Question regarding the Russian ban

[CodyRhodesDiva]

Are skaters who were born in Russia but compete for other countries (with the exception of Belarus) exempt from the Russian ban due to Russia's ongoing war with Ukraine because I noticed that Anatasia Gubanov now competes for Georgia and Anisa Yefimova now competes for Germany?

 

[TT_Fin]

Are skaters who were born in Russia but compete for other countries (with the exception of Belarus) exempt from the Russian ban due to Russia's ongoing war with Ukraine because I noticed that Anatasia Gubanov now competes for Georgia and Anisa Yefimova now competes for Germany?

Alisa Efimova is born in Finland. She represented Finland as as avsingle skater until she was about 15 and moved to Russia when she turned to pairs.

 

[Jaana]

Gubanova has competed for Georgia since the season 2020-2021, and her last season for Russia was 2018-2019:

Anastasia Gubanova (singles skater) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Are skaters who were born in Russia but compete for other countries (with the exception of Belarus) exempt from the Russian ban due to Russia's ongoing war with Ukraine because I noticed that Anatasia Gubanov now competes for Georgia and Anisa Yefimova now competes for Germany?

Yes, they are exempt.
The an is against athletes representing Russia, rather than Russians per say.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

It's not people of Russian ethnicity who were banned, but Russia as a country, which includes people representing Russia who are neither Russian in ethnicity nor born in Russia, and also includes not just athletes but also officials like judges.

 

[Ivana]

It's not people of Russian ethnicity who were banned, but Russia as a country, which includes people representing Russia who are neither Russian in ethnicity nor born in Russia, and also includes not just athletes but also officials like judges.

Per ISU, this is correct. Another issue is whether the Russians not representing Russia hold also passport of the country they are representing. If not and the only passport they have is Russian, they may not be allowed to access certain countries.

 

[DSQ]

Per ISU, this is correct. Another issue is whether the Russians not representing Russia hold also passport of the country they are representing. If not and the only passport they have is Russian, they may not be allowed to access certain countries.

That’s not up to the ISU though. As far as they are concerned the ban only affects skaters representing those countries. The travel restrictions are more generally political.

 

[Ivana]

That’s not up to the ISU though. As far as they are concerned the ban only affects skaters representing those countries. The travel restrictions are more generally political.

It would be incredibly naïve if this was their only concern. Already at Worlds last year there were VISA issues preventing athletes from competing, this year Euros may be the same. If they intend to ban only athletes who represent Russia/Belarus all political bans should be taken into consideration, so those who hold the "wrong passport" but represent the "right country" are not affected when they shouldn't be.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

It would be incredibly naïve if this was their only concern. Already at Worlds last year there were VISA issues preventing athletes from competing, this year Euros may be the same. If they intend to ban only athletes who represent Russia/Belarus all political bans should be taken into consideration, so those who hold the "wrong passport" but represent the "right country" are not affected when they shouldn't be.

Except that at the time the ISU banned Russia from competing, the political and economic sanctions against Russia looked very different from the way they look today.

Also, what do you expect the ISU to do? Quite frankly, there's nothing they can really do. They can't influence which countries impose which sanctions on Russia and they also can't influence things like the lack of direct flights for those training in Russia but representing other countries. Changing the location of the planned events is also not a feasible option, as, once again, the new host country could also impose visa-affecting sanctions on Russia, in addition to the logistical and monetary nightmare of event relocation.
Additionally, the requirement to represent another country internationally (as a single's skater, the requirement only applies to one half of the pair/ice dance team) is to either have been a resident in the new country for at least a year (less common) or have citizenship of the new country (more common, oddly enough), so some of the issues would only apply to part of the originally Russians representing other countries. Skaters like Morisi, Nastya Gubanova or even more recent transfers like Inga Gurgenidze would not have a problem obtaining a visa (as they are all Georgian citizens) but might struggle flying out of Russia (as they still train there). I honestly can't even think of very many Russian skaters representing a different country but not having citizenship of their new country (and/or residing there) off the top of my head, most seem to have citizenship (as they are not training in or have never trained in the country they are representing).

 

[Ivana]

Also, what do you expect the ISU to do?

Have plan in place to allow the skaters that are not banned to enter the competitions and not be victims of political games. Work with federations, organizing committees and subsequently with governments if needed, once ISU entered the political game when they banned Russia/Belarus, they should play it.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Have plan in place to allow the skaters that are not banned to enter the competitions and not be victims of political games. Work with federations, organizing committees and subsequently with governments if needed, once ISU entered the political game when they banned Russia/Belarus, they should play it.

