RA interview with MK mentions

[Jhar55]

Don't blame Michelle's fans for Sasha's inability to skate clean programs.
It's Sasha's nerves that kept her down.
The only reason Nancy is more well knowen is because ofr the wack on the knee. Never saw anything special in her skating.

 

[Mathman]

Fame, especially in sports, is fleeting. Today you're the Olympic champion, tomorrow you're yesterday's news.

Sasha's legacy, like Michelle's, is her body of work, not her stack of medals. (My fave -- Hernado's Hideaway ).

BTW, although I appreciated reading about Michelle in this interview, the most interesting things that Mr. Artunian revealed were about the differences in coach/client relations in Russia, the U.S. and Japan.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

BTW, although I appreciated reading about Michelle in this interview, the most interesting things that Mr. Artunian revealed were about the differences in coach/client relations in Russia, the U.S. and Japan.

Can you explain what Rafael actually said. Some of us, like me, can not get into FSU.

Joe

 

[MKFSfan]

This sums it up quite nicely:

Do you remember the story of Sasha Cohen and Tatyana Tarasova? It seemed that they had good progress, and I witnessed that as a coach. Cohen wasn’t afraid of work and understood some Russian. In other words, all the stars were aligned to make their collaboration possible. And still, Cohen left. She was not prepared to be under the constant pressure from her coach.

I was a bit slow to understand that if you work in the U.S., you need to control every word, every sentence you utter. That you shouldn’t overexpose students to your person. As a rule, skaters never say “no.” But if you see that you told them something, and they still continue to do what they did before, it means they do not want to accept your opinion. Insisting is useless. They will just start leaving.

 

[demarinis5]

I registered over at FSU just so I could read the entire article. RA was very frank and honest in this article and he has answered a number of questions that have been on this Kwan's fan mind. Michelle has not officially announced her retirement but this article should not leave any more doubt about her competitive career. For Michelle to still compete with her injuries shows me how much she loved competition. She has been a true artist on the ice and now knowing what she went through the last couple of years a warrior on the ice. She never gave up until her body gave out. I will miss Michelle an end of an era for me a new beginning for her. Good luck to her.

 

[R.D.]

It's an honest, open interview by someone close enough to have his facts straight. It is most peculiar that someone would call it dirt.

You know, dirt as in the "low down"? the "inside scoop"?

(what's the deal here? can't we just all get along? Kwan's had a unique career, and Cohen's wasn't bad either.)

 

[R.D.]

As for the topic of Cohen (how did we get to that), I'm in the middle. I remember after the (2002) Olympics she DID get a lot of attention (mainly in the press). But for some people, apparently that's not enough fame.

Yes, Cohen undoing herself when the title is practically in her grasp might have a lot to do with it. But face the facts: Kwan is more popular and is more well known (right now), so when she's around, her name trumps everyone else's. Not a slight to Cohen or any of the other skaters but that's just how it happens. Kwan has been around a lot longer, too and has the titles to back it up. Even if Cohen had won some of those titles, I still think Kwan would have been the sentimental favorite. Everyone simply loves her. I mean, look at Sarah Hughes, former olympic champ...does anyone outside of these forums even remember her name?

With Kwan now out of the spotlight, I think many people (and press) were trying to move the us skating spotlight over to Cohen...that was until Meissner won the world championship. With Cohen seeming to want fame elsewhere, Meissner is now in the spotlight (or you would think). But even a world championship wasn't enough to get her the fame (except here in Maryland)... since Cohen was still skating at the Campbell's and Marshall's event, HER name trumped everyone else's (because she is more known). I have no doubt that at 2007 Nats it will be Meissner's turn to shine with both Kwan and Cohen gone. But if Cohen suddenly should do a 180 and even begin HINTING that she wants to be there, expect the attention to shift immediately to her. It's just popularity, that all. It's Kwan, then Cohen, then Meissner and everyone else.

 

[lisadotdash]

She ruined a lot of careers, IMO. I can't count the number of competitions I saw Kwan's name and went "Oh geez, I know who's going to win." But yes, specifically Cohen, her beauty (yes inside and out) and her positions, were just lost under the hype of MK and I think on or off the ice, Sasha will do much better than MK.

 

[krenseby]

Re:

Yes, Cohen undoing herself when the title is practically in her grasp might have a lot to do with it. But face the facts: Kwan is more popular and is more well known (right now), so when she's around, her name trumps everyone else's. Not a slight to Cohen or any of the other skaters but that's just how it happens. Kwan has been around a lot longer, too and has the titles to back it up.

