- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
Reactions and criticism of judging by Network commentators - NBC, CBC, BBC, etc
- Thread starter sowcow
- Start date
You still didn't address the no boost for the two that was in contention this Olympics. How convenient that out of the three that were really in contention, that only Adelina got a HUGE boost and the other two pretty much got none. Yuna got a big boost last time around right? So what happened this time? Oh right those two judges! lol.
Those two judges. No Nine Tails. All the judges gave Sotnikova big pcs.....And you haven't answered the big PCS difference for Gracie. Within a space of a week! But its only fair to talk about Adelina.
And if the PCS are already HUGE. There's only so much further the PCS can go. That's what happened to Patrick Chan.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2011
Speaking of insults, there were many insults to Mao Asada clearly evident in the protocols of not only Adelina but also two skaters whose surnames rhyme with "Old" and "Ipnitskaia". Oh well. 
You make it sound like it's just all Yuna fans going crazy over absolutely reason. I get it. It would be convenient if that were the case. And also, admittedly there are a lot of crazed fans making it worse, so it would be easy to be dismissive about the outcry. But there is a legitimate concern here.
Two questions. One. Do you think if Yuna Kim skated for Russia, she and Adelina would've received the same scores they did in Sochi? What about Carolina? Would Mao be placed behind Adelina on by almost 8 points FS after landing 8 triples? Sure, Mao botched a couple of things, but Adelina botched at least one landing.
And two. Is it really okay for a wife of the Russian figure skating federation to be one of the judges for an Olympics happening in Russia? Wouldn't objectivity at least be questioned? Even if Adelina's win was 100% deserved, how would this not look fishy? Is this perfectly okay?
Are you really trying to justify Adelina's ridiculously HUGE PCS boost (and I'm not even talking about her inflated TES)? She had the same PCS as Yuna and even more than Carolina. That is NOT acceptable. Stop comparing her scores to other skaters. I really doubt Gold would've gotten almost 75 PCS even if she went clean. I'm so done with figure skating
I thought Adelina's PCS were to large. However I thought her TES mark was fair. And I don't think she's such a terrible PCS skater, that the margin should have been so low that she deserved to lose here.
I frankly am not in love with Kim's program. And many people felt she was tepid. Others brilliant. Guess what Performance/Components are subjective. What's brilliant beautiful gorgeous for some, is less for others.
YEs there are people who thought Kim deserved to win. There were also commentators I'm told the Australian, British, Johnny/Tara. Who guess what thought Sotnikova deserved it. For many the issue was the gap. But once the protocols were viewed, the win became justifiable.
There are also MANY who are wuz robbing Kostner. But Kim fans ignore that, I know Todd Eldridge, Ryan Bradley. They all think Kostner should have been the champion. Not Yu-na. Not Sotnikova but Kostner.
Once again, Kim wanted to win this. She wanted to be the undisputed champ? She should have gone in there with an undeniable base value. She didn't and she left it up to the subjective parts.
If I'm going to go back and say who would I give this to based on artistry. I might very well say Kostner myself.
Those two judges. No Nine Tails. All the judges gave Sotnikova big pcs.....And you haven't answered the big PCS difference for Gracie. Within a space of a week! But its only fair to talk about Adelina.
Sorry not true.
Judge 8:
8.5
8.5
9.25
9.5
9.25
Average is 9 compared to 9.65 from Judge 7. That's a huge variance. I don't need to talk about Gracie because Gracie wasn't in the top 3 in contention and her scores were how many points out of first place? Judges only really needed to fudge the Caro and Yuna's scores. And you are talking about Men's competition also which did not have these same set of dubious judges.
You are the one really avoiding the real issue and bring in elements that are no where near as significant as Yuna and Caro not getting the bump like that of Adelina. Also, why did not Yuna get the bump she got in Vancouver. If not as much she should have gotten some right?
Um, Kim got a huge PCS boost in Vancover. Just as big as Adelina got. 66- to 71. And Kim got a pretty big PCS boost from earlier in this season her to 71 to the 74. Did Sotnikova get a higher PCS boost.
Yes, But then again your getting 71 in PCS, there's only so high your pcs can go. At the end of the day, if Sotnikova's pcs boost had been the same as Kostner' and as the same as Yu-na got here. She'd have still won.
I wasn't even talking about Kostner or the placement. I was simply talking about how Adelina's scores were WAY too high. Also, the protocols didn't do anything. As a matter of fact, it only made things worse cause now we can see that some judges were completely biased. One judge apparently thought Adelina's performance was the greatest of all time... lol. I just don't think she deserved to get over 74.5 in the SP and almost 150 in the FS.
Did you think it was right for a judge to mark Sotnikova +3GOE on everything except the stepout? Even Yu-na has never gotten that many +3's before.
Ugh, you're trying that again, trying to make this whole thing like it's fangirl delusions so that it would look like the scores were perfectly justified and there were no issues with them at all, that it's all these "Kim fans" crying wolf or whatever.
If the scores were that justified, seriously, could you answer these?
Do you think if Yuna Kim skated for Russia, she and Adelina would've received the same scores they did in Sochi? What about Carolina? Would Mao be placed behind Adelina on by almost 8 points FS after landing 8 triples?
