Rachael Flatt tries to work out kinks | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Rachael Flatt tries to work out kinks

I think Orser in his prime could have done comedic routines quite well, whereas Brian does not have the fluidity or siliness it seems to do a really quirky routine. Anyone know of any comedic skates done well by Orser? They were both of the stand up prince era with the masculine military type presentations. I think of Brian in Alaska and a clown routine would be almost a travesty to the sheer beauty of his style. I'd hate to see Wylie do a cornball routine, either. Petrenko as a pro could do pretty much anything, along with Galindo. I never got sick of his YMCA. He could get away with the silly, offbeat routines. I wonder if you have a video of Philippe doing John Travolta. That was kinda cute.

While I love Scott's hambone routines, i can honestly say I hated Kurt Browning's clown routines. He was the best skater in his prime, and I thought a guy who could create and skate Nyah was just too good for the clown stuff. I think Kurt at one point so emulated Scott and his popularity, he copied him, to his detriment.

I think he's still the best professional male skater around, given his age. Only Stephane is still putting out great routines, though I am limited to Tv and youtube, so I don't know who still is good in Europe. I am so glad Kurt and Boitano still skate as their skills and standards are still up there. I wonder if we will see Dai or Patrick stick around to give these great professional routines. Sadly, the venues are not around for us in the US anymore.:cry:
 
skateluvr said:
While I love Scott's hambone routines, i can honestly say I hated Kurt Browning's clown routines. He was the best skater in his prime, and I thought a guy who could create and skate Nyah was just too good for the clown stuff. I think Kurt at one point so emulated Scott and his popularity, he copied him, to his detriment.
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I think you need to rewatch Kurt's professional career. Even Raggy - the clown routine he skated way too long - is a brilliant piece choreographically. It's perfectly timed to the music. And it was originally made for the Stars On Ice theme of clowns. He used it for two seasons because he only skated in SOI that year in Canada, and Besic and Company thought he needed to bring it to the US (fans thought so, too).

Most of Kurt's programs are tongue in cheek sexy (due to his being one of Canada's sexiest men alive for several years) or just brilliantly lyrical. As his knees have given him problems and he's been home more his programs have become more of a schtick routine, but for the most part he didn't clown around - mainly because Scott and he toured together and that'd be overkill for SOI... most of his "comedic" routines in SOI were for a specific purpose within in the show.
 
Brian Boitano was fun, in a quirky way, skating to "What Would Brian Boitano Do" and also his number to "Wild Elephants".

However, it took some aging for him to reach that point:


I can't find his WWBBD routine on youtube.
 
Mathman said:
^ Wild Elephants proved once and for all that Brian has no funk. ;)
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exactly... he had other "fun" programs that didn't work out... though I did like him wearing a recreation of Scott Hamilton's chicken costume... but the only thing funny about that skate was a six foot chicken suit. (that doesn't mean I didn't like Wild Elephants... but oh my word I'm laughing for all the wrong reasons).

I liked Kurt's improv to WWBBD more. See: http://youtu.be/-EjGQzz44FU (but, you're right, I am biased)
 
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Agreed, Tonichelle!

I was less enamored of Kurt's clown program than of other routines, but really, I'd watch him skate anything. Someone once said that the screen was probably invented just so Fred Astaire could cavort around on it, and sometimes it seems as if the ice was invented for Kurt in the same way. Even at his current age, he's more heartstoppingly interesting to watch than half the current stars.

Urmanov...whenever I think of him, I think of my late friend who once said that he dressed like Romeo. Meaning the Shakespearean character, not the rap star...Elizabethan gaudy finery. I gather that's more to Russian tastes than American, so it may just be a shortcoming on my part that I don't "get" the effect of his attire. I felt a bit bad for Urmanov, because his OGM didn't give him the kind of adulation it should have. Part of it might have been North American disappointment that Kurt wasn't able to win, or the opinion that Elvis should have been marked higher. The few public glimpses of his personality that I got, he seemed like a nice, modest guy. His English is fluent enough that I feel I get a good look at what he's like, and he seems very appealing. Anyone know what he's up to these days?
 
Coaching in Russia.

According to his wiki:

Urmanov is currently a skating coach and an International Skating Union technical specialist. He formerly coached Sergei Voronov and Nodari Maisuradze. His current students include Polina Agafonova, Gordei Gorshkov and Zhan Bush. He is based in Saint Petersburg, Russia but sometimes holds summer camps or clinics in other locations such as Luleå, Sweden and Paris, France.[3]
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Thanks, Doris! I'm glad to know that Urmanov has remained in skating and that he's so productive. When I went back and reviewed his skates from the 1994 Olympics (after all the emotional stuff died down in my mind and I could view things more objectively), I was impressed with his skating and felt that he was a competitor worth admiring. Alas, his career ended rather early with injuries, but he had great jumps and lovely positions (though as tall and fine-looking as he is, he could have skated much more effectively in just a black turtleneck and slacks, rather than getups like that swan costume he wore for one program....), and he was a fine exemplar of Russian men's skating.