That's exactly my point. Even at those two times that Cohen beat Kwan at 04 and 05 Worlds, Kwan still got more media coverage. I also remember the Marshalls cheesefest where Kwan's technically weaker program beat Sasha's much stronger one! Now that's a case of favoritism if there ever was one! Cohen was always under Kwan's spotlight, even when Kwan was much weaker as a skaer!

 

[R.D.]

I can't count the number of competitions I saw Kwan's name and went "Oh geez, I know who's going to win."

I agree, but you have to admit you have to put most of it on the skater for not being able to beat Kwan. Those who did - Lipinski, Hughes, Butyrskaya, Slutskaya- they got their time :yes:

In that case, I'm not sure it's fair to say she "ruined" people's careers. It was just her time, that's all. It's up to the others to step it up if they wished to beat her. In fact, I think Kwan is responsible for giving most of these young skaters a role model to look up to and motivation to become even better. So she's probably done more good than harm to these skaters in the long run.

Now she's gone, so this discussion really is all moot. Let's look forward to the next generation of skating, shall we. :chorus:

 

[R.D.]

That's exactly my point. Even at those two times that Cohen beat Kwan at 04 and 05 Worlds, Kwan still got more media coverage. I also remember the Marshalls cheesefest where Kwan's technically weaker program beat Sasha's much stronger one! Now that's a case of favoritism if there ever was one! Cohen was always under Kwan's spotlight, even when Kwan was much weaker as a skaer!

But it was a PHONE-IN event. Of course Kwan is going to win ANY skating popularity contest (in the US that is) if you put her in! She could be the Zamboni driver and still win

Same with Cohen this year- other skaters did much harder routines but Cohen wowed a lot of people with that GBA program so people picked her. Did she deserve it? it's debatable but she likely wouldn't have won it if it was judged technically.

 

[krenseby]

Re:

But it was a PHONE-IN event. Of course Kwan is going to win ANY skating popularity contest (in the US that is) if you put her in! She could be the Zamboni driver and still win

Same with Cohen this year- other skaters did much harder routines but Cohen wowed a lot of people with that GBA program so people picked her. Did she deserve it? it's debatable but she likely wouldn't have won it if it was judged technically.

You merely prove my point. Skaters should not overshadow other capable skaters merely on celebrity.

When Cohen was doing a lot better than Kwan, she should have been in the spotlight and Kwan out of it.

Same for Meissner. If Meissner is doing better than Cohen she should get the attention. Incidentally ever since her Worlds win, Meissner has garnered more media attention than Cohen and rightly so!

I only wish that Sasha could have been more celebrated and accoladed than Michelle was, when she started beating Michelle. It's only fair.

 

[R.D.]

What about when Tara beat MK at the Olys 98? In Houston Tara got a lot of media attention but I'm not sure about elsewhere...I think MK still got the majority of the attention.

And Sarah who? She got her 15 min of fame and then disappeared under the radar. I tell you, it's Kwan's LONGEVITY that has a lot to do with it. You have to keep winning- AND stay in the spotlight to be well-known.

If Meissner is doing better than Cohen she should get the attention. Incidentally ever since her Worlds win, Meissner has garnered more media attention than Cohen and rightly so!

I'm not too sure about that. She was everywhere here in Baltimore- don't know about elsewhere- but Cohen continues to attend events here and there and that helps keep her name visible. However, Borat's rise to fame (and the fact that he has the same name as she does) may cloud that...people already confuse the two of them now. Maybe in competitive skating circles Meissner is more popular but Cohen's sure trying her best to not let that Olympic silver burn out. But she should know that even olympic GOLD medalists have had only fleeting fame after their win...so therefore any other medal would likely burn out even quicker.

I just would hope for Cohen's sake that she truly LOVES acting and isn't just using it as a vehicle to higher fame than skating.

 

[attyfan]

That's exactly my point. Even at those two times that Cohen beat Kwan at 04 and 05 Worlds, Kwan still got more media coverage. I also remember the Marshalls cheesefest where Kwan's technically weaker program beat Sasha's much stronger one! Now that's a case of favoritism if there ever was one! Cohen was always under Kwan's spotlight, even when Kwan was much weaker as a skaer!

Well, in '04, there was the streaker, so I wasn't surprised to see that MK got the coverage -- there was a Super Bowl where something unpredicted (a 5 second "wardrobe malfunction") got a lot more media attention than the game did. And my LA Times (which has very poor skating coverage, in general) paid the most attention to Irina's comeback than it did to the placements of the American ladies.

Seriously, though, the more "unexpected" an event is, the more media attention it will get, and MK's skates in '04 (the streaker) and '05 (off the podium for the first time in 9 years) were more unexpected than Sasha's silvers.

The Marshall's thing can't be called "unfair favoritism", IMO, since the call was to vote for "your favorite skater", not to vote for the best.

 

[Skate Sandee]

That's exactly my point. Even at those two times that Cohen beat Kwan at 04 and 05 Worlds, Kwan still got more media coverage.

Prove it. In every article about those Worlds, both skaters were mentioned and interviewed. Next you'll be telling us that Kwan paid for the streaker to come onto the ice in Dortmund just so she could steal the limelight of Sasha's silver medal and "ruin" Sasha's career.

What's ironic about your bizarre theory that Sasha has been overshadowed is that I can't think of another non-titled skater that has had more hype, more media attention, and more popularity than Sasha. You should be happy that she's managed to be in the spotlight so much given her less than golden results. It's a testament to her appeal and talent that her lack of titles has not diminished her spotlight in any way.

 

[Mathman]

Still, I think Krenseby raises an interesting point. IMHO one of the problems is that figure skating does not have a high enough profile on the U.S. sports scene to support enthusiastic news coverage of more than one star at a time.

Plus, the U.S. market is pretty parochial when it comes to international sports. Casual fans were caught up in the story of Michelle winning her seventh U.S. championship, then her eighth, then her ninth, and they did not care so much about who came in second or third or fourth at Worlds.

Here in the Detroit media market, in Michelle's heyday she used to get the lion's share of figure skating coverage. Now it has switched to skaters with local ties. Belbin and Agosto are probably the biggest local stars, and skaters like Alissa Czisny and even relative newcomers like Davis and White get some ink now and then.

 

[slutskayafan21]

That's exactly my point. Even at those two times that Cohen beat Kwan at 04 and 05 Worlds, Kwan still got more media coverage. I also remember the Marshalls cheesefest where Kwan's technically weaker program beat Sasha's much stronger one! Now that's a case of favoritism if there ever was one! Cohen was always under Kwan's spotlight, even when Kwan was much weaker as a skaer!

I think the thing is although Sasha did beat Kwan at 04 and 05 Worlds she did not actually WIN those events, she still was runner up continuing her long string of bridesmaid type finishes at major events. Both of those were after being 2nd to Kwan at Nationals as well. So while she did beat Kwan she still failed to win a major event, so that is probably why she did not get much attention for beating Kwan. If she had won 1 of those Worlds she probably would have stolen alot of attention from Kwan, but as it was it was just Sasha coming up short of winning at a major event again whether it be to Kwan at U.S Nationals, Arakawa at Worlds, Slutskaya at Worlds, same old same old. I am not saying that is my perspective on how it should be perceived but with the "win first" many Americans have it probably was how it was perceived. Sure she beat Kwan at those two Worlds but she was still was a constant bridesmaid at every important event, still not a major event winner ever really.

 

[R.D.]

right. I also think that has a lot to do with it. And she's still the bridesmaid

 

[Skate Sandee]

Hell, I've always had a feeling that many sports writers that cover figure skating have had a stock article on file with glowing superlatives about a Sasha win - all ready to go with a few minor tweaks. Just sitting on a hard drive in a file somewhere. Judges were itching to give her the wins and reporters were itching to write about her wins. She just fell short (no pun intended) when it always appeared that "this time" was going to be the one where she realized her potential.

There's no arguing that Michelle has garnered the lion's share of attention. But that's the way it is in any sport. Once an athlete crosses that invisible line to being regarded as the top in a particular sport for any length of time, it's normal to see that person a focus of the media. MK certainly earned it. If you want to grumble about the attention she gets, look at the media machine, not Kwan. If anything, MK is private to the point of being a hermit by comparison to many top athletes. No official website. No online journals to update her fans. Very little revealed in her interviews. No one can point to Kwan as feeding her own media machine. She seems to go out of her way to only do as much media is as necessary or requested in a competitive situation. Ironically, her silence or less-than-forthcoming answers only seem to drive the speculation. So whether she's out in front or not, media is going to focus attention on her. So "hate the game, not the player".

 

[R.D.]

But I think being private, like you pointed out, only fuels speculation. It may even make her more "discussed" since she never says anything. Kwan's the only skater I know that can generate multiple-page threads in less than a day (less than an hour on FSU).