Program Recycling vs. Innovation

[gsk8]

Some skaters thrive by sticking to a signature style or even revisiting old programs — while others reinvent themselves every season, sometimes at the cost of consistency (and points!).

Should skaters play it safe with proven styles, or take risks and experiment even if it doesn’t always pay off?

Where do you think the balance should be? Can you give examples of positives and negatives?

 

[Mathman]

Here is a recent example.

This is the Kaori Sakamoto that we all know and love: power and grace.

Sakamoto's divine short program snags first place at Grand Prix Final | NBC Sports

Kaori Sakamoto's beautiful short program at the Grand Prix Final was just enough to put her into first place heading into tomorrow's free skate#NBCSports #Ka...

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Then out of the blue, it's All that Jazz with blonde hair.

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I got the feeling that she did this for herself. never mind the audience's expectations and never mind the points. She just wanted to do it.

 

[Mathman]

I think it is almost impossible for a skater to "reinvent himself" from one year to the next. Just a simple matter like correcting a technical weakness -- say, a bad Lutz edge -- after the old way has become a habit -- that's a tremendous challenge, I would think.

What I do admire, though, is a skater who can remain true to his own style but build on it season after season by adding new content and increasingly mature presentation.

Here is the essential Patrick Chan, master of the blade and of body control, in 2008.

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Not content, he went out and learnt him a quad. Here is his first quad in competition at the 2010 Liberty Summer Competition, recorded by a fan cam (too bad about the triple Axel, but oh well. ) Soon he was dpong two in the LP.

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The same season he began work on what was to become his masterpiece, using Elegy as an exhibition piece before presenting it as an SP the next year.

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[4everchan]

I think it is almost impossible for a sjkater to "reinvent himself" from one year to the next. Just a simple matter like correcting a technical weakness -- say, a bad Lutz edge -- after the old way has become a habit -- that's a tremendous challenge, I would think.

What I do admire, though, is a skater who can remain true to his own style but build on it season after season by adding new content and increasingly mature presentation.

Here is the essential Patrick Chan, master of the blade and of body control, in 2008.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Not content, he went out and learnt him a quad. Here is his first quad in competition at the 2010 Liberty Summer Competition, recorded by a fan cam (too bad about the triple Axel, but oh well. ) Soon he was dpong two in the LP.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

The same season he began work on what was to become his masterpiece, using Elegy as an exhibition piece before presenting it as an SP the next year.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

I agree that Patrick remained true to his own style and built on it season after season... but here's why I am posting here : Patrick started out as a skater who mostly skated to classical music masterpieces. (with the odd tango or take five mixed in there). When he returned to competition, he did use the Chopin LP but all the other seasons after, he went for music that meant something to him. Journey, Dust in the wind, Black bird, even Hallelujah... no more classical. I thought that he really reinvented himself at that point. So it's possible. I preferred the music Patrick used in the first half of his career but then, his skating in the second half was even more heartfelt because he had a better connection with the music chosen.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

There are some skaters/teams that re-inventing themselves and experimenting with styles are meant for. Others may require sticking to the same style. There are many reasons that go into each and none of them (usually) are wrong.
(Ex: Needing to recycle a program b/c you either have decided you didn't get to skate it to it's full potential or for monetary/funding reasons).

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Does anyone else think that Smart and Dieck have done something sort of inbetween this with the Dune 2 Free?

 

[gsk8]

I liked their Dune FS and would like to see similar programs in the future from them. A sequel or prequel? I'm game!

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I liked their Dune FS and would like to see similar programs in the future from them. A sequel or prequel? I'm game!

But is putting effort into making a new program that's similar to another a good use of their effort or would continuing with the previous program be the better idea?

I guess we'll find out soon!

 

[DancingCactus]

I think Shoma is someone who had a very distinct style but refinded it season by season so it was never boring, probably also thanks to Stephane. And he never used tired war horses or made them completely his own (Sholero comes to mind).
Piper and Paul always so something new but they alos always feel like Piper and Paul because of the way they use holds and skate as a unit.
Whereas imo Papadakis/Cizerone were pretty one note. Super elegant, but not a lot of range.
I don't like it when skaters use the same program for two seasons, even if it is as stellar as S/D's Dune. The exception for me is if they miss a good chunk of the previous season for some reason and they can still get some mileage out of the program. Kevin and Bolero comes to mind.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Sometimes I see a program and think "that looks like an Olympic program" (e.g. Turkkila/Versluis tango free dance, Aymoz Bolero). Which makes me happy they're being brought back for the Olympics. I'm also intrigued by the idea of updated versions of "classics" (e.g. Jason Brown Riverdance, Gilles and Poirier bringing back Vincent).

 

[Arriba627]

I prefer new programs every season and was always thankful Shoma had new programs (except for the one season where he didn't get to use his programs much the previous season because of Covid). When I think of his variety, I think of the 3 L's -- Legends (fun and funky), Loco (tango-esque program with sharp tango movements), and Ladies in Lavender (all choreographed by Mihoko Higuchi). He continued the variety with Stairway to Heaven, Turandot, Great Spirit, Last Kiss, Sholero, Shoboe Concerto, Mea Tormenta Properate, etc. Stephane and Kenji Miyamoto also gave him some very good and different choreos.

 

[rabidline]

For me it depends on the skaters. I personally hope younger skaters are able to change programs so that they can learn how to perform different styles and genres. But I don't really expect younger skaters and skaters from small feds to be able to change programs every season, because of the financial burden it can impose on them. New programs can be very expensive, I always remember Adam Rippon joking in The Runthrough podcast whether he's ready to remortgage his own house to have Lori Nichol choreograph 1 new program for him.

However... I do expect a bit more from top skaters who seems to have the financial means and support to get the best choreographers to work for them. Especially those who positions themselves as the artists of the sport- that position loses a bit of its prestige when the skaters recycle often.

 

[ladyjane]

I like the way Olivia Smart and Tim Dieck have handled it: a very succesfull programme last season with many asking them to repeat it, but they chose to make a new programme of part 2 of the Dune movies. a bit of both so to speak.

Or that Piper Gilles and Paul Paurier come with a renewed (so not the same) Vincent. some might call that recycling too. I don't. I loved that programme for them, and a renewed one might be just the thing!

 

[noskates]

I prefer new programs every season but also am aware of the time and money that goes into developing a new program. Sometimes it's out of a skater's hands whether they recycle or come in with something new. I think it takes a very long time to break in a new program and perfect it. Maybe, just maybe, that perfection and breaking in isn't going well enough for competition and they have to resort to the familiar. I guess each team or skater has a story behind why they've had to recycle a program. But there are those, also, I never get tired of watching.

 

[Mathman]

For me it depends on the skaters. I personally hope younger skaters are able to change programs so that they can learn how to perform different styles and genres. But I don't really expect younger skaters and skaters from small feds to be able to change programs every season, because of the financial burden it can impose on them.

This is an excellent point. Only the very tip-top of the tip-top skaters earn enough money from skating to pay a choreographer US$ 5000 - 10,000 for a new program. A young skater would need to have extremely rich and/or extremely indulgent parents to be in the game.

 

[TallyT]

Ehhh, this regularly comes up but it depends on the skater - some could change twice a year but would look exactly the same because of their little boxes on the hillside nature and style, and others, in Dick Button's words, do not "put out a performance you have seen anywhere else. A performance that, once executed, you will not be able to see for a second time."

It is what it is, a sport and an artform.