Random Figure Skating Questions | Page 111 | Golden Skate

Random Figure Skating Questions

Does anyone know what came of Polina Korobeynikova? Is she still skating or involved in skating in any capacity? Is she retired? She did participate last year in the Russian Nationals but placed VERY low. Does anyone know if she is hoping to go to nationals again this year?

How about Simon Shnapir? Anyone know what he's up to?
 
So, given these age ranges, I was wondering:

Is it possible to skip levels?

Yes.

Keep in mind first that these age limits and the definitions of the novice levels apply to international competitions only.

National federations may adopt them for domestic competitions exactly as the ISU has defined them, or they may have different rules, and different names for the middle levels, within their own competitions.

The actual skating rules for novice competition may differ between countries as well. For example, last I knew the US and Canadian novice short program requirements were somewhat different from the ISU advanced novice requirements and also somewhat different from each other -- which gets a bit tricky when skaters cross the border to compete at club competitions.

And it's mostly skaters from small federations in Europe who compete internationally at novice level. Because there are a lot of different countries in Europe within relatively easy travel distance of each other, and many with small skating communities with only enough skaters to hold small competitions, if any, at each level, international competitions in Europe can serve a similar function that club competitions serve in Canada and the US. The ISU novice rules, designed to standardized rules for these lesser internationals and also to offer guidance to new federations looking to organize their domestic competition structure, are relatively new. More established federations in the 20th century had already developed their own rules for levels below junior. And those (such as the US and Canada) where the needs for domestic novice competition were different than the needs of smaller European federations chose not to change their domestic rules to match the ISU recommendations.

Also, skaters often compete at a different level domestically than they do internationally.

Most novices, even the promising ones, in the US, for example, never get an opportunity to compete internationally. When the US does send to novice international competitions, it's often skaters who distinguished themselves at US Nationals at the junior level but are too young for junior international competition.

I'm most familiar with the US system. There the competitive levels are Senior, Junior, Novice, Intermediate, Juvenile (and below that Prejuvenile, Preliminary, Prepreliminary, and No-Test). Of those, only Juvenile and Intermediate have age limits for domestic competitions. It's test level, not age, that determines what level you're allowed to compete within the US. You could have a senior who is 10 or a novice who is 34. Of course, they wouldn't be allowed to compete internationally at those levels, assuming they were good enough to be considered for international assignments.

For example, in 2013 Vincent Zhou won the US junior championship, but because he was only 12 at the time (and would not be 13 in time for the 2013-14 JGP season), he was sent to the Gardena Spring Trophy at the Advanced Novice level (which he won).

The US has often also sent skaters who competed at the senior level domestically to JGP, Junior Worlds, or other junior international competitions, either because they were too young for senior internationals or because the senior assignments were going to other skaters who were either older and/or higher ranked.

Competing at different levels in the same year, one domestically and one internationally, is a bit of a disadvantage because the skaters need two versions of their programs. But if it's a choice between that or not competing internationally at all, most are willing to adapt the programs.

And, if it is possible to skip levels, can you think of anybody famous that has done it?

I don't know offhand of someone who competed novice internationally one year and then senior internationally the next year without ever competing as a junior, although it's likely some exist.

As for skaters skipping levels domestically, one who comes to mind is Deanna Stellato, who won the US novice title in 1999 and then tested up to compete senior at 2000 Nationals. But internationally she competed junior that year (winning the JGP Final and taking silver at Jr. Worlds), so she didn't skip levels internationally.

Another from the same era was Nicole Watt of Canada. I understand that in the 1999 season she was competing at the Pre-Novice level (equivalent to Intermediate in the US and I guess to the Novice A/B international levels). Then, because she had started landing triples and because she expected that her skating career would be cut short by her juvenile arthritis, she moved up to Senior level for the 2000 season within Canada -- and ended up qualifying for Canadian Nationals and placing 4th. But her first international competitions were at Junior level.

So we can say that Stellato skipped Junior level within the US, and Watt skipped Novice and Junior levels within Canada. But neither of them skipped any levels internationally -- they started their international careers as juniors and then competed as seniors, and ended their careers not long after for health reasons.
 
