Proposal to raise minimum age rejected

[karne]

So, why was this proposal that's pertaining to figure skating and not speed skating submitted by the Dutch fed?

I have two theories.

1) They're doing somebody's dirty work for them. One of the feds who has a vested interest in raising the age has offered that if the Netherlands puts forward the proposal, they'll vote for something else in speed skating.

2) Netherlands just wanted to be the first to get to the mark, so they produced this garbage proposal to feel like they have moral superiority over the others who haven't suggested it yet.

 

[ancientpeas]

Well.... Midori Ito is still doing double axels so you may have to settle for "World and Olympics Silver Medalist"

I saw this! Midori is delightful. I just want to watch her and feel her joy. I'd take a silver to her winning gold.

 

[moriel]

I have two theories.

1) They're doing somebody's dirty work for them. One of the feds who has a vested interest in raising the age has offered that if the Netherlands puts forward the proposal, they'll vote for something else in speed skating.

2) Netherlands just wanted to be the first to get to the mark, so they produced this garbage proposal to feel like they have moral superiority over the others who haven't suggested it yet.

I dunno, if i was a representative of a fed that is doing someone else's dirty work, I wouldn't go to forums to discuss my proposal with random fans who have so say in the matter.
Considering how much they showed off on this forum defending it, i somehow suspect it could be second. It is not like he was scouting our opinion here, because proposal was already made, and it kinda looked like he expected we would be glad and give him positive feedback.

 

[chopinskate]

I saw this! Midori is delightful. I just want to watch her and feel her joy. I'd take a silver to her winning gold.

Can we please have this? She is still a joy, though I had questions about that artistic program.

Also, she has a better 2A at 48 than half the ladies today.

Midori Ito #WC2019-2022 + #OGM2022.

 

[el henry]

Jeroen Prins is a member of GS who has posted from time to time on this forum before this proposal. He also has an active Twitter account.

Any implication that he was “bought off” or “trading favors” is, IMO, despicable. He has always been one of the more vocal and active ISU members, whether or not you agree with his stance.

Any indication that he was coming for validation and was surprised at pushback is, IMO, . Anyone who spent any time on these fora knows how passionate the support for a 14 year old to jump jump jump can be.

I favor raising the age, whether or not it “harms” Alysa Liu. Not everyone is only concerned about their country’s skaters, at all costs.

 

[karne]

Any indication that he was coming for validation and was surprised at pushback is, IMO, . Anyone who spent any time on these fora knows how passionate the support for a 14 year old to jump jump jump can be.

I favor raising the age, whether or not it “harms” Alysa Liu. Not everyone is only concerned about their country’s skaters, at all costs.

Oh, will you get off your bloody high horse.

I've said a dozen times I'm not opposed to the discussion. But the proposal was nothing short of absolute bulldust. I want an actual, reasoned, well-thought out proposal, studies, evidence and so on before we talk about wrecking skaters' careers by suddenly jerking the age limit upwards. Jumping from 15-17 would be terrible.

Nothing will stop me being glad that this proposal got struck down, not even people claiming that by doing so I don't care about skaters' health.

 

[Tulipstar]

I have two theories.

1) They're doing somebody's dirty work for them. One of the feds who has a vested interest in raising the age has offered that if the Netherlands puts forward the proposal, they'll vote for something else in speed skating.

2) Netherlands just wanted to be the first to get to the mark, so they produced this garbage proposal to feel like they have moral superiority over the others who haven't suggested it yet.

Or maybe a small fed can also have their own opinion.

Please note that I don't agree with the raising of the age limit.

 

[Shayuki]

Jeroen Prins is a member of GS who has posted from time to time on this forum before this proposal. He also has an active Twitter account.

Any implication that he was “bought off” or “trading favors” is, IMO, despicable. He has always been one of the more vocal and active ISU members, whether or not you agree with his stance.

Any indication that he was coming for validation and was surprised at pushback is, IMO, . Anyone who spent any time on these fora knows how passionate the support for a 14 year old to jump jump jump can be.

I favor raising the age, whether or not it “harms” Alysa Liu. Not everyone is only concerned about their country’s skaters, at all costs.

Looking forward to you presenting the evidence that increasing the age limit will actually tangibly reduce injuries. My opinion is that it'd have the opposite effect so please prove me wrong if you're going to have such a condescending attitude here.

 

[shyne]

Stupid rule. Just award PCS correctly and don’t give skaters with junior program huge PCS

 

[flanker]

Jeroen Prins is a member of GS who has posted from time to time on this forum before this proposal. He also has an active Twitter account.

Any implication that he was “bought off” or “trading favors” is, IMO, despicable. He has always been one of the more vocal and active ISU members, whether or not you agree with his stance.

Any indication that he was coming for validation and was surprised at pushback is, IMO, . Anyone who spent any time on these fora knows how passionate the support for a 14 year old to jump jump jump can be.

I favor raising the age, whether or not it “harms” Alysa Liu. Not everyone is only concerned about their country’s skaters, at all costs.

As I have written already, you wouldn't stop the developing of skills of these young skaters by rising the age limit. The only thing you could achieve, maybe, is that the senior level competitions would be less interresting than the junior.
BTW why skaters like Caroline Konstner, KIm Yuna and many others could start theis senior leve career at the age of 15-16 without any issue? They didn't jeopardize their later succes with it. People like you are speaking as if this was never seen earlier.

 

[AlexRus]

You never read the proposal at all, did you?

NOWHERE in the proposal did it say ANYTHING about skaters' health. It only carried on with rubbish about idols and women being afraid and factually incorrect statements about age limits. There was no justification for the selection of 17 and how it was in any way better than what we have now, no studies or research provided, just garbage.

Proposal (Communication 2160):

Age limits for Single & Pair Skating / Ice Dance
a) In International Senior Competitions, ISU Senior Championships and the Olympic Winter Games only Skaters may compete who have reached at least the age of fifteen (15) seventeen (17) before July 1st preceding the Events, effective season 2020-2021.
Reason: • At Senior Championships and OWG, we need to show mature skaters with well-balanced programs.
• This will improve the image of our sport: media and audience would like to see “idols” who compete for a longer period of time

 

[el henry]

I don’t want quote all the posts, and have an even longer post, so I will try (it’s hard for me) to be concise.

1. I don’t mean to appear condescending. But I can only read so many written and used by the “other side”, (ETA: meaning posters opposed to the proposition are outwardly sarcastic and dismissive, not as my reaction) as though this were the worst proposal ever, and my litigation skills kick in to respond in kind. Maybe I need a job again

2. I have posted studies. Do they specifically address should 15 year olds compete in senior FS comps? Of course not, our sport is far too small for that.

3. Is this the best written proposal in the history of the sport? No. Did I conflate my own views onto the proposal? Yes.

Although do I think that taking all measures to extend the competitive life of a skater, which I think is the underpinning of the proposal, is a good thing? Yes I do.

I hope it comes up again, better worded and expanded. . And now I think I’m actually done

 

[noskates]

I personally think it should be all about the safety of the skater. Having worked with teenagers for years I can tell you there are 15 year olds and then there are 15 year olds. Kids develop physically at different stages but in general, a 15 year old is still a kid. As we've seen time after time, they're still growing and maturing. Letting these jumping beans keep pushing and pushing and jumping and jumping IMO severely limits their time in the sport. We're going to see more and more ankle, back and knee issues because in many cases their bones are not fully developed.

But - clearly some of the federations are all about the immediate gratification of a medals. When that skater can't skate anymore - what the heck! There are 3 more to take their place.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I personally think it should be all about the safety of the skater. Having worked with teenagers for years I can tell you there are 15 year olds and then there are 15 year olds. Kids develop physically at different stages but in general, a 15 year old is still a kid. As we've seen time after time, they're still growing and maturing. Letting these jumping beans keep pushing and pushing and jumping and jumping IMO severely limits their time in the sport. We're going to see more and more ankle, back and knee issues because in many cases their bones are not fully developed.

But - clearly some of the federations are all about the immediate gratification of a medals. When that skater can't skate anymore - what the heck! There are 3 more to take their place.

Hmm...I work with and around skaters who are teenagers and I don’t think any age limit is going to change how they train and prepare. You’d actually probably see the exact same injuries (training is more dangerous than competing) and more skaters disappear before ever making it to the main stage and it certainly doesn’t mean they weren’t great skaters. That’s just my personal experience though so take it as you will but I think it’s just as likely you’d just see shorter careers..maybe 3-4 years as most skaters start to lose interest around 20. Look at KO taking time off at what...22 years old and she is one of the best.. I get it because most people I know feel the exact same way. Even the ones who went to US Nationals rarely continue past 20.

Actually...skaters who compete at the elite levels may reduce their training risks as competitions approach. It isn’t entirely unreasonable to assume some skaters benefit from competing at a young age and having that goal of being in top shape for the competition and season.

As an aside...all this skaters only jump and push boundaraies is a little off base. These athletes train a lot more than jumping and certainly offer much more. Just because some insist it is does not make it so,

 

[Harriet]

We're going to see more and more ankle, back and knee issues because in many cases their bones are not fully developed.

There's also the issue of longer-term damage. Spinal and joint degradation that start earlier and get worse faster than they otherwise would; early-onset osteoporosis due to early loss of bone density etc. These may not impact a skater's active competitive career, but preventable damage that manifests later in life has to be taken into account too. It's on the same principal as making sure kids wear sunscreen, hats and shirts at the beach so they don't die of melanoma in their forties.