even with a metronome, and a choreographer can teach phrasing but it's better if one has this naturally. Lyrical music will not be good for Carolina, imo. I think she should use a piece where the beat is obvious and varies little.

Unlike her boyfriend, I don't see her as a grand artistic skater but one of strong content skating.

Joe

 

[tharrtell]

Nothing about Carolina's skating above her ankles grab me. I haven't seen her skate this year, but up through last year, I found her coltish and lacking extension and any true feeling. She's fast and can do some nice jump combinations, but I don't think that is enough to make her a great skater. I'd love to see more attention to detail and holding positions in her skating, but even then, I don't know if that would be enough to take her to the top. As other people have said, some things cannot be taught.

I hadn't heard the Terry Gannon comment. Funny and pretty astute coming from a basketball player.

Who is her boyfriend?

 

[LimeZest]

Stephan Lambiel

 

[tharrtell]

Stephan Lambiel

Nice!

 

[JonnyCoop]

I think Carolina would benefit from working with a coach who truly inspires her, much in the way that Elena Tcherkaskaya inspired Angela Nikidonov. Prior to working with Tcherkaskaya, Angela was a talented skater with a lot of potential who basically went out there and did a lot of sloppy, lazy programs; Tcherkaskaya really turned her around and made her into the skater she is today. (OK, granted, Angela still has a bit of a problem with completing all her triples, but that's a different issue entirely IMO). Fumie Suguri is another skater who turned it around, mainly from her work with Lori Nichol. I think Carolina could benefit from a similar arrangement.

Carolina is the perfect example (Miki Ando is another) of a skater who is vaulted to the top (or near top) of the junior ranks based solely on her jumping ability. We have seen so many over the years who have "all the tricks" but are rather dull to watch once you cut out all the triples. This IMO is due to the fact that under the 6.0 system, the artistic marks were overinflated; one could go out there with jumps on a 5.8 level and artistry on a 4.8 level -- but would the marks accurately reflect that? Tho I am no fan of the CoP, I hope we will start seeing more accurate reflections of the artistic side of the program, especially on the junior level.

 

[RealtorGal]

You all raise excellent points. I mention Carolina as an example, but there are many others who also fit into this "almost but not yet and maybe never if something doesn't change drastically" category. I think the key word is "inspired"--skaters such as Carolina don't seem inspired by skating, and, as a result, do not inspire their audiences. If a coach is not imparting this to these kinds of students, they may never discover how to change that because they don't realize that this a core problem.

 

[lulu]

I agree that Carolina seems to be very much a short program skater; and she does have tons of potential. I just hope that we will someday see that potential realized. But as Vash said, she is still very young.

I don't agree that it was Carolina's jumps alone which vaulted her to the top of the junior circut. While her jumps certainly played a big part, Carolina has also got some of the best basics and speed. I think that is what held her up in (5th?) place last year at worlds-even with 2 falls.

Maybe she would also benefit on working on endurance exercises as well?
I also agree she does have a slightly "coltish" look to her skating; but I still very much enjoy her-when she is on a good day.

 

[RealtorGal]

I also agree she does have a slightly "coltish" look to her skating; but I still very much enjoy her-when she is on a good day.

That's what they used to say about Sarah Hughes... and we all know how THAT turned out!

 

[Tonichelle]

Kurt, IMHO, wasn't the "great artist" he's known to be until 1993 when Casablanca came into play

I think a lot of things have to happen. A skater needs to have a choreographer who knows them to where the skater trusts them completely. The choreographer in turn knows what a skater will be comfortable with and will push them to excel in those sort of programs.

A skater needs to be mature, Kurt came on with a whole new look after his horrible 92 olympic run and I think it made him sit down and realize that his skating wasn't much when he fell... and that it can all go bye bye with a blink of an eye... I will always wonder if he would be the skater he was today had he not had the disaster in 92

the skater has to have confidence, know their program well enough that they don't have to think through it, have the drive, and be able to put it all together...

and that's just my 2 cents... after all I can't skate to save my life ha ha!

 

[diver chick]

Carolina reminds me of a young Irina Slutskaya. She has all the technique and ability of a great skater but she has not yet matured and found a style that suits her.
She would certainly benefit from a good choreographer and maybe having had help from Kurt Browning we will see an improvement this season.

I think that maybe she would also benefit from a good fitness coach because as someone said she tends to run out of gas in the long program.

I don't know much about her coaching situation but maybe she would benefit from spending some time away from the ice and learning about expression and movement, perhaps a drama/mime class would help.

 

[R.D.]

But, potential in this case is nothing more than "what could be"- in other words, other people's expectations or fantasies. Many people have so-called "potential" but don't "realize" it or don't "live up to it".

In Kostner's case, the best thing (and this goes for any other skater) would be to pick a piece that suits her style, showcases her strengths, and hides her weaknesses. A skater with strong artistic ability should pick a more emotional or slower piece. A strong technical skater IMO would be better suited to something fast. It's up to whomever choreographs the program to do the rest. A skater's program should showcase her strong points and either hide, disguise or minimize her weaknesses. That way, the only real way for her to disrupt the flow of the program would be to fall. IMO, that's the best approach to "realizing potential".

 

[LBC]

I think being tagged as a skater who has "potential" is the worst thing that can happen to them. Like Red Dog said it is other peoples expectations or fantasies of what could be. Hardly anyone can live up to a fantasy. Thus they are looked upon as a disappointment if they can't live up to it even though they could be looked at as a success under other standards. Carolina is a good skater and should be appreciated for what she can do now. What happens in the future is up to her.

 

[lulu]

. Thus they are looked upon as a disappointment if they can't live up to it even though they could be looked at as a success under other standards. Carolina is a good skater and should be appreciated for what she can do now. What happens in the future is up to her.

That is very true. And IMVHO , success is not how many medals you can win or how good you are. Success is how much you have improved and how much effort you put into it.

 

[R.D.]

Hardly anyone can live up to a fantasy. Thus they are looked upon as a disappointment if they can't live up to it even though they could be looked at as a success under other standards. Carolina is a good skater and should be appreciated for what she can do now. What happens in the future is up to her.

I agree, 100%. Potential is the highest standard for ANYONE to live up to, and on this yard-stick no one can be successful unless they are PERFECT. And, as we all know, no one is perfect. No, not even MK

I think a great example (God forbid) is Cohen. Although out of contention now, she HAS made improvements in the past seasons. Yet, if we measure her by the "potential" yardstick, she's a complete failure...can't skate a clean LP, can't hold it together, needs her programs watered down so she can focus, etc.

The only recent ladies skater that comes to my mind that can still be considered successful in terms of "potential" is MK. And even the extremists will complain she's a failure since she hasn't won the Olympics in two tries... :sheesh: