Rachael Flatt tries to work out kinks

[skateflower]

I wasn't point at you or anyone in particular.

I'm just saying that it seems that she's received a lot of fire compared to other skaters, even when she's doing relatively well.

It's one thing to say that you don't like her skating. It's fine to say that she was slow and out of shape (that I can agree with). It's another to repeat it again and again. It's also another thing to attack her looks/weight/etc.

It's also wrong to say that she should give up because of a few bad competitions or a few low scores.

Mirai has consistently not lived up to her potential, but nobody is saying she should quit. Why should Rachael?

And also I'm bothered that people thing that things were handed to Rachael. They were not.

I don't think it's anybody's business to tell any skater to quit.
I don't think things were handed to Rachael per se. But I do question some of th secores she received at the previous U.S. nationals. Those goe and pcs were inflated much more relative to Ashley, Mirai, Zhang etc

 

[Mrs. P]

I don't think it's anybody's business to tell any skater to quit.
I don't think things were handed to Rachael per se. But I do question some of th secores she received at the previous U.S. nationals. Those goe and pcs were inflated much more relative to Ashley, Mirai, Zhang etc

From what 2011? Rachael scored one point better in PCS that Mirai in the LP and even less than that in the SP.
And as for GOE -- Rachel only scored 3 points in GOE total. That's hardly a gift.

Mirai lost silver (and a Worlds berth) by 6.12 points. The spin and the a fully-rotated lutz would have made up the difference. I like Mirai and think that there was a valid argument that she should have beat Rachael at Nationals in 2010. But the lifeless performance she gave at Nationals last year did not warrant super high PCS.

 

[Olympia]

And from my personal view I have never understood the vitriol some people have for Rachael. For her sake, I hope she doesn't read the message boards because they are are quite demoralizing. She has the right to compete. And she doesn't really have any control where she places other than what she brings to the ice.

Very well said.

While I worry about the near future of American ladies' skating, this particular lady has every right to continue to compete for a spot on the team. If everyone else implodes at Nationals (God forbid), it won't be her fault. And, as with all other matters of the future, we never know how things turn out. It's not for us to count anyone out.

 

[Mathman]

I doubt U.S. federation would do that though.

You're right, they won't. USFS will send the top two finishers at U.S. senior nationals.

It could be Mirai and Ashley. Both have given us something to be hopeful about in the fall season. But I will be rooting for Alissa . Rachael seems to be out of gas .

PS. Go Caroline Zhang!

 

[Spun Silver]

Re: vitriol directed at Rachael - I think Mirai is getting a very similar exasperated response this year. (Not from me, because to me the criticisms of Mirai are exaggerated and I'm still hopeful about the rest of her season.) But my point is, there is a very limited number of competition slots for all the talented skaters in the US. Perceived laziness, unfulfilled potential, and showing up to compete out of shape are going to generate a criticism based at least in part on a concern for all the other skaters who are missing out. It's not just Rachael.

Now about Rachael specifically - she was given certain gifts (body, talents, family, etc.). Fine! Now make the best of them! Learn how to conceal and compensate for those flaws! I feel like Rachael has been given a pass in some ways - by herself and quite a few others who haven't demanded the very best from her. That may seem very nice and broad-minded to some people, but IMO it prevented Rachael from becoming the best skater she could be. And now it's probably too late. It's too bad, because she has had flashes of ... well, I can't say greatness, but definitely more potential than she's realized. And there are a lot of other talented girls who might have made more of her opportunities.

The whole school thing doesn't interest me (to be blunt, LOL). All skaters have to deal with the challenges of getting educated and their future careers. It's not an excuse for skating badly.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Now about Rachael specifically - she was given certain gifts (body, talents, family, etc.). Fine! Now make the best of them! Learn how to conceal and compensate for those flaws! I feel like Rachael has been given a pass in some ways - by herself and quite a few others who haven't demanded the very best from her. That may seem very nice and broad-minded to some people, but IMO it prevented Rachael from becoming the best skater she could be. And now it's probably too late. It's too bad, because she has had flashes of ... well, I can't say greatness, but definitely more potential than she's realized. And there are a lot of other talented girls who might have made more of her opportunities.

I see it exactly opposite. To me, Rachel has overachieved, extracting every ounce of talent she has to accomplish what she has. She doesn't have a fit, toned dancer's body, so she never had the "look" of a skating star. Perhaps her coaching situation wasn't ideal, but what's a 16 year old to do about that? She isn't in a position as a teenager to move her family across the country to find a different coach. Whereas other skaters have underachieved with their gifts, I feel like Rachel overachieved with her limitations.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

You say all the U.S current crop can be on the podium or out of the top 10. That never applied to Flatt however, especialy not last year (heaven forbid now). Everyone knows there isnt a flying fig of a chance of her ever ending on the podium no matter how well she skates and how many other mistakes are made, but she is no longer a consistent, solid, or strong enough skater to count on for top 10 either.

You are talking about a skater (Flatt last year) coming off a season where she was top 10 in the Wolds and Olympics, and last year medaled in both her GP events. So, as of Nationals last year, Flatt was a competitive skater. We know what happened afterwards but at that point last year, Flatt had a silver at Nationals and her 2 GP events, and Mirai had a bronze at Nationals and a silver and 4th place finish at her GP events. Their is no fair way to deny Rachel a Worlds berth in that situation other than for personal taste reasons.

Sure she isn't so great now, but Rachel's skating now is a far cry from where she was at Nationals last year.

 

[Spun Silver]

She doesn't have a fit, toned dancer's body, so she never had the "look" of a skating star.

Do you think people are born with fit, toned bodies?

 

[pangtongfan]

You are talking about a skater (Flatt last year) coming off a season where she was top 10 in the Wolds and Olympics, and last year medaled in both her GP events. So, as of Nationals last year, Flatt was a competitive skater. We know what happened afterwards but at that point last year, Flatt had a silver at Nationals and her 2 GP events, and Mirai had a bronze at Nationals and a silver and 4th place finish at her GP events. Their is no fair way to deny Rachel a Worlds berth in that situation other than for personal taste reasons.

Sure she isn't so great now, but Rachel's skating now is a far cry from where she was at Nationals last year.

Yes Flatt this time last year was much stronger than she is this year. However she wasnt that strong. Her peak was clearly 2009-2010. Mirai had already passed her in ability and far passed her in potential. Flatt finished 3 spots below Mirai at the 2010 Olympics even with the performances of her life, 2 spots below Mirai at the 2010 Worlds despite Mirai's LP meltdown, and had finished a distant last of 6 women at the GP final which she made due to the luck of easier assignments. She was absolutely no threat to medal as her high end potential result (which is how you referred to the current crop of top U.S women, which may be true of some but certainly not of Flatt, even last year), and she was no longer a safer bet for a top 10 result than the others considering she was no longer more consistent than the other U.S ladies (actually less likely to make top 10 considering when she makes mistakes, which by 2011 she was already frequently making, she has nothing else to hold her up really, unlike a Czisny or Nagasu).

Anyway I am tired of talking about this. Flatt has no chance of making the World team this year though, zippo, nada, nyet. And for the state of U.S women moving forward it is a good thing that is the case.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Do you think people are born with fit, toned bodies?

Really? I said people are born with fit bodies? There is only so much you can do to look like Yuna or Sasha. It is simply not possible for everyone to do so and remain healthy and strong enough to do triple jumps. Maybe you think otherwise.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Flatt has no chance of making the World team this year though, zippo, nada, nyet. And for the state of U.S women moving forward it is a good thing that is the case.

You guys don't feel bad saying this about someone who all she does is go out there and give it her best?

 

[Spun Silver]

Of course Rachael has the ability to tone her body and discipline her food intake. There are these magical buildings called gyms, with weights in them. It's actually very condescending to think she can't do something that every other elite athlete does... and an awful lot of ordinary folk.

 

[pangtongfan]

You guys don't feel bad saying this about someone who all she does is go out there and give it her best?

No. It is time for the U.S women to stop their backpedalling and try and move forward again, and continuing to invest in the plunging Flatt stock, and hold back any of the fine U.S lady skaters right now just to keep sending Flatt to any major events is a huge step backwards for the U.S. Anyway Flatt doesnt "give it her all" anymore. She looks bored as heck to be out there and almost still doing it as a chore when she really wants to be back at school. The judges in Russia did the right thing by pushing her closer to retirement and being a full time student, and the judges at U.S Nationals will hopefully finish the trick. It will be for Flatt's best as well.

 

[Mrs. P]

No. It is time for the U.S women to stop their backpedalling and try and move forward again, and continuing to invest in the plunging Flatt stock, and hold back any of the fine U.S lady skaters right now just to keep sending Flatt to any major events is a huge step backwards for the U.S. Anyway Flatt doesnt "give it her all" anymore. She looks bored as heck to be out there and almost still doing it as a chore when she really wants to be back at school. The judges in Russia did the right thing by pushing her closer to retirement and being a full time student, and the judges at U.S Nationals will hopefully finish the trick. It will be for Flatt's best as well.

How is Rachael bored as heck? I see a skater who is struggling. I think Rachael is giving as much as she's able given the challenges she's facing right now-- new coaches, new environment, new schedule.

And the only people who are holding back Mirai and Ashley is well... Mirai and Ashley. The U.S. judges can't give marks for things they don't on the ice or ignore mistakes they make on it either.

That said, I'm not looking for anyone to mess up. I hope all the women bring their A game this year. But while Rachael isn't looking too great right now, if she manages to bring it at Nationals and the others do not, then I don't think the federation has any leg to stand on as far as breaking the top 2 rule. The only person who I think warrants breaking the rule is Alissa. She has placed top 5 at worlds, won a GP and medaled at the other. For all the chatter about scores, Alissa is the only one of the U.S. ladies to break 120 internationally this year.

In general, I like taking a wait-and-see attitude.

 

[chuckm]

Of course Rachael has the ability to tone her body and discipline her food intake. There are these magical buildings called gyms, with weights in them. It's actually very condescending to think she can't do something that every other elite athlete does... and an awful lot of ordinary folk.

Not so easy to do when you have to attend classes every day then drive for more than an hour to the rink for your practice sessions, then another hour in the car back to the dorms to study and do assignments.

I'm sure Rachael used to exercise daily along with her skating, but her schedule may not allow for it now. It's no wonder she's out of shape. I guess from your point of view she should forgo eating and sleeping entirely and just study, exercise and skate. :sheesh:

From what I have read, Rachael is planning on a less packed academic schedule for the next quarter which should give her more time to skate and exercise.

 

[FlattFan]

Of course Rachael has the ability to tone her body and discipline her food intake. There are these magical buildings called gyms, with weights in them. It's actually very condescending to think she can't do something that every other elite athlete does... and an awful lot of ordinary folk.

What an ignorant statement!
Do you think all elite athletes have tone body?

 

[Spun Silver]

Well, now that you mention it, as I was getting ready for bed last night the images of CC Sabathia, David Wells, and Big Papi came to mind, LOL. But most others? Yup, they're mostly pretty darned toned. http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=12qt4if1e&sigi=129qd0jgl&.crumb=oLFB18kFJZ/

 

[chuckm]

Well, now that you mention it, as I was getting ready for bed last night the images of CC Sabathia, David Wells, and Big Papi came to mind, LOL. But most others? Yup, they're mostly pretty darned toned. http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=12qt4if1e&sigi=129qd0jgl&.crumb=oLFB18kFJZ/

Those are all PROFESSIONAL athletes who are paid megabucks to do what they do and they spend the major part of their time in rigorous activity. Of course they are toned and in shape.

That just isn't a fair comparison.

BTW, Mirai Nagasu isn't in the best shape either, and she isn't going to college. But like Rachael, she is forced to sit in a car for hours every day traveling to and from Lake Arrowhead.

 

[Spun Silver]

Fine, compare Rachael to other skaters!

ETA: No, let's not. My point is made. JMO and feel free to disagree.

 

[ghislaine]

? I don't understand this whole argument. Rachael is very, very fit and it is silly to suggest otherwise. If you look at her in the kiss and cry she is rarely out of breath for more than a few moments. She is just not willowy like other lady skaters. And she lost quite a bit of weight between Skate Canada and the Rostelecom Cup. Mirai said last year that she was not back in her usual fighting shape til Four Continents because she had a foot injury in the summer. I believe Rachael was off the ice for quite a bit longer because of her leg injury. I will not be too worried for her this year even if she does not medal at nationals because this is a year of adjustment and she did not have a lot of time to train during the summer. I think next year she will be back to form. Maybe even better and faster because she has an ice dancer as a coach now.