Is it really okay for a wife of the Russian figure skating federation to be one of the judges for an Olympics happening in Russia? Wouldn't--shouldn't--objectivity at least be questioned?
These are legitimate questions. Stop trying to brush them off like they're crazy ramblings by fanatics. If Adelina's scores were that justified, it shouldn't be a problem to look into the judging a little bit, should it?
And I don't think Sotnikova deserved 149 in the long either. But I didn't think Kim deserved 150 in the long in Vancover. Inflation happens at the Olympics.
I would have probably given Adelina 71 in PCS. And Kept Kim's Pcs the same, and maybe raised Kostner's. But guess what. Sotnikova-still wins.
That's what you folks are forgetting. I'm not disagreeing that Sotnikova's PCS were maybe to high. I disagree with higher PCS than Kostner. I thought Sot's PCS were higher by maybe 2 points. But NOT five points. Which is what Yu-na would have needed in order to win.
And the objectivity of all of the judges representing nations is questionable. They are all friendly close with each other because its a small community. The Japanese judge called over Hanyu while the judge was still at the boards! Its considered the job of the nation's judge to advocate for their skater.
Its ridiculous. But the Russian judge-no matter who the Russian judge was going to vote for Adelina. Just as the Korean judge was voting for Kim. And the Italian Judge- Kostner all the way.
So you now admit she got the bigger boost. At least that's good. But my argument doesn't end with just the PCS but GOE as well.
Look at Judge 7's GOE. Pretty much all element had +3 except the step out. No overscoring still? I mean just look at this from Judge 7:
GOE:
3
3
3
3
3
-1 (the combo jump where she stepped out)
3
3
3
2
3
PCS:
9.5
9.5
9.75
9.75
9.75
I believe she's using a technique known as gaslighting to discredit all of us who have legitimate concerns
Here's a breakdown of the scoring....
Adelina had a 5 point edge in base value in the LP, Yuna a couple points in the SP. Questionable levels were given on the step sequences, which brought Adelina's overall base value advantage back to ~5 points.
The rigging starts in GOE ... look at the +2 and +3 across the board for Adelina...more towards +1 and +2 side for Yuna on a lot of elements. Adelina is a better spinner, but Yuna is a better jumper. Adelina gets awesome height, but not the same ice coverage, flow, and air position as Yuna. GOE riggage allowed Adelina to overcome her step-out and still maintain ~5 point lead. Without the shady GOE and step levels, Yuna and Sotnikova would have had a similar TES score over the whole competition.
Then you look at the components. Adelina consistently scored in the low 60s. Then once she won the Russian national championship, she went up to high 60s at Euros and almost 75 at Olympics. Just those two times after winning the Russian title and clinching her Olympic ticket, and her score went up 10-15 points almost overnight. The components scores should be much in favor of Yuna, but instead they were basically tied ... only 0.09 difference.
Anyone who says "Adelina 7 triples, Yuna 6, Adelina wins" is being disingenuous.
Adelina had a 5 point edge in base value in the LP, Yuna a couple points in the SP. Questionable levels were given on the step sequences, which brought Adelina's overall base value advantage back to ~5 points.
The rigging starts in GOE ... look at the +2 and +3 across the board for Adelina...more towards +1 and +2 side for Yuna on a lot of elements. Adelina is a better spinner, but Yuna is a better jumper. Adelina gets awesome height, but not the same ice coverage, flow, and air position as Yuna. GOE riggage allowed Adelina to overcome her step-out and still maintain ~5 point lead. Without the shady GOE and step levels, Yuna and Sotnikova would have had a similar TES score over the whole competition.
Then you look at the components. Adelina consistently scored in the low 60s. Then once she won the Russian national championship, she went up to high 60s at Euros and almost 75 at Olympics. Just those two times after winning the Russian title and clinching her Olympic ticket, and her score went up 10-15 points almost overnight. The components scores should be much in favor of Yuna, but instead they were basically tied ... only 0.09 difference.
Anyone who says "Adelina 7 triples, Yuna 6, Adelina wins" is being disingenuous.
you are delusional. In SP, adelina's PCS is almost same as YuNa.
and YuNa was undersocred in GOE.
remember. Sotnikova is not a true champion.
And I think you just identified the Russian judge But once again-one judge. I'm sure there was super high GOE on everything too for Yu-na from the Korean judge. Guess what there wasn't even a Russian judge on the short program panel.
I think the judging system needs work yes. But once again, it wasn't just one judge.
And I don't think Kim was underscored in GOE. I thought she rightfully got higher GOE for her 3lutz/ toe. Her last 3lutz, was shaky didn't deserve high GOE. Her spins, aren't the level of Gold/Yulia's or Adelina's. And I don't think Kim's salchow is at the level of her 3flip/3lutz.
And as for if Kim was Russian would she have won. I don't think it would have mattered if Kim was Russian-if Adelina was still Russian. Because I don't think they were somehow going to score Adelina super low for Kim. Either one wins-Russian wins. Look at Sarah or Michelle in Salt Lake. Or Tara/Michelle in Nagano. In fact many are comparing this to a Tara Michelle situation.
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