Federations and organizing committees have exactly zero say in who gets a visa. And why should governments care and make exceptions for skaters? In contrast to the ban by the ISU, the sanctions by the different governments aren't just supposed to hit anyone representing Russia in any official capacity, but all people with (solely) Russian citizenship/Russian residents. (In the hope of destabilising Russian economy and animating Russians to rebel against their political leaders)

And the issues skaters with only Russian citizenship but representing other countries might face are completely independent of whether or not Russia and Belarus are banned - Nothing would be any different if Russia and Belarus could still compete internationally. Except that you'd have a lot more skaters struggling to obtain visas.

And by the way, if you're not aware of this, the ISU has indeed gone out of its way and moved some skaters with (potential) visa issues to different GP assignments (something I don't remember the ISU ever doing). There's really not much else they can do.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Federations and organizing committees have exactly zero say in who gets a visa. And why should governments care and make exceptions for skaters? In contrast to the ban by the ISU, the sanctions by the different governments aren't just supposed to hit anyone representing Russia in any official capacity, but all people with (solely) Russian citizenship/Russian residents. (In the hope of destabilising Russian economy and animating Russians to rebel against their political leaders)

And the issues skaters with only Russian citizenship but representing other countries might face are completely independent of whether or not Russia and Belarus are banned - Nothing would be any different if Russia and Belarus could still compete internationally. Except that you'd have a lot more skaters struggling to obtain visas.

And by the way, if you're not aware of this, the ISU has indeed gone out of its way and moved some skaters with (potential) visa issues to different GP assignments (something I don't remember the ISU ever doing). There's really not much else they can do.

This is starting to feel a lot like the US open debate r.e. djokovic and vaccine.
The US/AU open was willing to let Djokovic compete, US/Australia wouldn't allow him entry - in the same way that the ISU are allowing these athletes to compete, but countries aren't allowing entry.

If the US open (and AO) - part of tennis, an extremely well funded sport with huge amounts of fans is unable to sway a government, what makes people think that the ISU - a badly funded sport with a niche fanbase, is able to sway governments in this matter.

 

[Ivana]

And by the way, if you're not aware of this, the ISU has indeed gone out of its way and moved some skaters with (potential) visa issues to different GP assignments (something I don't remember the ISU ever doing). There's really not much else they can do.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on the topic. Just one note, ISU has been now moving assignments for two seasons it all started with C-19 related issues on JGP, so it's not like they went out of their way in this case. They are trying I'm not saying they are not, but they could be trying harder.

 

[theblade]

It does become more complicated when skaters are part of teams in other countries. A mess all around.

 

[Amei]

It does become more complicated when skaters are part of teams in other countries. A mess all around.

Well as long as the skater holds another passport like Gubanova with a Georgian passport or Kurakova with a Polish passport I don't think or haven't heard it being an issue.

The NHL has a bit of this situation coming up, they have a couple teams set to open the season in Prague, the Czech Republic has told them not to bring Russian born players. There's not been (@ least that I've seen) official comment from the league but 1 of the team's that is supposed to go, their GM has made a statement that either all of them go or none of them go. But those guys have an players union that will (or should) fight for them. But the NHL has a better ability to just keep the games at home and tell the Czech Republic they aren't going to come, ISU has struggled to get competition venues based on the delays with announcing GP assignments this year.

But it's really putting the cart before the horse, ISU ban has to go first before really serious discussions happen about Russian skaters being able to get visas for competitions.

 

[theblade]

Yes, it's hard to see what issues will come up until they do.

Avonley Nguyen had Grigory Smirnov (skating for the US) briefly as her ice dance partner last season before his injuries led to his retirement. Not sure about other dance pairings with Russian partners passport-wise but it's got to be a consideration moving forward.

 

[yesterday]

dance pairings with Russian partners passport-wise

Oh I'm sure you've heard about that one famous couple There's a whole thread somewhere around here.

 

[DSQ]

It would be incredibly naïve if this was their only concern. Already at Worlds last year there were VISA issues preventing athletes from competing, this year Euros may be the same. If they intend to ban only athletes who represent Russia/Belarus all political bans should be taken into consideration, so those who hold the "wrong passport" but represent the "right country" are not affected when they shouldn't be.

TBH competitors travel troubles isn’t really their problem. If it was we’d have the absurd image of the ISU lobbying governments about Visa restrictions, it’s not their place to interfere if say the USA wants to make it difficult for Russian passport holders to enter the country.