Looking back several posts...I got a giggle out of the comment that Boitano has no funk. He surely doesn't, and living in California hasn't given him any, either. He does beautiful "majestic" stuff and great lyrical or romantic programs, but the other side of skating simply isn't in his arsenal! I agree that Orser has more possibility that way. He's much quicker on the ice and can call up a quirky expression that suits a humorous approach. Even Wylie has possibilities in that direction. Am I dreaming, or didn't he skate in an old Disney special as Bert, the Match Man from the Mary Poppins movie? That's the old Dick Van Dyke role, and as I recall, Wylie did it great justice. Remember that besides great extensions and positions, he has splendid, quick footwork, and he's capable of portraying character. He's one of the best "narrative" skaters around. This is a skill that would let him do a wide variety of moods. I remember that one of his last televised skating programs was a wonderful Lar Lubovich-choreographed program to, of all things, a Jim Morrison/Doors song, and he nailed it. I think he just tended to prefer the intense, heartfelt programs like "Apollo 13," "JFK," and the splendid "Henry V," but he had a lot more in him. Still one of my favorite skaters ever, and probably my favorite American male skater. (The others on my forever list include Browning, Curry, Robin Cousins, Yagudin, Lambiel, and Takahashi.)
 
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Am I dreaming, or didn't he skate in an old Disney special as Bert, the Match Man from the Mary Poppins movie? That's the old Dick Van Dyke role, and as I recall, Wylie did it great justice.
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He did play Bert the Chimney Sweep in "Disney's Greatest Hits on Ice" and while the program was good (for that show with lots of cheesey choreography) it wasn't very Dick Van Dyke.

Orser and Wylie were very good at playing nerds, as well as the boy next door. Again tongue in cheek towards their personality. Think Richie Cunningham to Kurt's Fonzie I suppose. (I really had no chance growing up lol... I got saddled with my dad's favorite shows). Brian did play Scott's clown part in CSOI and did BETTER than Scott, and in Scott's return special he skated Cuban Pete and did very well - but he doesn't have that quick sense of humor than Scott or Kurt shows when something goes wrong, etc. In that way, though he's better than Boitano, because he can at least follow the script and not make me feel bad for him...

Boitano just doesn't seem to have it. If you've ever watched his cooking show (What Would Brian Boitano Make) he tries SO very hard but you can TELL he's trying too hard to be funny/quirky/sexy/whatever... and he cannot do the street speak thing, and yet he does it in almost every episode... I swear it's a Central/Northern California thing... my cousins are obsessed with trying to "sound ghetto" and they are as opposite of that as they can be! So annoying. :rolleye:
 
pangtongfan said:
Rachel isnt injured now and she is barely coming top 10 in her grand prix events, let alone Worlds. I cant speak for everyone but I never expected her to come top 10 at Worlds last year before it began, and I had no idea she was injured until during/after the event. Anyway top 10 would not be enough to retain 3 spots which was the 2nd U.S skaters job, top 8 would have been needed.

You say all the U.S current crop can be on the podium or out of the top 10. That never applied to Flatt however, especialy not last year (heaven forbid now). Everyone knows there isnt a flying fig of a chance of her ever ending on the podium no matter how well she skates and how many other mistakes are made, but she is no longer a consistent, solid, or strong enough skater to count on for top 10 either.

The U.S has their method and as we saw last year it didnt work well for them as they were unable to gain 3 spots in either womens or mens with the suspect teams they sent.
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Has Flatt commented on her recovery this season following the fractured tibia? I am wondering, from the jump content in her programs, that perhaps the leg is not as strong as it once was. Not that she is "injured" but perhaps there are technique issues that have changed due to the fracture in the right leg? Those sorts of things...changes in technique, take time...time to adjust to a new technique, as well as time to mentally trust your technique to do the jump over and over again. I suspect some of that occurred with Nagasu as well following her foot injury the summer before (though Mirai has struggled for sometime with the mental side of the game). Flatt was quoted in some article that she was off the ice for two months to recover and I would I suspect it was probably at least another month or so before she was jumping again....so that would have made it probably 3 months without jumping...from the end of April to early August before she started training again. And, she had to relocate, and now as she stated in the newest ESPN-W article, they are trying to tweak her training day to decrease the amount of time on the road. So, at least the kid is honest...she understands she has work to do.
 
Nigel said:
Has Flatt commented on her recovery this season following the fractured tibia? I am wondering, from the jump content in her programs, that perhaps the leg is not as strong as it once was. Not that she is "injured" but perhaps there are technique issues that have changed due to the fracture in the right leg? Those sorts of things...changes in technique, take time...time to adjust to a new technique, as well as time to mentally trust your technique to do the jump over and over again. I suspect some of that occurred with Nagasu as well following her foot injury the summer before (though Mirai has struggled for sometime with the mental side of the game). Flatt was quoted in some article that she was off the ice for two months to recover and I would I suspect it was probably at least another month or so before she was jumping again....so that would have made it probably 3 months without jumping...from the end of April to early August before she started training again. And, she had to relocate, and now as she stated in the newest ESPN-W article, they are trying to tweak her training day to decrease the amount of time on the road. So, at least the kid is honest...she understands she has work to do.
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That makes perfect sense, and is likely why she attempted limited pick jumps in her GP programs. She probably would have avoided training pick jumps after returning to the ice, since they would cause pain and hinder her recovery. This season may be a recovery / reorientation period for Rachael; finishing top 5 at Nationals might be a reasonable goal for her.
 
Nigel said:
Has Flatt commented on her recovery this season following the fractured tibia? I am wondering, from the jump content in her programs, that perhaps the leg is not as strong as it once was. Not that she is "injured" but perhaps there are technique issues that have changed due to the fracture in the right leg? Those sorts of things...changes in technique, take time...time to adjust to a new technique, as well as time to mentally trust your technique to do the jump over and over again. I suspect some of that occurred with Nagasu as well following her foot injury the summer before (though Mirai has struggled for sometime with the mental side of the game). Flatt was quoted in some article that she was off the ice for two months to recover and I would I suspect it was probably at least another month or so before she was jumping again....so that would have made it probably 3 months without jumping...from the end of April to early August before she started training again. And, she had to relocate, and now as she stated in the newest ESPN-W article, they are trying to tweak her training day to decrease the amount of time on the road. So, at least the kid is honest...she understands she has work to do.
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I did not realize it was a tibia fracture. I fractured mine in a night fall that made me think my knee cap was broken. I have even more respect for Rachael. I am one who feels her best is behind her, but she is determined to get in shape. She really loves the sport and has been an exemplary US Champion. Lucky brilliant girl has options. Sometimes I feel the fact that she will not be a lifer goes against her scores with the intl judges. Scott/Sandra said RF should have placed fifth at Vancouver, right after Mirai.

I admit I feel the critiques are too harsh against her and it shows how we judge body shape severely in this sport. I wonder if Canadians are really down on Cynthia because she looks nothing like tiny, pretty Joannie. I never saw Cynthia in her best days, nor have I you tubed her as I am not interested in her at all. I still can't believe Canada has her and Amelie as their best skaters.

Joannie should come back and make a run toward Sochi. As well as she skated in 2010, I'd loved to have seen her perform under different circumstances.

Any up and comer in Canada? Does Canada have a junior skater in the wings like Gracie Gold for Sochi? i sure hope so.
 
skateluvr said:
I admit I feel the critiques are too harsh against her and it shows how we judge body shape severely in this sport. I wonder if Canadians are really down on Cynthia because she looks nothing like tiny, pretty Joannie. I never saw Cynthia in her best days, nor have I you tubed her as I am not interested in her at all. I still can't believe Canada has her and Amelie as their best skaters.
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I can't really speak for anyone else, but it's been so frustrating watching Cynthia not live up to her potential. Early on I thought she had more potential than Joannie. When she came back after her injuries and growth spurt there was hope, but she just can't seem to stay on her feet. And that's even more frustrating now that she's our top lady. Personally, I can't always tell how big/small a skater is on TV. I like Cynthia's style a lot.

This is just back to the usual for Canadian ladies. Remember Jennifer Robinson? But that's getting off topic ... I always kind of liked Rachael Flatt, sorry to see her struggle so much.
 
skateluvr said:
I admit I feel the critiques are too harsh against her and it shows how we judge body shape severely in this sport. I wonder if Canadians are really down on Cynthia because she looks nothing like tiny, pretty Joannie. I never saw Cynthia in her best days, nor have I you tubed her as I am not interested in her at all. I still can't believe Canada has her and Amelie as their best skaters.

Joannie should come back and make a run toward Sochi. As well as she skated in 2010, I'd loved to have seen her perform under different circumstances.

Any up and comer in Canada? Does Canada have a junior skater in the wings like Gracie Gold for Sochi? i sure hope so.
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Personally, I wouldn't care less what our skaters look like if they could land their darn triples. But over a certain height or weight, that does become more difficult. Cynthia was more consistent with her jumps when she was shorter. (I also wouldn't call Joannie "tiny"...she's petite, but fit and strong. Not a waif. )

I miss Joannie...unfortunately things aren't looking bright without her. We don't have many women who can land the more difficult triples consistently. According to reports, it isn't looking very good at the junior level either. :disapp:
 
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