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I am not sure Evan really seriously would come back. First there is age. SEcond there is pride - he is an Olympic champion and not a convincing one. He is a nice person but was there at the right time. Competing against an aging, injured Plushenko and Chan not ready and comebacks too late from Lambiel as well as Japanese men just not at their prime - the time was lucky for him. But now there are so many complete skaters who arguably or inarguably have more personality and artistic flair and quads he really would have to up the ante. Besides it sounds like he is milking his OGM in a good way. He was doing some kind of market or commodities work and now this design stuff and really he does not have the education or training - the doors opened up because of OGM so he is doing just fine. Add to that fewer pro competitions and interest in shows plus he is a male and women tend to be more in demand he is playing it the smart. I will not speculate on his relationships. I have seen him out and about with guys, girls - all could be friends or whatever; I just hope he is happy and enjoying OGM.
 
Yes.

Keep in mind first that these age limits and the definitions of the novice levels apply to international competitions only.

National federations may adopt them for domestic competitions exactly as the ISU has defined them, or they may have different rules, and different names for the middle levels, within their own competitions.

The actual skating rules for novice competition may differ between countries as well. For example, last I knew the US and Canadian novice short program requirements were somewhat different from the ISU advanced novice requirements and also somewhat different from each other -- which gets a bit tricky when skaters cross the border to compete at club competitions.

And it's mostly skaters from small federations in Europe who compete internationally at novice level. Because there are a lot of different countries in Europe within relatively easy travel distance of each other, and many with small skating communities with only enough skaters to hold small competitions, if any, at each level, international competitions in Europe can serve a similar function that club competitions serve in Canada and the US. The ISU novice rules, designed to standardized rules for these lesser internationals and also to offer guidance to new federations looking to organize their domestic competition structure, are relatively new. More established federations in the 20th century had already developed their own rules for levels below junior. And those (such as the US and Canada) where the needs for domestic novice competition were different than the needs of smaller European federations chose not to change their domestic rules to match the ISU recommendations.

Also, skaters often compete at a different level domestically than they do internationally.

Most novices, even the promising ones, in the US, for example, never get an opportunity to compete internationally. When the US does send to novice international competitions, it's often skaters who distinguished themselves at US Nationals at the junior level but are too young for junior international competition.

I'm most familiar with the US system. There the competitive levels are Senior, Junior, Novice, Intermediate, Juvenile (and below that Prejuvenile, Preliminary, Prepreliminary, and No-Test). Of those, only Juvenile and Intermediate have age limits for domestic competitions. It's test level, not age, that determines what level you're allowed to compete within the US. You could have a senior who is 10 or a novice who is 34. Of course, they wouldn't be allowed to compete internationally at those levels, assuming they were good enough to be considered for international assignments.

For example, in 2013 Vincent Zhou won the US junior championship, but because he was only 12 at the time (and would not be 13 in time for the 2013-14 JGP season), he was sent to the Gardena Spring Trophy at the Advanced Novice level (which he won).

The US has often also sent skaters who competed at the senior level domestically to JGP, Junior Worlds, or other junior international competitions, either because they were too young for senior internationals or because the senior assignments were going to other skaters who were either older and/or higher ranked.

Competing at different levels in the same year, one domestically and one internationally, is a bit of a disadvantage because the skaters need two versions of their programs. But if it's a choice between that or not competing internationally at all, most are willing to adapt the programs.



I don't know offhand of someone who competed novice internationally one year and then senior internationally the next year without ever competing as a junior, although it's likely some exist.

As for skaters skipping levels domestically, one who comes to mind is Deanna Stellato, who won the US novice title in 1999 and then tested up to compete senior at 2000 Nationals. But internationally she competed junior that year (winning the JGP Final and taking silver at Jr. Worlds), so she didn't skip levels internationally.

Another from the same era was Nicole Watt of Canada. I understand that in the 1999 season she was competing at the Pre-Novice level (equivalent to Intermediate in the US and I guess to the Novice A/B international levels). Then, because she had started landing triples and because she expected that her skating career would be cut short by her juvenile arthritis, she moved up to Senior level for the 2000 season within Canada -- and ended up qualifying for Canadian Nationals and placing 4th. But her first international competitions were at Junior level.

So we can say that Stellato skipped Junior level within the US, and Watt skipped Novice and Junior levels within Canada. But neither of them skipped any levels internationally -- they started their international careers as juniors and then competed as seniors, and ended their careers not long after for health reasons.

Thank you so, so much for your comprehensive reply, gkelly. :bow:

Apologies for not thanking you sooner. I decided to wait until after today's competitions were over before I read your answer, so that I could properly digest it. And I am so glad I did. It was fascinating to read! :agree:

I was very surprised that different federations are still using different rules. I thought everything would have been standardised with the ISU rules by now.

Yeah, having different rules would make it very complicated for skaters that have to cross borders just so that they can compete regularly. Hence, why I thought that the rules would be standardised by now.

I'll be honest with you, it is only since I started doing the detailed Fan Fests over the summer that I started to get a bit of an idea of the Novice levels. But, it was only when I read that document Golden linked to that I got a real understanding.

But, for any levels lower than that, I haven't a clue!

For a start, I think they are badly named. For example, you would think that "Intermediate" would come between "Junior" and "Senior". But it is actually below the Novice levels.

Reading through your list of the names of the levels used in America, they are actually quite sensible names (although, "Prepreliminary" is a very funny word!) Over here in Europe, we have "Chicks" and "Cubs". Like, how do these names relate to anything?! When I see the word "Chicks", I automatically think girls. And when I see word "Cubs", I automatically think boys. But, both these names are used for levels for both girls and boys. So, I'm lost. :confused:

Again, it was only when I started doing those detailed Fan Fests that I came across skaters competing in different levels internationally than they do domestically. But, I never understood the reasoning behind this.

Well, I suppose you could say that something similar happens in Russia, where we regularly see the Junior skaters competing in both Junior and Senior Nationals. But that is a different situation.

And funny you should bring up the complication of having to have 2 versions of your programmes if you are competing at 2 different levels in the same season. Because that is what I keep thinking about when I see these Russian Juniors competing in Senior Nationals. It must be very confusing trying to remember what to do and what not to do, especially if it is using the same music.

Aha! The American system being based on tests rather than age explains a lot. I can't remember who it was (I think it was actually somebody well known! :slink: ), but a couple of years ago I came across a guy in his 30's who was competing both as a singles skater and as part of a partnership, and he was competing at different levels in each (I think it was Senior in one, and Novice in the other. But which category was at each level, I can't remember!)


Finally, the 2 stories you used as examples at the end were very interesting, and were VERY effective at demonstrating pretty much everything you brought up earlier in the discussion!

I really enjoyed both the videos you linked to. Both girls were so impressive! If I had to pick a favourite, though, I think I would pick Watt. I just got more of a feeling for her programme than I did for Stellato's. Although, that may be because the Canadian commentators were talking a lot less than their American counterparts, and so you got to hear more of the music...

Such a shame they both ended up retiring through injuries so soon into their international careers. Because they were both clearly great talents.

So, as well as for your very informative answer to my question, thank you so much for bringing these 2 girls to my attention, gkelly! :bow:

CaroLiza_fan
 
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This year:

Serafima Sakhanovich's FS - "Dmitri Shostakovich's Seventh Symphony, which sent me a coach and, on reflection, we decided to do it under the program. Now it consists of three parts. The first and final - to the music of Shostakovich, the second part - Mozart's Requiem
 
Mostly we get the following from Shostakovich, rather than his symphonies

His ballet, The Bolt (Brian Orser and others)

The Waltzes from Jazz Suites (Domnina & Shabalin and others)

The Gadfly Suite (Yuri Nakano and others)

The Lady and the Hooligan (Mukhortova & Trankov and many many others) ballet suite
 
But I don't think anyone has ever skated to the second movement of Kalinnikov's first symphony. :cry:

Or any of the Hummel piano concertos?
 
Putting the "stupid" in "Stupid Questions Thread": what is a waxel?

:hopelessness: I really should know that by now...
 
Putting the "stupid" in "Stupid Questions Thread": what is a waxel?

:hopelessness: I really should know that by now...

Basically, it's a combination of "waltz jump" and "axel." Basically it occurs when you completely miss the axel jump, i.e. not even a single axel. It looks like a waltz jump, so hence, waxel.
 
Basically, it's a combination of "waltz jump" and "axel." Basically it occurs when you completely miss the axel jump, i.e. not even a single axel. It looks like a waltz jump, so hence, waxel.

That makes so much sense...

:laugh2: I thought it just meant "wonky axel" or something, lol.
 
^ Whilw trying to look this up I found out that there was an eighteenth century Russian explorer named Sven Waxel who was one of the first Europeans to reach the Aleutian Islands that are now part of Alaska. He was second in command under Vitus Bering, after whom the Bering Straights separating Russia from North America, are named. Lieutenant Waxel took over when Bering fell ill to scurvy. :)
 
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Hm, I might be wrong!

per wikipedia (FWIW)

It is common for skaters to skid the forward take off edge, especially on double and triple Axels, rather than vaulting directly off a clean edge. The skid helps the blade grip the ice on the take off, and is considered an acceptable technique as long as the skid does not make the skater pre-rotate the jump or take off the back of the blade. When the skater makes a mistake in the timing of the jump so that the blade slips off the edge instead of gripping the ice, the result is called a "waxel," often resulting in a fall.
 
I was looking at the Worlds IJS scores in 2005 and 2006 when they still had an initial, qualifying round that counted towards their total. (Which I looked into in the first place because I remembered reading Yuna Kim was the first woman to break 200 points, but noticed that several competitors in 2005–2006 broke the 200-mark because of the additional points from the qualifying round). What did the skaters do for this qualifying round? Did they go through one or both of their programmes, and if so, how come the score is much lower than what they got for the SP in the main part of the competition?
 
And it was factored so that, IIRC, it was worth 25% of what the same score would have been worth in the final round.

I may have the percentage wrong, but the principle is correct.
 
Finally got around to watching the Free Dance from the Cup of Austria, and when Darya Popova came on, it reminded me that I wanted to ask something.

During the Short Dance, Layback11 asked if Darya was related to Natalia Popova, to which I posted the following reply:

I doubt it. Natalia is from Crimea, whereas Darya is from the far north-east of the Ukraine, near the Russian border.

And, as a side note, recently retired French Pairs skater Daria (transliterated with an "i") is from Moscow, while Russian Junior Ice Dancer Bettina (who we saw at the Riga Cup) is from Vladivostok.

From what I've picked up, "Popov" (and the female version, "Popova") is a very common surname across Eastern Europe. Like, I know Czechs with the same surname.

CaroLiza_fan

But, researching that reply started me thinking about Natalia.

Firstly, has she retired? It's just that I heard her name mentioned as being somebody's coach recently. (Or is this a different Natalia Popova?)

Secondly, if she has not retired, is she still eligible to compete, given the disputed status of her homeland (as I said in the quote, she is from the Crimea)?

What are the protocols for skaters from disputed territories? With Taiwan, we see them competing under a special Olympic sanctioned name and flag. But, what about other disputed territories?

Can the skaters elect what country they represent?

Although they don't have any skaters (as far as I know), this is what happens athletes in Northern Cyprus. They can choose to represent Cyprus, or represent Turkey.

But, is that the normal procedure?

Through a quirk in the way Ireland was partitioned, the same happens here in Northern Ireland. We can choose whether to represent Great Britain, or represent Ireland. For example, Jenna McCorkell and Neil Wilson represented Great Britain, while Sam McAllister represents Ireland.

From what I remember, choosing a country is also what happened in the first full Olympic cycle after the USSR broke up. But, that is a different situation, as that was a country breaking up into constituent parts.

For that matter, is this still the protocol for when a country splits up or part of it gains independence? I didn't pay much attention when Serbia and Montenegro went their separate ways, and I don't know of any athletes from South Sudan!

And, if they do end up representing a different to what they were before, do the skaters get put under embargo? I would hope not, given that this is not a "normal" situation!

A lot of questions, but they are all on a similar vein.

PLEASE, do not let this turn into a heated debate on international relations! I just want to know the answers!

CaroLiza_fan
 
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